Run Game

tkmad · Post by **tkmad** » October 5th, 2016, 2:19 pm

From the Sltrib article....Run game post mays

"Mays' primary replacement, junior Tonny Lindsey Jr., carried 34 times for 33 yards in the two defeats."

Ouch

"When Myers has started a game and thrown more than 25 passes, the Aggies are 0-5"

Double ouch. We need to be able to run the ball...

Post by **treesap32** » October 5th, 2016, 3:00 pm

tkmad wrote: "Mays' primary replacement, junior Tonny Lindsey Jr., carried 34 times for 33 yards in the two defeats."

That is incredibly bad.

tkmad · Post by **tkmad** » October 5th, 2016, 3:47 pm

treesap32 wrote:
tkmad wrote: "Mays' primary replacement, junior Tonny Lindsey Jr., carried 34 times for 33 yards in the two defeats."
That is incredibly bad.

I'm not sure that the stats in the SLTrib article are completely accurate. Here is our running performance totals over the last two games from the ESPN box scores:

Player CAR YDS AVG TD
Hervey 1 26 26 0
Lindsey 25 33 1.32 0
Mays 1 2 2 0
Myers 25 43 1.72 1
Hunt 5 9 1.8 0
Total 57 113 1.98 1

1.98 yards per carry average over last two games....that good or bad?

Post by **treesap32** » October 5th, 2016, 3:49 pm

I'm so glad we're saving Hervey for later in the season. Don't want him to get tired out and not be able to help us later.

Madmartigan · Post by **Madmartigan** » October 5th, 2016, 3:58 pm

treesap32 wrote:I'm so glad we're saving Hervey for later in the season. Don't want him to get tired out and not be able to help us later.

He must've insulted Well's mom or something. I can't figure out why he doesn't get more touches.

AGGZILLA · Post by **AGGZILLA** » October 5th, 2016, 4:20 pm

treesap32 wrote:I'm so glad we're saving Hervey for later in the season. Don't want him to get tired out and not be able to help us later.

Hervey is on the same level as Lindsey. You take away his 80 yard carry against Weber (and keep in mind, everyone was carving big runs against Weber) and the one run vs AF, he has eight carries for a total of 12 yards. Not much better. Until Mays comes back, I don't expect to see much improvement in terms of running production from the other three RB's. In the meantime, we're going to have to figure out how to become more productive on offense either throwing the ball or using gimmick plays.

Post by **treesap32** » October 5th, 2016, 4:51 pm

AGGZILLA wrote:
treesap32 wrote:I'm so glad we're saving Hervey for later in the season. Don't want him to get tired out and not be able to help us later.
Hervey is on the same level as Lindsey. You take away his 80 yard carry against Weber (and keep in mind, everyone was carving big runs against Weber) and the one run vs AF, he has eight carries for a total of 12 yards. Not much better. Until Mays comes back, I don't expect to see much improvement in terms of running production from the other three RB's. In the meantime, we're going to have to figure out how to become more productive on offense either throwing the ball or using gimmick plays.

Why discount his long runs? The average should include the highs and the lows. If he can break loose every 7 carries for a run of about 50 yards he is a valuable back.

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NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » October 5th, 2016, 5:13 pm

Maybe we need to change our running scheme to fit our current personnel. It doesn't seem like we have much success unless we have a back that can get yards after contact.

Machismo · Post by **Machismo** » October 5th, 2016, 5:27 pm

NVAggie wrote:Maybe we need to change our running scheme to fit our current personnel. It doesn't seem like we have much success unless we have a back that can get yards after contact.

So what about next season, who do we have that can break tackles like Mays? I'm not counting on Mays at all this Season, I just get he feeling he's not going to make it.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » October 5th, 2016, 5:35 pm

Isn't that really the point. We don't usually have a back that can break those tackles.

utaggies · Post by **utaggies** » October 5th, 2016, 5:36 pm

I am not convinced this is all about Mays as opposed to Lindsey. Our problem is more about the OL. I am doubtful that Mays would be gaining difference-making yards right now even if he were healthy to play. Better than Lindsey perhaps but how much better?

