Would the MW consider kicking out Hawaii

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » February 13th, 2018, 5:15 pm

Just wondering aloud. Hawaii is not a full member, how hard would it be to kick them out and invite another school with a closer geographic footprint who could play all sports?

oleblu111 · Post by **oleblu111** » February 13th, 2018, 5:19 pm

Who would you want to invite ?

Post by **ProvoAggie** » February 13th, 2018, 7:20 pm

oleblu111 wrote: ↑
February 13th, 2018, 5:19 pm
Who would you want to invite ?

I'd take NMSU. The past few years they've been better than Hawaii in Football and they have a great Basketball team.

utaggies · Post by **utaggies** » February 13th, 2018, 8:15 pm

When I read about the possible expulsion of a MWC member (and typically this is about expelling SJS) I ask the question, "On what grounds?" The MWC by-laws speak of the procedure for expelling a member for "violations of the code", but the "code" is not defined. I do not believe that Hawaii or anyone else can be expelled because of lack of performance or distance. However, schools can voluntarily withdraw from the conference.

Having said that, if Hawaii was no longer in the conference I would not invite any team unless the $ upside is greater than the cost. Like it or not, the only reasonable choice as a new member is BYU.

USUMAE · Post by **USUMAE** » February 13th, 2018, 8:29 pm

utaggies wrote: ↑
February 13th, 2018, 8:15 pm
When I read about the possible expulsion of a MWC member (and typically this is about expelling SJS) I ask the question, "On what grounds?" The MWC by-laws speak of the procedure for expelling a member for "violations of the code", but the "code" is not defined. I do not believe that Hawaii or anyone else can be expelled because of lack of performance or distance. However, schools can voluntarily withdraw from the conference.

Having said that, if Hawaii was no longer in the conference I would not invite any team unless the $ upside is greater than the cost. Like it or not, the only reasonable choice as a new member is BYU.

Joking about the code aside, if it is just a pure money decision BYU makes sense. I don't think BYU would want to be back. It'd be a lot of crow to choke down and I think they like being in a conference full of religious schools. Even if they wanted to be back, I doubt they'd bring enough money to make the drama they bring worth it.

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » February 13th, 2018, 8:50 pm

utaggies wrote: ↑
February 13th, 2018, 8:15 pm
When I read about the possible expulsion of a MWC member (and typically this is about expelling SJS) I ask the question, "On what grounds?" The MWC by-laws speak of the procedure for expelling a member for "violations of the code", but the "code" is not defined. I do not believe that Hawaii or anyone else can be expelled because of lack of performance or distance. However, schools can voluntarily withdraw from the conference.

Having said that, if Hawaii was no longer in the conference I would not invite any team unless the $ upside is greater than the cost. Like it or not, the only reasonable choice as a new member is BYU.

Unless your quavering self-respect bucked up sufficiently to empower a lusty "ah, hell no!" because there are things even rats won't do.

Post by **ProvoAggie** » February 13th, 2018, 9:46 pm

utaggies wrote: ↑
February 13th, 2018, 8:15 pm
When I read about the possible expulsion of a MWC member (and typically this is about expelling SJS) I ask the question, "On what grounds?" The MWC by-laws speak of the procedure for expelling a member for "violations of the code", but the "code" is not defined. I do not believe that Hawaii or anyone else can be expelled because of lack of performance or distance. However, schools can voluntarily withdraw from the conference.

Having said that, if Hawaii was no longer in the conference I would not invite any team unless the $ upside is greater than the cost. Like it or not, the only reasonable choice as a new member is BYU.

Does that apply to affiliate members as well. I can understand making it difficult to expel a full member but Hawaii is only an affiliate.

utaggies · Post by **utaggies** » February 13th, 2018, 9:55 pm

ProvoAggie wrote: ↑
February 13th, 2018, 9:46 pm

utaggies wrote: ↑
February 13th, 2018, 8:15 pm
When I read about the possible expulsion of a MWC member (and typically this is about expelling SJS) I ask the question, "On what grounds?" The MWC by-laws speak of the procedure for expelling a member for "violations of the code", but the "code" is not defined. I do not believe that Hawaii or anyone else can be expelled because of lack of performance or distance. However, schools can voluntarily withdraw from the conference.

Having said that, if Hawaii was no longer in the conference I would not invite any team unless the $ upside is greater than the cost. Like it or not, the only reasonable choice as a new member is BYU.
Does that apply to affiliate members as well. I can understand making it difficult to expel a full member but Hawaii is only an affiliate.

http://themw.com/sports/2017/6/9/handbook.aspx?id=838&

This is the only link I could find on the MWC by-laws. As far as I can tell, there are no different rules that apply to expelling "affiliate members" as opposed to "members". The only distinction between the two classes seems to be that affiliate members can't vote.

