USU to the Big 12

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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by AggieFBObsession » July 23rd, 2021, 3:00 pm

People forget in these conference realignment scenarios that you're always going to have teams rise to the top and teams fall to the bottom. When you play two revenue generating sports that have wins associated with the outcome, it's inevitable that you'll have teams that are "losers" or "outcasts" or whatever you want to call them. In order for the Alabamas of the world to have someone to play there must be someone who loses. It's silly to me that money and viewers dictates this and regional rivalries doesn't. Ultimately, for the fans to be interested, there must be regional rivalries, otherwise, at least I get to a point where I just don't care. And it's no longer a rivalry and no longer interesting when you have one Alabama of a conference getting most of the money for winning most of the time. In short, the college sports world is losing its appeal for me, but I'll hang on for now.

Along the same note, did anyone notice the pro soccer teams in Europe trying to create their own league? Didn't they learn the same lesson as I'm trying to illustrate above? Even if you put the Real Madrids in the same league, you're always going to have teams that end up losing most of the time, even if they were once the cream of their crop.

It's all quite short sighted and extremely juvenile and silly if you ask me to be thinking in this manner that the journalists write about. They're not seeing the forest for the trees. Greed, greed and more greed and complete disregard for all fans of the college sports level.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by NavyBlueAggie » July 23rd, 2021, 3:30 pm

You hit a thread with me AggieFBO. Seems at some time the money will runs the game,, the boosters eventually begin to loose that donation spark, and it boils down to money, and diminishing returns from the T V folksas the market is saturated.

I also expect the non rev and Title 9 sports to go the way of the whooping crane and turn into simple college club sports as the black vortex of FB & BB push other athletic venues into the pit of no consequence. Just a matter of time, wait for it, that train is coming down the tracks.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by AggieFBObsession » July 23rd, 2021, 3:39 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote:
July 23rd, 2021, 3:30 pm
You hit a thread with me AggieFBO. Seems at some time the money will runs the game,, the boosters eventually begin to loose that donation spark, and it boils down to money, and diminishing returns from the T V folksas the market is saturated.

I also expect the non rev and Title 9 sports to go the way of the whooping crane and turn into simple college club sports as the black vortex of FB & BB push other athletic venues into the pit of no consequence. Just a matter of time, wait for it, that train is coming down the tracks.
I can't imagine that Alabama fans are too excited about traveling to Norman, Oklahoma, but I could be wrong. And I can't imagine that Texas A&M fans want to be in the same conference with Texas again. It makes no sense to me, but who am I to question the greed?



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by NavyBlueAggie » July 23rd, 2021, 4:56 pm

AggieFBObsession wrote:
July 23rd, 2021, 3:39 pm
NavyBlueAggie wrote:
July 23rd, 2021, 3:30 pm
You hit a thread with me AggieFBO. Seems at some time the money will runs the game,, the boosters eventually begin to loose that donation spark, and it boils down to money, and diminishing returns from the T V folksas the market is saturated.

I also expect the non rev and Title 9 sports to go the way of the whooping crane and turn into simple college club sports as the black vortex of FB & BB push other athletic venues into the pit of no consequence. Just a matter of time, wait for it, that train is coming down the tracks.
I can't imagine that Alabama fans are too excited about traveling to Norman, Oklahoma, but I could be wrong. And I can't imagine that Texas A&M fans want to be in the same conference with Texas again. It makes no sense to me, but who am I to question the greed?
GREED. Absolutely spot on here!!! At some juncture, the tax man will begin looking at collegiate sports venues and the profit the schools benefit, especially the so called P5. Suspect these institutions will not go un-examined by the tax man.

The T V revenues, sales of corporate logos in the arena or stadium, booster donations (and how are the funds spent?), premium sales on site and in the malls, and the tax exempt higher educational walls begin to crumble.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by Zaggie07 » July 23rd, 2021, 10:50 pm


tysteve20 wrote:I’ve seen this a few places. Don’t think it’ll shake out like this but interesting to consider all the options.

Image

I also like the attempted big 16 logos
I know this is just some random guy's idea, but LA Tech, Rice, and UNT? Seriously? I know geographically it would be less spread out with the Florida schools, but those three bring less than USU, SDSU, UNLV, UNR, possibly even FSU and UNM. Hawaii would be a real challenge.