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » October 5th, 2016, 5:37 pm

Pick a scheme that the line can run then. We don't seem to be very successful with the current scheme.

tkmad · Post by **tkmad** » October 5th, 2016, 7:34 pm

In the Weber game, Mays got a lot of yards by bouncing outside after the holes didn't open up in the middle. It worked because he was faster and stronger than the Weber players. Contrast that to the USC game where they held the edges and he had to stay inside like the run was designed for and he had nowhere to go.

I think Mays would be getting more yards after contact than our current backs but I agree that the bigger issue is probably the line and blocking than it is Lindsey and the RBs not names Mays.

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AgMac · Post by **AgMac** » October 5th, 2016, 7:53 pm

Honest question, do we have another Lil Vig on the team? Someone who maybe played RB in high school but got moved to another position, but is maybe more capable of breaking a tackle or driving the pile forward? Anyone who could get 2 yards a carry would literally be an improvement over our current run game.

AgMac · Post by **AgMac** » October 5th, 2016, 7:55 pm

Also, in case anyone forgot, I posted on here a week before the byu game in provo that Wells should play Vig at RB.

Roy McAvoy · Post by **Roy McAvoy** » October 5th, 2016, 8:35 pm

The run game struggling so badly is what makes it even more perplexing we're not seeing Hobbs used in certain packages. The guy is an insane athlete and could be a great weapon if used right for certain plays.

Elkaggie · Post by **Elkaggie** » October 5th, 2016, 8:41 pm

utaggies wrote:I am not convinced this is all about Mays as opposed to Lindsey. Our problem is more about the OL. I am doubtful that Mays would be gaining difference-making yards right now even if he were healthy to play. Better than Lindsey perhaps but how much better?

This!

Elkaggie · Post by **Elkaggie** » October 5th, 2016, 8:41 pm

tkmad wrote:In the Weber game, Mays got a lot of yards by bouncing outside after the holes didn't open up in the middle. It worked because he was faster and stronger than the Weber players. Contrast that to the USC game where they held the edges and he had to stay inside like the run was designed for and he had nowhere to go.

I think Mays would be getting more yards after contact than our current backs but I agree that the bigger issue is probably the line and blocking than it is Lindsey and the RBs not names Mays.

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Great post. This is spot on.

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » October 5th, 2016, 10:16 pm

I'm not impressed with Lindsey or Hunt as anything but occasional ball carriers. Before the season started, I was terrified that our offense would be horrible if Mays went down because, IMO, we didn't have any decent RBs to back Mays. Now that he's injured, and it is confirmed that both Hunt and Lindsey can't step up, we need to give Hervey a shot. We may also want to think about pulling red shirts off our two Freshman RBs. If they all stink, we need to find a coach who can consistently recruit some RBs who are worth a damn. There are lots of schools with good RBs - even FCS schools. We should have at least two good ones every year. If we have five or six RBs and don't have at least two who are solid, dependable RBs, that's poor recruiting.

Our OL stunk last year and Mays was still able to be productive. With the right back, we can run the ball. We aren't playing the right back. We may not even have the right back.

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » October 5th, 2016, 10:25 pm

It was posted elsewhere that Wells was seen yelling at the O linemen that he can't simplify the run play calls for them to block any more than he already is.

Maverik_Aggie · Post by **Maverik_Aggie** » October 5th, 2016, 10:39 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote:It was posted elsewhere that Wells was seen yelling at the O linemen that he can't simplify the run play calls for them to block any more than he already is.

I believe it. Our line is PUTRID

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » October 5th, 2016, 10:46 pm

tkmad wrote:From the Sltrib article....Run game post mays

"Mays' primary replacement, junior Tonny Lindsey Jr., carried 34 times for 33 yards in the two defeats."

