Conference Championship Game in Logan

This forum is for Football related topics only. Other topics will be moved to the appropriate forum.
Rabidchild
Posts: 2618
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 10:22 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Rabidchild » October 28th, 2015, 4:31 pm

I'd also like to know what this reporter's source is. Presumably since he's a beat writer who covers SDSU for a legitimate newspaper, he obtained his information directly from the league office or commissioner. But I'd like to see that confirmed somewhere officially.


I'm a reasonable man, get off my case.

Rabidchild
Posts: 2618
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 10:22 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Rabidchild » October 28th, 2015, 4:33 pm

treesap32 wrote:
Aglicious wrote:Well, there's the computer rankings we have been looking for verification of. The MWC uses these four selected computer rankings:

1. Anderson & Hester SDSU-68 USU-71
2. Billingsley SDSU-58 USU-61
3. Colley SDSU-56 USU-62
4. Wolfe Matrix SDSU-61 USU-59

seems like an odd collection of rankings. :headscratch:
I've never heard of any of those rankings until now. We should still host if we win out, but it may be closer than I thought.
I'd never heard of any of them other than the Colley Matrix. It looks like at least some of these were used as part of the BCS formula. If these are indeed the "selected computer rankings" used by the MW conference in determining host, I wonder why they would pick these 4 as opposed to several others that are out there, including ones that are more well known like Sagarin or Massey.


I'm a reasonable man, get off my case.

User avatar
Reynard Muldrake
Posts: 55
Joined: August 15th, 2011, 1:42 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Reynard Muldrake » October 28th, 2015, 9:31 pm

Yep, the four systems mentioned in the Union Tribune were all part of the BCS. Sagarin and Massey were the other two, and were mentioned in the Dennis Dodd CBS Sports article from last year linked above by Blue Sage.

Why would they only use four of the six BCS systems, as the UT article claims? And why would the two most well known be thrown out? Did Sagarin and Massey ask not to be used? Seems unlikely.

I'm (foolishly) hoping one of the local Utah media outlets contacts the MWC and confirms one of the two existing stories.



User avatar
Aglicious
Site Admin
Posts: 5260
Joined: January 14th, 2004, 12:00 am
Location: Vega$
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 387 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Aglicious » October 28th, 2015, 10:37 pm

The source should be the MWC bylaws which state the following:

2015-2016 Handbook & Bylaws:
6.3 Host Determination.
The game shall be played at the site of the divisional champion with the highest College Football Playoff (CFP) Selection Committee ranking. The site determination shall be made no later than the Sunday following the final week of regular‐season games, utilizing the latest available CFP poll. If one divisional champion isranked ahead of the other divisional champion in the CFP Selection Committee ranking and wins in the final weekend of the regular season, the winner in the final weekend will be declared the host.
If, in that same scenario, the divisional champion that was the highest‐ranked in the CFP poll loses in the final weekend of the regular season, a composite of selected computer rankings following the games of the final weekend of the regular season will be used to determine the host.
If no Mountain West teams are ranked in the latest available CFP Selection Committee poll, a composite of selected computer rankings following the games of the final week of Conference regular-season games will be used to determine the host. (Adopted January 2013, revised October 2014)
For further clarification, looking back at the 2014 bylaws which is referenced:
6.4.2 Host Tie-Breaker.
The Conference Football Championship Game shall be played at the site of the division champion with the highest BCS ranking (or composite BCS computer ranking if no MW teams are ranked in the final BCS Top 25) following the final week of regular-season games. Beginning in 2014, the equivalent ranking in the new postseason system shall be utilized to determine the host.
As stated above, the BCS used all 6 ranking systems; Jeff Sagarin, Anderson/Hester, Richard Billingsley, Colley Matrix, Kenneth Massey, and Dr. Peter Wolfe. To add even more confusion, the BCS actually threw out each team's highest and lowest ranking among the six, the remaining four scores were then averaged together. If these six are still used, does the MWC follow this same formula?