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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by OrangeCountyAggie » July 24th, 2021, 12:36 am

Zaggie07 wrote:
July 23rd, 2021, 10:50 pm
tysteve20 wrote:I’ve seen this a few places. Don’t think it’ll shake out like this but interesting to consider all the options.

Image

I also like the attempted big 16 logos
I know this is just some random guy's idea, but LA Tech, Rice, and UNT? Seriously? I know geographically it would be less spread out with the Florida schools, but those three bring less than USU, SDSU, UNLV, UNR, possibly even FSU and UNM. Hawaii would be a real challenge.

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I'm firmly in the camp that the PAC 12 wants the Las Vegas market (and the NFL stadium). Plus, SDSU is attractive enough of a market and their sports are good enough to garner consideration. If the Pac 12 decides to go 16, UNLV and SDSU are probably invited. I could (maybe) see Hawaii for the cachet and the ability for schools who play there to get an extra game (assuming they build a pro-bowl quality stadium).

Bosie and BYU will NEVER be invited to the Pac 12 - and I'm not saying that because I hate them. It's an established fact.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by OrangeCountyAggie » July 24th, 2021, 12:55 am

Assuming the remaining BIG 12 schools hold together and the conference looks to add teams, my pitch for USU getting an invite would be:

1. We are consistently one of the most competitive schools in the MWC.
2. USU would be a great traveling partner and natural rival to BYU (should they also be a target of the B12).
3. We have the best facilities in the MWC, the most passionate fans, a well-respected academic institution in an insanely beautiful location.
4. We have loyal, deep-pocketed donors and have proven the ability to consistently upgrade facilities. In fact, USU's athletic department has been on an upward trajectory since the early 2000s.

5. We would be willing to take a much smaller portion of the allotted conference revenues for the first (five) years of membership (or something to that effect).

Would this be enough?



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by bpd » July 24th, 2021, 7:40 am

OrangeCountyAggie wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 12:55 am
Assuming the remaining BIG 12 schools hold together and the conference looks to add teams, my pitch for USU getting an invite would be:

1. We are consistently one of the most competitive schools in the MWC.
2. USU would be a great traveling partner and natural rival to BYU (should they also be a target of the B12).
3. We have the best facilities in the MWC, the most passionate fans, a well-respected academic institution in an insanely beautiful location.
4. We have loyal, deep-pocketed donors and have proven the ability to consistently upgrade facilities. In fact, USU's athletic department has been on an upward trajectory since the early 2000s.

5. We would be willing to take a much smaller portion of the allotted conference revenues for the first (five) years of membership (or something to that effect).

Would this be enough?
I think all these are wrong except #2 and maybe 5.
Last edited by bpd on July 24th, 2021, 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by BLUERUFiO » July 24th, 2021, 11:25 am

I have no illusion that we will be moving up in conference realignment.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by apo » July 24th, 2021, 1:49 pm

BLUERUFiO wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 11:25 am
I have no illusion that we will be moving up in conference realignment.
I expect we’ll likely be reached out to in the next few days about also joining the SEC. They need us.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » July 24th, 2021, 2:08 pm

apo wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 1:49 pm
BLUERUFiO wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 11:25 am
I have no illusion that we will be moving up in conference realignment.
I expect we’ll likely be reached out to in the next few days about also joining the SEC. They need us.
I say we go, but only if we can keep our own radio network and get a bigger share of revenues. We shouldn’t have to carry the conference.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by Slim80 » July 24th, 2021, 2:30 pm

bpd wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 7:40 am
OrangeCountyAggie wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 12:55 am
Assuming the remaining BIG 12 schools hold together and the conference looks to add teams, my pitch for USU getting an invite would be:

1. We are consistently one of the most competitive schools in the MWC.
2. USU would be a great traveling partner and natural rival to BYU (should they also be a target of the B12).
3. We have the best facilities in the MWC, the most passionate fans, a well-respected academic institution in an insanely beautiful location.
4. We have loyal, deep-pocketed donors and have proven the ability to consistently upgrade facilities. In fact, USU's athletic department has been on an upward trajectory since the early 2000s.

5. We would be willing to take a much smaller portion of the allotted conference revenues for the first (five) years of membership (or something to that effect).