Ouch

"When Myers has started a game and thrown more than 25 passes, the Aggies are 0-5"

Double ouch. We need to be able to run the ball...

The USU game plan makes much more sense to me now after seeing these stats. The idea is to punt a lot and hope for a muffed punt to recover with a short field. That way Myers doesn't have to throw a lot of passes and you don't have to have long runs from inside the 10 yard line. This is genius, actually.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » October 5th, 2016, 10:48 pm

AGGZILLA wrote:
treesap32 wrote:I'm so glad we're saving Hervey for later in the season. Don't want him to get tired out and not be able to help us later.
Hervey is on the same level as Lindsey. You take away his 80 yard carry against Weber (and keep in mind, everyone was carving big runs against Weber) and the one run vs AF, he has eight carries for a total of 12 yards. Not much better. Until Mays comes back, I don't expect to see much improvement in terms of running production from the other three RB's. In the meantime, we're going to have to figure out how to become more productive on offense either throwing the ball or using gimmick plays.

You could take two or three of Barry Sanders runs in each game and make him look like a very mediocre running back, too.

Post by **Aglicious** » October 5th, 2016, 11:29 pm

swishh_15 wrote:The run game struggling so badly is what makes it even more perplexing we're not seeing Hobbs used in certain packages. The guy is an insane athlete and could be a great weapon if used right for certain plays.

In answer to Agmac's question Hobbs is the guy I also wondered about after the AFA game. Why couldn't he be used as the bigger RB once in while? At the very least it would potentially put a lot of pressure on opposing defenses to have to account for both Myers and Hobbs on the field at the same time. Both are run and pass threats. It could be pretty fun to see them play together. Of course this would require ingenuity and creative play design so......I won't hold my breath.

tkmad · Post by **tkmad** » October 6th, 2016, 7:44 am

Yossarian wrote:
tkmad wrote:From the Sltrib article....Run game post mays

"Mays' primary replacement, junior Tonny Lindsey Jr., carried 34 times for 33 yards in the two defeats."

Ouch

"When Myers has started a game and thrown more than 25 passes, the Aggies are 0-5"

Double ouch. We need to be able to run the ball...

The USU game plan makes much more sense to me now after seeing these stats. The idea is to punt a lot and hope for a muffed punt to recover with a short field. That way Myers doesn't have to throw a lot of passes and you don't have to have long runs from inside the 10 yard line. This is genius, actually.

I know this is somewhat TIC, but that game plan doesn't work either as demonstrated by the end of the first half of the game vs Boise where we executed them muffing the punt perfectly but walked away with 0 points from it.

I think Myers is a competent passer and above average at scrambling. The 0-5 stat where he throws +25 times is just another way to highlight the fact that we don't have the ability to abandon the run game and be one dimensional. The offensive game plan, what ever it is, doesn't work unless we can run the ball.

Maverik_Aggie · Post by **Maverik_Aggie** » October 6th, 2016, 8:00 am

Aglicious wrote:
swishh_15 wrote:The run game struggling so badly is what makes it even more perplexing we're not seeing Hobbs used in certain packages. The guy is an insane athlete and could be a great weapon if used right for certain plays.
In answer to Agmac's question Hobbs is the guy I also wondered about after the AFA game. Why couldn't he be used as the bigger RB once in while? At the very least it would potentially put a lot of pressure on opposing defenses to have to account for both Myers and Hobbs on the field at the same time. Both are run and pass threats. It could be pretty fun to see them play together. Of course this would require ingenuity and creative play design so......I won't hold my breath.

If we had Hobbs and Myers on the field that could confuse people sooooo badly. Myers is quick enough to be in the slot. This is likely too creative for Wells....