AGGZILLA · Post by **AGGZILLA** » February 14th, 2018, 10:16 am

I agree with adding BYU. I know a lot here would be against it, but they are one of only a few that would enhance the conference. NMSU does absolutely nothing for us. I would rather take UTEP, which is the same region and has more upside than the sags. If we couldn't get BYU, I would go after Houston or SMU. This conference is would benefit from a presence in Texas.

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » February 14th, 2018, 11:07 am

I'm only in favor of keeping our existing footprint. Adding Texas schools smacks of the WAC 16 debacle.

The only noise I'm hearing... and I'm not sure why we're hearing it, is that ybu and possibly Gonzaga would be interested in coming in for Oly sports only. The Wet Coat Conference isn't a big money maker, with trips out to Provo or up to Spokane, doesn't make much economic sense when you are a small Jesuit school like San Francisco or San Diego. I suppose adding the whY makes sense for Oly sports because we could split the conference like we do FB.

Madmartigan · Post by **Madmartigan** » February 14th, 2018, 12:40 pm

I'd be in favor of booting San Jose first. They are perennially the worst team in men's hoops and football. They also have the worst facilities and support in the MW.

Jjoey53 · Post by **Jjoey53** » February 14th, 2018, 7:10 pm

I would prefer St. Mary’s to BYU. Plus if Zaga and Gaels came to MW, that would put the zoobs in a major predicament.

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gomretat · Post by **gomretat** » February 14th, 2018, 9:54 pm

Cant think of a team lower on my list to add than the Cougies

thegreendalegelf · Post by **thegreendalegelf** » February 15th, 2018, 1:14 pm

For me, the two schools that make the most sense, BYU and NDSU. One has a big fan base and past success, the other is a growing dominate program that will get a lot of attention when they eventually jump to FBS.

Problem 1: BYU pride. They won't rejoin the MW unless they have to because they don't want to admit that they are not at Utah's level but at Utah State's level. (look at their record against each since 2010, the numbers speak for themselves.)

Problem 2: NDSU can succeed in FCS for a while. Its better to be great at FCS then less than ok at FBS. Distance is a small issue for NDSU but not that big of a problem, if Hawaii can make it work and WV can be in the Big 12, NDSU can be in a conference with us.

I'm not holding my breath but this is what I want.

utaggies · Post by **utaggies** » February 15th, 2018, 3:57 pm

In response to a couple of comments. The “noise” about BYU and Gonzaga possibly joining the MWC seems to be from a single BYU blogger. He bemoans BYU’s inability to access the NCAA tourney through an at-large berth because of the generally horrible teams in the WCC. I’ve seen no credible evidence that anyone else shares his viewpoint.

As to inviting NDSU, that would be a disaster for travel. Logan is a tough destination. Can you imagine traveling to Fargo?

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » February 15th, 2018, 6:42 pm

utaggies wrote: ↑
February 15th, 2018, 3:57 pm
In response to a couple of comments. The “noise” about BYU and Gonzaga possibly joining the MWC seems to be from a single BYU blogger. He bemoans BYU’s inability to access the NCAA tourney through an at-large berth because of the generally horrible teams in the WCC. I’ve seen no credible evidence that anyone else shares his viewpoint.

As to inviting NDSU, that would be a disaster for travel. Logan is a tough destination. Can you imagine traveling to Fargo?

I didn't hear the blogger noise... my sources are a little more solid. Those who know me know I have family with some connections. With that said, they haven't been right about much in the past, so...

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » February 15th, 2018, 8:27 pm

Here's a novel idea. There is no way to kick schools out without "cause". But, for arguments sake, let's say that Hawaii and San Jose State both leave, for reasons about which we could speculate, and we replace them with.............

NO ONE.

I have long felt that the fad of expanding conferences to 12+ was a VERY bad idea. The ideal size for a conference is 10. You can play every other team in the conference every year in football, and still have three out-of-conference games; an FCS, a body bag, and a cross conference or independent home and home series. Same thing in basketball, every team, home and home, every year.

Nah, makes too much sense....

Oh, and "...BUT THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!...." How much money does that REALLY bring in for the MWC? I suspect not that much, and it has the potential to really screw things up for the higher ranked team.

NavyBlueAggie · Post by **NavyBlueAggie** » February 15th, 2018, 9:35 pm

I believe the BIG 12 applied for a waver to hold a conference championship game with fewer than 12 schools in the league, but then that's a P 5 conference flexing it's muscles. . However much sense a 10 team league makes, I believe larger leagues are the wave of the future and todays reality. .

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » February 15th, 2018, 10:28 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑
February 15th, 2018, 9:35 pm
I believe the BIG 12 applied for a waver to hold a conference championship game with fewer than 12 schools in the league, but then that's a P 5 conference flexing it's muscles. . However much sense a 10 team league makes, I believe larger leagues are the wave of the future and todays reality. .