Would this be enough?
I think all these are wrong except #2 and maybe 5.
I know that USU will never get an invite but, NO! NO! NO!! Stop with the byu crap!!! #2 is the most incorrect on that list.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by Gljflyfloater » July 24th, 2021, 3:02 pm

Since Utah and TCU left the Mountain West BYU has wanted to find a P5 conference. It never happens. The California schools will play them but conference affiliation is a whole other story. Academics, alumni, students, university board of directors and University presidents all get involved. In the Big 12 student protests against BYU had a major impact on BYU’s conference appeal. The only conference that might possibly consider BYU is the Mountain West and BYU seems to prefer independence. Suggesting BYU can waltz into a P5 conference is doubtful and highly unlikely.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by Gljflyfloater » July 24th, 2021, 3:20 pm

Since TCU and UTAH left the Mountain West Conference BYU has aggressively and openly sought P5 conference affiliation. Only to be soundly rebuffed every time.The reason isn’t the quality of their athletic programs rather it relates to to LDS church and their policies. The PAC 12 will gladly play BYU but conference affiliation is at another level. Conference affiliation involves academics, students, alumni, boards of directors and university presidents. I few years ago when Nebraska, and Texas AM left the Big 12 for greener pasture BYU thought that this was there chance for athletic recognition. Student protests broke out at Iowa State and other universities. In the highly charged political world that we live in BYU just isn’t going to reflect modern university values. Sorry but that’s life. The only conference that might have interest in BYU is the Mountain West and BYU seems to prefer independence. The possibility of BYU becoming a P5 school is doubtful and highly unlikely.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by OrangeCountyAggie » July 24th, 2021, 5:21 pm

bpd wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 7:40 am
OrangeCountyAggie wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 12:55 am
Assuming the remaining BIG 12 schools hold together and the conference looks to add teams, my pitch for USU getting an invite would be:

1. We are consistently one of the most competitive schools in the MWC.
2. USU would be a great traveling partner and natural rival to BYU (should they also be a target of the B12).
3. We have the best facilities in the MWC, the most passionate fans, a well-respected academic institution in an insanely beautiful location.
4. We have loyal, deep-pocketed donors and have proven the ability to consistently upgrade facilities. In fact, USU's athletic department has been on an upward trajectory since the early 2000s.

5. We would be willing to take a much smaller portion of the allotted conference revenues for the first (five) years of membership (or something to that effect).

Would this be enough?
I think all these are wrong except #2 and maybe 5.
Great! Then let's play those hands.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by MWCFAN12 » July 26th, 2021, 5:49 pm

Conference realignment over the last 20 years has been very kind to Utah State. Let's hope that trend continues.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by NavyBlueAggie » July 27th, 2021, 6:48 am

Since BYU voluntarily left the MWC for what they thought would be an upgrade to their institutional athletic prestige, not much has happened to support that step.

I believe the school in Provo had a good fit with the old MWC and chose to roll the dice on an invitation to a P5 Conference. I also believe their reputation precedes them as a demanding school that makes demands similar to BSu, only swinging a larger cudgel. Not impressive to those collegiate professionals really in the know.

Additionally, I believe the school in Provo beings fans locally, media coverage and booster sympathy, all in their favor. If one digs a bit deeper in the MWC history, a verifiable animosity exists toward that Provo school. This attitude, plus not playing on Sunday will surely exclude them from advancement in P 5 alignment.

I could also be up in the night with my opinions, but I've been around a while and have made some reasonable connections which have led me to form my opinions.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by USU78 » July 27th, 2021, 7:20 am

MWCFAN12 wrote:
July 26th, 2021, 5:49 pm
Conference realignment over the last 20 years has been very kind to Utah State. Let's hope that trend continues.
Independence to Sunbelt to WAC to MWC. Excellent point. Gotta wear shades!
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by ViAggie » July 27th, 2021, 9:19 am

Texas lawmakers may throw a wrench into this:

“Are the University of Texas and the University of Oklahoma another step closer to taking their Red River rivalry to the Southeastern Conference? The latest statement from both universities makes it appear that way. On Monday, UT and OU issued a joint statement explaining that the schools notified their current conference, the Big 12, that they would not be renewing their media rights deal after it expires in 2025. The move is considered the first and significant formal step in the process of departing the Big 12. The statement didn’t name the SEC, but the timing adds up.”

“Just last week, ESPN confirmed that Texas and Oklahoma could make their move to the SEC official in a matter of weeks. But not everybody wants to see this happen. A group of Texas lawmakers recently filed legislation that would prohibit Texas public colleges from switching their affiliations with collegiate athletic conferences without the legislature’s approval
– ABC13 Texas.