Roy McAvoy · Post by **Roy McAvoy** » October 6th, 2016, 8:42 am

Maverik_Aggie wrote:
Aglicious wrote:
swishh_15 wrote:The run game struggling so badly is what makes it even more perplexing we're not seeing Hobbs used in certain packages. The guy is an insane athlete and could be a great weapon if used right for certain plays.
In answer to Agmac's question Hobbs is the guy I also wondered about after the AFA game. Why couldn't he be used as the bigger RB once in while? At the very least it would potentially put a lot of pressure on opposing defenses to have to account for both Myers and Hobbs on the field at the same time. Both are run and pass threats. It could be pretty fun to see them play together. Of course this would require ingenuity and creative play design so......I won't hold my breath.
If we had Hobbs and Myers on the field that could confuse people sooooo badly. Myers is quick enough to be in the slot. This is likely too creative for Wells....

Or even something as simple as putting Hobbs in at QB to run the wildcat, read option, and option. Then occasionally have him throw a surprise pass out of it. Seems simple enough. A way to utilize his running ability and save Myers' body a little bit.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » October 6th, 2016, 8:57 am

A couple of things:

1. Boise is in the top 5 in the nation in run defense and they stacked the box and played close.
2. AFA is a very solid run defense who stacked the box and paid for it in the pass game. The Aggies just couldn't finish.
3. Mays averaged more yards after contact than any other back in the country last year. When contact comes at or near the line of scrimmage that's a huge advantage.
4. The O-line is better I think in run blocking than last year although they are worse against the pass rush IMO. There have been fewer 4-5 yard losses in the backfield. They aren't good enough though and especially at picking up extra men in the box. Sometimes they're just outnumbered at the point of attack.

That brings up the biggest elephant in the room. When a run is called and there are clearly more defenders at the point of attack presnap than blockers a QB must have basic checkdowns and audibles. Meyers never does this. Unless the play call is lucky enough to have utilized a primary pass route where the defense has conceded defenders its dead on arrival. Further Meyers doesn't recognize very well which route is going to be open presnap very often IMO and locks on. I can also see the psychological effect on the o-line because they more than anyone know when the play should be checked out of.

The O-line is an ongoing issue but even with Alabama's front you can't be outnumbered at the point of attack consistently and it really hurts when one of the best guys in the country at breaking tackles and getting additional yards is sitting on the bench. Maybe I'm way off base but that's the way I see it.

If Meyers can't make defenses respect his mental game then the Aggies should give someone else a shot.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » October 6th, 2016, 9:19 am

I would love to hear what opposing coaching staffs have to say about our offense. If only I could be a fly on the wall.

hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » October 6th, 2016, 9:24 am

Here's what I see being the problem with the run game: We're only running a Pseudo Zone Read Option.

I say this for the following reasons:
1- Myers isn't reading the DE or the LB and keeping it when the commit to the RB
2- The O-line can't keep out 7-8 defenders long enough for Myers to read the DE or the LB coming off the edge.
3- The RB is giving the ball more times that not and he not only has zero holes to hit, but has a guy in his face

I think Wells and Co need to face facts. We don't have the horses on the O-line to run the zone read effectively. We would be much better off doing straight hand offs or pitches to the RBs and letting them try and hit the holes during the glimpses that they exist. The zone read takes too long to develop and just isn't an option with this O-line and without a QB capable of making defenses pay with his arm teams will continue to stack the box.

What ever happened to the jet sweep btw?

brian5562 · Post by **brian5562** » October 6th, 2016, 9:37 am

If a team puts 8 in the box Myers should be throwing. Specifically the bozo everyone hates.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » October 6th, 2016, 9:39 am

NVAggie wrote:I would love to hear what opposing coaching staffs have to say about our offense. If only I could be a fly on the wall.

I make amateur look amateur as I have no coaching experience but I've watched a lot of offensive film the past year in my own game prep and I know that at least DEs get a woody watching our films...lol...Our tackles are horrible pass blockers on pass downs. Bull rush once or twice and then swim and spin and they're lost, and the offense is so predictable. Meyers can make a DE nervous with his feet but there is also a lot of opportunity.

