Error in judgement vs all out mistake

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FeartheFro
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Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by FeartheFro » November 14th, 2016, 3:47 pm

I am interested to hear from the group your thoughts on the following instances from the game Saturday night. What I am looking for is your opinion on whether what happened was an error in judgement, or a flat out mistake on the part of Well's. I will fully admit I have not been a fan of Matt's for several seasons, and know this is clouding my judgement, thus want to hear some other opinions from those that feel differently.

#1- Going for it on 4th down with the score tied at 21. In my opinion this has to be classified as bad judgement. He made this decision and had plenty of time to think about it. Play selection and not having confidence in our kicking game all fall on Matt.

#2- Calling a timeout with 16 seconds left on the clock, while the clock was stopped, using our last timeout. In my opinion this can only be called a mistake on the part of Matt. Is there any way this can be categorized as bad judgement? Is there any explanation that can be provided that shows it was bad judgement? I can't think of one, but want to be open minded.

#3- Calling for the field goal unit rather than spiking the ball. My opinion is that this can only be called a critical mistake on the part of Matt. Once again, is there any argument as to whether this was bad judgement as opposed to a mistake? If he claims he was confused by the down because of the scoreboard, this in my opinion falls 100% as a mistake on Matt's part. Is there another way to look at this?

If #2 and #3 are full out mistakes, action needs to be taken. I don't support firing someone based on a judgement call, but I do support firing someone that makes blatant coaching mistakes that potentially cost us a win, and has a direct financial impact on the football program.



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ShowMeAggie
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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by ShowMeAggie » November 14th, 2016, 4:26 pm

FeartheFro wrote:I am interested to hear from the group your thoughts on the following instances from the game Saturday night. What I am looking for is your opinion on whether what happened was an error in judgement, or a flat out mistake on the part of Well's. I will fully admit I have not been a fan of Matt's for several seasons, and know this is clouding my judgement, thus want to hear some other opinions from those that feel differently.

#1- Going for it on 4th down with the score tied at 21. In my opinion this has to be classified as bad judgement. He made this decision and had plenty of time to think about it. Play selection and not having confidence in our kicking game all fall on Matt.

#2- Calling a timeout with 16 seconds left on the clock, while the clock was stopped, using our last timeout. In my opinion this can only be called a mistake on the part of Matt. Is there any way this can be categorized as bad judgement? Is there any explanation that can be provided that shows it was bad judgement? I can't think of one, but want to be open minded.

#3- Calling for the field goal unit rather than spiking the ball. My opinion is that this can only be called a critical mistake on the part of Matt. Once again, is there any argument as to whether this was bad judgement as opposed to a mistake? If he claims he was confused by the down because of the scoreboard, this in my opinion falls 100% as a mistake on Matt's part. Is there another way to look at this?

If #2 and #3 are full out mistakes, action needs to be taken. I don't support firing someone based on a judgement call, but I do support firing someone that makes blatant coaching mistakes that potentially cost us a win, and has a direct financial impact on the football program.
My $0.02:

#1 - bad judgement...and even then, only in hindsight. i myself was calling for him to go for it on 4th down. if he had made it, and we held them to a FG on their next drive like we did, we'd be singing a very different tune. I, for one, don't fault this one too much. someone asked on another thread about the message this decision sent to his defense. what about the message to his offense...trying to inspire by putting his confidence in them. i disagree with the personnel package(s) and play calls, but the rest, not so much.

#2 - flat out BAD mistake. no justification I can see. And a mistake that was compounded, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, by not having the team prepared for all contingencies coming out of the TO. BAD BAD management. Maybe an example of a HC/OC that had too much on his plate to think clearly about a small little thing like game/clock management?!

#3 - mistake...but my theory is that it is/was a mistake made by a special teams coach (or similar) and that MW is just shielding his guy from targeted hatemails, etc. Ultimately, it's on MW for not having his staff on the same page as him, and the buck does ultimately stop with him. But my guess (and it's ONLY a guess...albeit an educated one) is that this is another case of MW not giving us the whole truth because he's protecting someone.

MW won't be fired for making these two mistakes (IF they were), though. IF he gets fired, it will be because of longer term trends of underwhelming performance on the field and off (recruiting, etc) OR because of something really egregious (like a cover-up in the TG investigation, e.g.). I do hope the AD steps in to hold him accountable for his mistakes, though...without accountability, you've got a program left in the lurch...



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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by Yossarian » November 14th, 2016, 4:31 pm

Down and distance. These are the most basic aspects of playcalling - offense or defense. Always be aware of down and distance. Secondary to this is time, field position, and score. If you don't pay attention to these details meticulously, you won't be successful as a coach.