I doubt this legislation goes anywhere, but it would be interesting if passed.


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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by ViAggie » July 27th, 2021, 9:21 am

It's official, Oklahoma and Texas request membership in the SEC: https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ip-request

Ess just got real.


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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by tipitup » July 27th, 2021, 9:24 am

it's kinda interesting that they are requesting an invite, when no invite has been issued, or am i just picking and choosing the information that i'm reading. it would be funny if in the end they really don't want either one of them.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by ViAggie » July 27th, 2021, 9:27 am

tipitup wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:24 am
it's kinda interesting that they are requesting an invite, when no invite has been issued, or am i just picking and choosing the information that i'm reading. it would be funny if in the end they really don't want either one of them.
A&M is still under the impression that they have veto power over any invite from a school located in their state. Apparently there is a long standing "gentlemen's agreement" that gives any school veto power to keep other in-state schools from competing. We'll see if this unofficial agreement holds up (doubt it).


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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by Aggieiester » July 27th, 2021, 9:36 am

OrangeCountyAggie wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 12:55 am
Assuming the remaining BIG 12 schools hold together and the conference looks to add teams, my pitch for USU getting an invite would be:

1. We are consistently one of the most competitive schools in the MWC.
We have done well, 1 Football conference championship game and 3 basketball conference championships, maybe it can even be argued that we are the 3rd most competitive school in the MWC behind Boise and SDSU in but due to the lack of TV's in Logan we would have to be far and away the best school in the MWC to be considered by the Big-12

2. USU would be a great traveling partner and natural rival to BYU (should they also be a target of the B12).
How good of a traveling partner are we? Yes we are only 2.5 hours away from Provo but Logan has no airport and the main road in to Logan goes through a canyon that closes multiple times during the winter. Boise would be a much better traveling partner to BYU possessing neither of those liabilities.

3. We have the best facilities in the MWC Good but not near the best,
the most passionate fansCan't fill a 25,000 seat stadium without BYU in town, a well-respected academic institution Yes but not enough, academics really doesn't matter unless you want to join the Big-10 or PAC-12 or Ivy League in an insanely beautiful locationYes but again this has nothing to do with conference realignment ***, unless Logan suddenly adds about a million people and becomes a recruiting hotbed.

4. We have loyal, deep-pocketed donors and have proven the ability to consistently upgrade facilities No where near the level that would raise any eyebrows in the Big-12, in fact way too much of our budget is supported by student and taxpayer funds.. In fact, USU's athletic department has been on an upward trajectory since the early 2000s Maybe true but how does this translate in to more money for the Big-12? That is what all of this is about..

5. We would be willing to take a much smaller portion of the allotted conference revenues for the first (five) years of membership (or something to that effect)This is a standard agreement that any school agrees to when they join a new conference so this will not separate us from anybody.

Would this be enough?
Not even close
The truth is we do a damn good job at USU for where we are and where we came from. The demographics for the city and the fan base is much closer to the Big Sky than the Big-12 yet we compete well with our peer schools, many in bigger cities and more resources but when it comes to conference realignment none of that matters. It's about what you can bring in regards to money. USU does not have a big TV audience, they are not a big enough regional power in Football and and even with the great success Basketball has enjoyed over the last three years to get the attention of the Big-12 we would have to have made deep runs in the tournament similar to Gonzaga. Unless for some reason the Big-12 decided to absorb most or all of the MWC we are not getting an invite. Here's a list of schools that without question are in line ahead of USU.
Houston
Cincinnati
Central Florida
South Florida
BYU
Boise
SDSU
UNLV (yes we are more competitive but it's all about what you bring to the table)

Schools like Tulsa, Navy, Air Force, Memphis, SMU are more than likely ahead of USU, even Colorado State gets tied to Big-12 talks although I'm not sure I completely understand that one.

*** No it doesn't matter that Kansas State is in a smaller town than USU because they are already in the conference.
Last edited by Aggieiester on July 27th, 2021, 9:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by 2004AG » July 27th, 2021, 9:36 am

tipitup wrote:it's kinda interesting that they are requesting an invite, when no invite has been issued, or am i just picking and choosing the information that i'm reading. it would be funny if in the end they really don't want either one of them.
They wouldn’t be asking if they didn’t already know the answer.