Beyond that our offense is dumbed down with Meyers quit a bit and you don't have to worry about audibles so the D can really dictate and move around presnap. There are virtually two plays that are run out of hurry up and moving guys around gives you a good chance at a false start. They probably also look and note that they can confuse Meyers on the read. They have legitimate worries about our receivers for sure but by mixing up coverage and looks and keeping everything underneath defenses don't worry about the Aggies ability to sustain drives.

Of course, with the lightweight Ds we face in the next few weeks they know they are outmatched athletically on the edge and don't have the caliber of D-line and front 7 we've been facing so while they can game plan to dictate a lot they also have their hands full by virtue of the fact that Meyers and the receivers might just be too athletic and our O-lineman good enough against their less than average fronts.

aggiesdotcom · Post by **aggiesdotcom** » October 6th, 2016, 11:22 am

AGGZILLA wrote:
treesap32 wrote:I'm so glad we're saving Hervey for later in the season. Don't want him to get tired out and not be able to help us later.
Hervey is on the same level as Lindsey. You take away his 80 yard carry against Weber (and keep in mind, everyone was carving big runs against Weber) and the one run vs AF, he has eight carries for a total of 12 yards. Not much better. Until Mays comes back, I don't expect to see much improvement in terms of running production from the other three RB's. In the meantime, we're going to have to figure out how to become more productive on offense either throwing the ball or using gimmick plays.

If you apply the same absurd measurement to Lindsey, by taking away 15% of his best runs, it puts him at 51 carries for 89 yards on the season. The fact that Lindsey carries the ball more per game than Hervey has for the entire season, when considering 15% of Hervey's runs average 53 yards per carry while 85% of Lindsey's runs average a paltry 1.7 yards per carry, I think is the troubling statistic.

Machismo · Post by **Machismo** » October 6th, 2016, 11:29 am

Welp, from this Thread I'm Gleaning that this Offense "may" score enough points to win enough Games remaining on the Schedule to get to a Bowl game but don't be surprised if they don't. We have a QB that cannot read a D to check down to hot reads that will get him out of trouble when a D is showing Blitz. We cant run the Ball so It screws up the whole Offensive philosophy. The O line is the Root of all of this even though we have three Seniors who've played a TON of Ball together but still cant seems to do their jobs. If We had better Players behind these Guys they'd be playing right? Sounds to me like this is a recruiting issue, I'm now expecting to have another inept Offense next Season. Even if Jordon Love can remotely read D's and is good enough to win the Job we still will not have an O line that can punch they're way out of a paper Bag. Yippeeee!!

Edit: I hope I'm really really wrong, Maybe they'll show us something facing the easier part of the Schedule.

tkmad · Post by **tkmad** » October 6th, 2016, 12:07 pm

Machismo wrote:Welp, from this Thread I'm Gleaning that this Offense "may" score enough points to win enough Games remaining on the Schedule to get to a Bowl game but don't be surprised if they don't. We have a QB that cannot read a D to check down to hot reads that will get him out of trouble when a D is showing Blitz. We cant run the Ball so It screws up the whole Offensive philosophy. The O line is the Root of all of this even though we have three Seniors who've played a TON of Ball together but still cant seems to do their jobs. If We had better Players behind these Guys they'd be playing right? Sounds to me like this is a recruiting issue, I'm now expecting to have another inept Offense next Season. Even if Jordon Love can remotely read D's and is good enough to win the Job we still will not have an O line that can punch they're way out of a paper Bag. Yippeeee!!
Edit: I hope I'm really really wrong, Maybe they'll show us something facing the easier part of the Schedule.

Sure, from a lot of observations from frustrated arm chair quarterbacks and people will little to no knowledge or experience of D1 football, things sound pretty rough. Unfortunate we had to play the most likely two best teams from our division as the first two conference games. I think you're edit is accurate, I think the team will look substantially better as the competition decreases.

As long as we remember how little we all actually know.... or we trust your signature line from George Costanza "it's not a lie if you believe it"

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