The current greater-than-twelve-team megaconferences have only existed for about three years. Historically, no conference bigger than 12 schools has survived long term. The Southern Conference (predecessor of the SEC and the ACC) and the 16 team WAC tore themselves apart with internal conflicts. Fundamentals don't change. I think the only thing keeping some big conferences together right now are NCAA rules which discourage formation of new conferences. I think that under pressure from big programs anxious to stop sharing revenue with bottom feeders in their own conferences, the rules will change, and one or more new power conferences will eventually form. But I'm just some random guy on a fan board.

NavyBlueAggie · Post by **NavyBlueAggie** » February 16th, 2018, 6:57 am

LK, you may be a random poster but your arguments are viable. Unfortunately the financial arms race seems to dictate more and more T V exposure at the expense of the fan in the stands. I wonder where the game we used to know will end up, but I can't see a happy face on the current trajectory of college sports.

BigBlueDart · Post by **BigBlueDart** » February 16th, 2018, 9:02 am

Very valid points, LK. I personally like the 12-team conference with a CCG, at least for football. Think of it as 6-team conferences being paired with each other. But yeah, going to 14+ teams is getting a bit unwieldy. I mean, who is in the B1G these days? I can't keep track anymore!

Ideally I think that conferences should be in the 10-12 team range, maybe even just 9 teams. They should be regional and share some history or culture, or something else that ties them together besides just being big. I really like the idea of all of Division 1 being divided into three sub-leauges where teams can be promoted/demoted over the course of a few years due to performance, and maybe other factors (budget, stadium size, etc.). I know that won't happen, but having a western conference that is basically the Pac-12, MWC, and Big West (maybe minus a few teams) as a single conference divided into three levels... well that's just interesting to me even if it is complicated.

JSHarvey · Post by **JSHarvey** » February 16th, 2018, 9:28 am

Given the past 50 years of history (and the past two year's on field performances) I get very nervous when people start talking about kicking teams out of the conference.

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » February 16th, 2018, 9:58 am

BigBlueDart wrote: ↑
February 16th, 2018, 9:02 am
Very valid points, LK. I personally like the 12-team conference with a CCG, at least for football. Think of it as 6-team conferences being paired with each other. But yeah, going to 14+ teams is getting a bit unwieldy. I mean, who is in the B1G these days? I can't keep track anymore!

Ideally I think that conferences should be in the 10-12 team range, maybe even just 9 teams. They should be regional and share some history or culture, or something else that ties them together besides just being big. I really like the idea of all of Division 1 being divided into three sub-leauges where teams can be promoted/demoted over the course of a few years due to performance, and maybe other factors (budget, stadium size, etc.). I know that won't happen, but having a western conference that is basically the Pac-12, MWC, and Big West (maybe minus a few teams) as a single conference divided into three levels... well that's just interesting to me even if it is complicated.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and one of the key events that triggered the modern movement of conference realignment was SMU getting the death penalty and the subsequent implosion of the Southwest Conference. The geographic and psychic space previously occupied by the Southwest Conference is one of those vacuums demanding to be filled. Texas and its suburb Oklahoma are too big, too rich, and too self important to not have a conference all their own. Also, the breakup of the Texas / Texas A&M rivalry is one of the great travesties of modern football. You could reconstitute a very attractive, compact, and wealthy conference with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Texas Christian, and throw in any two of: Rice, Tulsa, UTEP, SMU, Texas State, UTSA.

Imagine the tectonic shift that would occur if a New Southwest Conference were to re-form.

LKGates · Post by **LKGates** » February 16th, 2018, 9:59 am

JSHarvey wrote: ↑
February 16th, 2018, 9:28 am
Given the past 50 years of history (and the past two year's on field performances) I get very nervous when people start talking about kicking teams out of the conference.

Amen, brother.

Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » February 17th, 2018, 10:42 am

1. No kicking out for lack of performance. If we allow it now, it could happen to us one day.
2. No adding teams for temporary performance improvements. Temporary swings can be us buying high. And then getting a 3-9 school once they join.

3.Add schools that are positives financially, add schools that have fans. That match our regional foot print.

4. JFW

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » March 1st, 2018, 11:55 am

this topic deserves to be revisited. Hawaii... join in all sports or get the boot? Go away? Or no way!

WAaggieFan · Post by **WAaggieFan** » March 1st, 2018, 11:57 am

Hopefully the MW isn’t considering kicking out USU based on performance....

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ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » March 1st, 2018, 12:01 pm

WAaggieFan wrote: ↑
March 1st, 2018, 11:57 am
Hopefully the MW isn’t considering kicking out USU based on performance....

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