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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by ViAggie » July 27th, 2021, 9:42 am

2004AG wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:36 am
tipitup wrote:it's kinda interesting that they are requesting an invite, when no invite has been issued, or am i just picking and choosing the information that i'm reading. it would be funny if in the end they really don't want either one of them.
They wouldn’t be asking if they didn’t already know the answer.


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Exactly. I expect the Big 12 to move quickly. My initial thought was that they would go conservative, but I think they know the B1G and the PAC could be lurking, this thing could go Big East on us. Boise and SDSU should be cautious, they might have to come back with their tail between their legs twice.


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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by Aggieiester » July 27th, 2021, 9:48 am

2004AG wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:36 am
tipitup wrote:it's kinda interesting that they are requesting an invite, when no invite has been issued, or am i just picking and choosing the information that i'm reading. it would be funny if in the end they really don't want either one of them.
They wouldn’t be asking if they didn’t already know the answer.


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Exactly right, the vote will be "unanimous" this is all formality.



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by BLUERUFiO » July 27th, 2021, 9:52 am

I could see A&M voting "no" to please their fanbase.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by OKAggie » July 27th, 2021, 10:08 am

BLUERUFiO wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:52 am
I could see A&M voting "no" to please their fanbase.
Could also see South Carolina and Florida voting No to try to validate the gentlemen's agreement among SEC teams that a member school has to approve adding another school from its state. Because there's no reason for the SEC to stop at 16 if they can get Clemson and Miami and/or Florida State (which can't stay terrible forever). But even if they were to join A&M in a No vote, that's still 11-3, which passes the 75% requirement. And there aren't any programs in the other SEC states that the conference would ever consider.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by OKAggie » July 27th, 2021, 10:11 am

Living in the middle of the Big 12, I have to say that I hate this move with a passion. The Big 12 is a great conference, the fans can travel to most of the other schools for a football weekend, and it's pretty competitive. It will decimate the Big 12 and make me hate the SEC even more.

But as an Aggie fan, who remembers what asses the K-State EMAW fans were, I admit to more than a little schadenfreude. Their gravy train is running off the tracks, and there are absolutely zero P5 options for them if the Big 12 implodes (as I suspect it will). Enjoy the Missouri Valley, boys.


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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by 3rdGenAggie » July 27th, 2021, 2:16 pm

ViAggie wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:27 am
tipitup wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:24 am
it's kinda interesting that they are requesting an invite, when no invite has been issued, or am i just picking and choosing the information that i'm reading. it would be funny if in the end they really don't want either one of them.
A&M is still under the impression that they have veto power over any invite from a school located in their state. Apparently there is a long standing "gentlemen's agreement" that gives any school veto power to keep other in-state schools from competing. We'll see if this unofficial agreement holds up (doubt it).
What's A&M going to do about it when the agreement doesn't hold up? Their options are to leave the conference (not going to happen) or sue the conference and burn bridges with your conference mates regardless of the outcome (highly unlikely to be worth it).


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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » July 27th, 2021, 2:53 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 2:16 pm
ViAggie wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:27 am
tipitup wrote:
July 27th, 2021, 9:24 am
it's kinda interesting that they are requesting an invite, when no invite has been issued, or am i just picking and choosing the information that i'm reading. it would be funny if in the end they really don't want either one of them.
A&M is still under the impression that they have veto power over any invite from a school located in their state. Apparently there is a long standing "gentlemen's agreement" that gives any school veto power to keep other in-state schools from competing. We'll see if this unofficial agreement holds up (doubt it).
What's A&M going to do about it when the agreement doesn't hold up? Their options are to leave the conference (not going to happen) or sue the conference and burn bridges with your conference mates regardless of the outcome (highly unlikely to be worth it).
Why do they care so much? As an Aggie fan, I would love to be in the same conference as our in-state rivals, even though I hate them. Neither school is going anywhere. Might as well have some fun.
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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by OrangeCountyAggie » July 28th, 2021, 6:41 pm

With B12 lawers sending a cease and desist to ESPN and the ACC, maybe the MWC can slide in a poach some schools:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... onference/



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Re: USU to the Big 12

Post by ViAggie » July 29th, 2021, 8:54 am

OrangeCountyAggie wrote:
July 28th, 2021, 6:41 pm
With B12 lawers sending a cease and desist to ESPN and the ACC, maybe the MWC can slide in a poach some schools:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... onference/
the AAC and ESPN are attempting to pull a BYU/WAC style revolt with the B-12... it isn't going to work.


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