Since the current CFP is completely selected by a committee and computer polls have been thrown out, it makes the sentence in the 2015 bylaws all we really have to go by. "Selected computer rankings" could in fact mean just the four listed by the SD paper but like others have pointed out, not including the other two more mainstream polls that were a part of the former BSC seems a little odd to say the least.

Looks like the 2016-17 bylaws could use some added verbiage and further clarification.



User avatar
JSHarvey
Posts: 1806
Joined: April 2nd, 2013, 12:45 pm
Location: Sandy, UT
Has thanked: 633 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by JSHarvey » October 29th, 2015, 8:50 am

Unless the team can win out in conference it is all likely moot anyway. Once we get past the AFA game I'll start to worry about it.


"The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it." Lawrence Krauss

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, that's why so few people do it!" Henry Ford

Blue Sage
Posts: 525
Joined: January 28th, 2015, 6:24 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Blue Sage » October 29th, 2015, 9:12 am

Aglicious wrote:The source should be the MWC bylaws which state the following:

2015-2016 Handbook & Bylaws:
6.3 Host Determination.
The game shall be played at the site of the divisional champion with the highest College Football Playoff (CFP) Selection Committee ranking. The site determination shall be made no later than the Sunday following the final week of regular‐season games, utilizing the latest available CFP poll. If one divisional champion isranked ahead of the other divisional champion in the CFP Selection Committee ranking and wins in the final weekend of the regular season, the winner in the final weekend will be declared the host.
If, in that same scenario, the divisional champion that was the highest‐ranked in the CFP poll loses in the final weekend of the regular season, a composite of selected computer rankings following the games of the final weekend of the regular season will be used to determine the host.
If no Mountain West teams are ranked in the latest available CFP Selection Committee poll, a composite of selected computer rankings following the games of the final week of Conference regular-season games will be used to determine the host. (Adopted January 2013, revised October 2014)


For further clarification, looking back at the 2014 bylaws which is referenced:
6.4.2 Host Tie-Breaker.
The Conference Football Championship Game shall be played at the site of the division champion with the highest BCS ranking (or composite BCS computer ranking if no MW teams are ranked in the final BCS Top 25) following the final week of regular-season games. Beginning in 2014, the equivalent ranking in the new postseason system shall be utilized to determine the host.
As stated above, the BCS used all 6 ranking systems; Jeff Sagarin, Anderson/Hester, Richard Billingsley, Colley Matrix, Kenneth Massey, and Dr. Peter Wolfe. To add even more confusion, the BCS actually threw out each team's highest and lowest ranking among the six, the remaining four scores were then averaged together. If these six are still used, does the MWC follow this same formula?

Since the current CFP is completely selected by a committee and computer polls have been thrown out, it makes the sentence in the 2015 bylaws all we really have to go by. "Selected computer rankings" could in fact mean just the four listed by the SD paper but like others have pointed out, not including the other two more mainstream polls that were a part of the former BSC seems a little odd to say the least.

Looks like the 2016-17 bylaws could use some added verbiage and further clarification.
If we throw out the highest and lowest ranking and average the remaining four that would put USU at 60 and SDSU at 63. WE REALLY NEED to have somebody like Steve Luhm from the SLC Tribune nail this down right now to avoid funny business at the end of the year. I say him since after the Boise game the Mr. Harrison the Herald Journals writer admitted it had been the first game he saw live since SUU. I can only assume he has no interest in the team. Also the HJ’s headline “A night to Remember” reminded me of prom night or something should have been more along the lines “U-State lays the lumber to Boise in blow out”. I do think it is important to get the details out in the open before the end of the year. For instance some of these polls award large point spreads. If you keep that in mind you defiantly do not want to let up off the gas in a game. Our coaches have a right to understand what they need to do to get the game in Logan even if it is keeping the pedal down in a blow out.