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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by cdaAg » November 14th, 2016, 8:44 pm

1. Judgment call, great call if it works, bad call if it doesn't.
2. Mistake (if idiocy was an option, that's what I'd select).
3. Mistake (based in general ignorance of the situation - coaching staff really doesn't know what down it is :crazy: )



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ryanolsen
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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by ryanolsen » November 14th, 2016, 9:19 pm

I've got to disagree that 1 was bad judgement or a judgement call. It's at home. You are tied. You put points on the board with the chip shot. NM then has 5:30 to go the length of the field to win or tie with a field goal. Things might get forced a bit. I see that as a no brainer.



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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by andytheaggie » November 14th, 2016, 9:57 pm

ryanolsen wrote:I've got to disagree that 1 was bad judgement or a judgement call. It's at home. You are tied. You put points on the board with the chip shot. NM then has 5:30 to go the length of the field to win or tie with a field goal. Things might get forced a bit. I see that as a no brainer.
is it a guarantee that the field goal goes in? From what I remember, we were lined up on the right hash... That makes for a pretty tough angle. I liked the call to go for it, just hated the play.

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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by NavyBlueAggie » November 14th, 2016, 10:21 pm

#2. The play that was called during the time out wasn't the Q B scramble play to oblivion we saw. The following cluster foxtrot of scrambling players to attempt the field goal was just an extension of the called play and execution breakdown. As has been noted, the play can be drawn out, rehearsed and practiced, but the athletes on the field have to execute the play.



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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by Coloraggie » November 14th, 2016, 11:09 pm

#2 and #3 were obvious mistakes. The TO was terrible but not knowing the down was worse. The ref isn't going to change the call so stop arguing, there is nothing the ref can do at that point even if he wanted. The first part of the timeout should be conferring with the ref on down and making sure when the clock will start if it is a 1st down inbounds etc... Then explain to the team every scenario that might happen. What happens if the clock stops with an incompletion or out of bounds, what if the play is inbounds, etc... Everyone should be on the same page. Before the Myers scramble with 16 seconds left I said out loud I bet we call an underneath route to the middle of the field so we can't stop the play before the clock expires and then Myers drops back and after 0.5 seconds scrambles. I'll give Myers credit though that at least he wanted to spike it, which was better than the coaches.

I believe #1 was a mistake and knew it before we failed the attempt. Why? We are terrible at picking up 1 yard when the other team is expecting it. Also, if we don't make it they don't have to go 99.5 yards, they have to go 70 yards and that is for the win not a tie. Make the FG and kick it deep and they have 75 for the win and still need 45 for the potential tie with much more pressure on the kicker. The FG tells your defense I expect you to hold them for the win whereas going for the TD tells the defense 'I don't think you can stop them so lets try to get as many points as we can.' Some say the FG isn't automatic but if we can't make an 18-yard FG with 3 FG kickers on the team that is on the coaches, that is simply an extra point if our FG kickers can't get it done how are we expecting them to make it at the end when they are rushed because we didn't spike the ball. it is just terrible, Wells looks like he just learned what this football stuff is and has never been in a situation at the end of the game. I guarantee everyone on this board could have managed the time better at the end of the game.



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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by dyedblue » November 15th, 2016, 6:02 am

You have to take the lead in a game like that. We have issued kicking FGs but that is extra point territory. Not many coaches go for it in that situation because with 5 minutes left we likely get the ball back to end the game.

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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by Full » November 15th, 2016, 10:18 am

1. Judgment call, but the explanation given as to why he made that judgement call makes it a mistake. I understand believing in the offense, but they should have scored on second or third down after having second and goal from the two in order to be worthy of that confidence.

2 & 3. Mistakes.



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Re: Error in judgement vs all out mistake

Post by NVAggie » November 15th, 2016, 10:56 am

#1 Judgment call - The explanation makes sense, but I think you put points on the board and make the other team beat or tie. The mistake was not bringing in Hobbs for those four downs and stuffing it in or actually pulling the bootleg for once. We have been terrible at getting a yard on third and fourth down for three years now.

#2 Big Mistake - No reason to call that timeout other than allowing the shock of the situation to control you. Calling that timeout took away options and ultimately lost us the ball game. Wells also didn't spend much time talking to his team. He was too worried about arguing with the refs.

#3 Big Mistake - This just made us look stupid. We found a new way to lose. So many blunders here that just show that the coaching staff was not fully locked into the game. I'm still in shock.



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