User avatar
CaptainChaos
Posts: 903
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 11:58 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by CaptainChaos » October 29th, 2015, 9:31 am

Reynard Muldrake wrote:Yep, the four systems mentioned in the Union Tribune were all part of the BCS. Sagarin and Massey were the other two, and were mentioned in the Dennis Dodd CBS Sports article from last year linked above by Blue Sage.

Why would they only use four of the six BCS systems, as the UT article claims? And why would the two most well known be thrown out? Did Sagarin and Massey ask not to be used? Seems unlikely.

I'm (foolishly) hoping one of the local Utah media outlets contacts the MWC and confirms one of the two existing stories.
Yeah keep dreaming... This sounds like it would require work. They are too busy reporting about real stories involving hand gestures and gymnastics.



Ahbye
Posts: 1727
Joined: September 26th, 2012, 9:50 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 140 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Ahbye » October 31st, 2015, 11:38 pm

bump



User avatar
Aggies For Life
Troll
Posts: 578
Joined: September 24th, 2015, 12:35 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Aggies For Life » November 1st, 2015, 1:49 am

JSHarvey wrote:Unless the team can win out in conference it is all likely moot anyway. Once we get past the AFA game I'll start to worry about it.
This is exactly what I was thinking as well


This is my signature.

Blue Away
Posts: 921
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 8:36 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Blue Away » November 1st, 2015, 5:42 am

Of course, if margin or other stats also matter, then scoring 50 plus points like we have in three of the last four garmes will help our rating, too.

GO BIG BLUE!



blueaggie
Posts: 928
Joined: November 27th, 2010, 7:43 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by blueaggie » November 1st, 2015, 8:47 pm

I would hope that our ad is all over it. I am sure the MW administration will do all that the can to have SD ranked higher to avoid the embarrassment of having the game in Logan when they beat us head to head. We need the press to get the facts and get it out to the public asap! :utah: :state:



NVAggie
SJSU Ultimate Loser Award Winner - Given to someone that should probably give up but won't.
Posts: 16556
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 8:09 am
Location: Where the sagebrush grows!
Has thanked: 788 times
Been thanked: 697 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by NVAggie » November 2nd, 2015, 8:17 am

I agree. We need to know the criteria so that it doesn't change to suit favorites.



User avatar
freakboy
Posts: 1201
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 12:54 pm
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by freakboy » November 2nd, 2015, 9:21 am

I'd be surprised if scoring margin factors into these ratings. The NCAA has been very careful in the past at distancing itself from betting. That's one of the reasons Jeff Sagarin has several versions of his ratings. The version that doesn't take winning margin into account is the ones used by the BCS.



Blue Sage
Posts: 525
Joined: January 28th, 2015, 6:24 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Blue Sage » November 2nd, 2015, 11:56 am

This Weeks Ranking....
USU SDSU
Anderson & Hester 68 61
Billinglsy 55 53
Colley 52 48
Wolfe 55 54
Saragain 51 60
Massey 53 56

Thus as of this week if SDSU beat writier is correct USU 57.5 SDSU 54, If You use the same method as BCS then USU 53.75; SDSU 55.75
I hope our AD as suggested above or Luhm from the Tribune figure out how the location is decided pronto!!!



TheRealTO
Posts: 131
Joined: February 26th, 2011, 12:18 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by TheRealTO » November 2nd, 2015, 12:56 pm

FYI ... I've confirmed with the Mountain West office that the Union-Tribune story is accurate. The composite of the four computer rankings mentioned in that article are the ones used to determine the championship game host. The Massey and Sagarin ratings are NOT used.



QuackAttackAggie
Pick'em Champ - '12 Bowl; '15, '17 Weekly; '18 BB Predict the Score
Posts: 15726
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 12:08 pm
Location: 서울
Has thanked: 119 times
Been thanked: 557 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by QuackAttackAggie » November 2nd, 2015, 8:00 pm

TheRealTO wrote:FYI ... I've confirmed with the Mountain West office that the Union-Tribune story is accurate. The composite of the four computer rankings mentioned in that article are the ones used to determine the championship game host. The Massey and Sagarin ratings are NOT used.
way to go


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Jjoey52
Posts: 3397
Joined: December 16th, 2014, 11:17 pm
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Jjoey52 » November 3rd, 2015, 6:33 pm

Of course the MWC would prefer the game in SD as opposed to here. We seat 22-23k, SD at least 50k seats. More money, better weather and more publicity in SD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


“Apathy and tolerance are the final virtues of a dying society.” - Aristotle

User avatar
Aglicious
Site Admin
Posts: 5260
Joined: January 14th, 2004, 12:00 am
Location: Vega$
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 387 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by Aglicious » November 4th, 2015, 12:03 am

TheRealTO wrote:FYI ... I've confirmed with the Mountain West office that the Union-Tribune story is accurate. The composite of the four computer rankings mentioned in that article are the ones used to determine the championship game host. The Massey and Sagarin ratings are NOT used.
Thanks for the follow up on this TO~! :thumbsup: Perhaps you are writing something up on this but did they happen to mention as to why Massey and Sagarin, the two more mainstream and accepted ranking systems, are not being used?



User avatar
OKAggie
Posts: 2411
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 8:32 am
Location: Tulsa, OK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 216 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by OKAggie » November 4th, 2015, 7:15 am

Jjoey52 wrote:Of course the MWC would prefer the game in SD as opposed to here. We seat 22-23k, SD at least 50k seats. More money, better weather and more publicity in SD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Contrary view: If we get our average attendance at the Mav, TV will see and hear a loud full house in a football stadium. If SDSU gets its average attendance at Qualcomm, it will look like a half-empty house in a baseball stadium.

Can't argue about the weather, and don't think the publicity of the MWCCG really moves anybody's needle but the two teams involved.


Nobody here knows anything.

NavyBlueAggie
Posts: 2121
Joined: November 5th, 2010, 9:28 am
Has thanked: 170 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by NavyBlueAggie » November 4th, 2015, 8:25 am

Appears you have a valid point OK. People may watch the game on TV or read about it the next day and that is where the positive effects of CCG in Logan (or elsewhere) gets serious traction. The fact that the Aztecs are playing really strong football right now is my major concern.



User avatar
GeoAg
Moderator
Posts: 7162
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 1:09 am
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 134 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by GeoAg » November 4th, 2015, 9:36 am

NavyBlueAggie wrote:Appears you have a valid point OK. People may watch the game on TV or read about it the next day and that is where the positive effects of CCG in Logan (or elsewhere) gets serious traction. The fact that the Aztecs are playing really strong football right now is my major concern.
I think we can beat them if we get another shot in a CCG. I want another shot at them badly.


"I don't think you become resilient right in the middle of the season when adversity hits. You learn how to face adversity in the offseason in football. That's when we win games around Utah State." -Coach Matt Wells #ArmsAround

AggieDude
Posts: 5464
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 5:10 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by AggieDude » November 4th, 2015, 9:38 am

Redemption will be sweet.

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk



TheRealTO
Posts: 131
Joined: February 26th, 2011, 12:18 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Conference Championship Game in Logan

Post by TheRealTO » November 4th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Aglicious wrote:
TheRealTO wrote:FYI ... I've confirmed with the Mountain West office that the Union-Tribune story is accurate. The composite of the four computer rankings mentioned in that article are the ones used to determine the championship game host. The Massey and Sagarin ratings are NOT used.
Thanks for the follow up on this TO~! :thumbsup: Perhaps you are writing something up on this but did they happen to mention as to why Massey and Sagarin, the two more mainstream and accepted ranking systems, are not being used?

They didn't really elaborate on it, just said the four used met their purposes.

TO



Locked Previous topicNext topic