Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

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aggies22
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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by aggies22 » October 10th, 2017, 11:46 am

ChicAggie wrote:Good stuff, Ahbye. My take is that we should terminate Wells immediately and give Ahbye a shot. :)
Ahbye turning in his badge and gun for a whistle and ball cap?? Or are you a visor guy? :utah: :state:



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by AggieDude » October 10th, 2017, 1:31 pm

aggies22 wrote:
ChicAggie wrote:Good stuff, Ahbye. My take is that we should terminate Wells immediately and give Ahbye a shot. :)
Ahbye turning in his badge and gun for a whistle and ball cap?? Or are you a visor guy? :utah: :state:
Visors go really well with skirts.



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by TheAKAggie » October 10th, 2017, 9:37 pm

aggies22 wrote:
ChicAggie wrote:Good stuff, Ahbye. My take is that we should terminate Wells immediately and give Ahbye a shot. :)
Ahbye turning in his badge and gun for a whistle and ball cap?? Or are you a visor guy? :utah: :state:
Open carry, he’s keeping the gun.


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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by jackmormon » October 10th, 2017, 10:42 pm

aggies22 wrote:I remember having this same conversation near the end of Travis Cox senior year when fans were screaming for Leon Jackson. For the record I was one of them. I do think it is time to give Jordan his shot.
I have been hoping you would weigh in on this.

Do you think it is time to throw Colombi into the mix and let him compete for the job now? Or is it more important to save his redshirt?



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by aggies22 » October 11th, 2017, 7:39 am

jackmormon wrote:
aggies22 wrote:I remember having this same conversation near the end of Travis Cox senior year when fans were screaming for Leon Jackson. For the record I was one of them. I do think it is time to give Jordan his shot.
I have been hoping you would weigh in on this.

Do you think it is time to throw Colombi into the mix and let him compete for the job now? Or is it more important to save his redshirt?
Two words, HELL NO! I may sound a little cruel but the kid is talented and I'd hate to see him get away. Pulling the redshirt essentially would give Colombi the green light to transfer if he saw fit, as it would give him the chance to preserve a year of eligibility. Keeping the redshirt on Colombi would at least make him think twice about leaving, as it would cost him a second year of eligibility to leave for another FBS school. Now please understand that I have no reason to believe that Colombi is disgruntled in any way. I'm just saying that IF we were unable to reach a bowl game and Wells was fired, there is a certain coach that recruited Colombi that the new coach would be wise in retaining.



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by hickaggie » October 11th, 2017, 9:42 am

aggies22 wrote:
jackmormon wrote:
aggies22 wrote:I remember having this same conversation near the end of Travis Cox senior year when fans were screaming for Leon Jackson. For the record I was one of them. I do think it is time to give Jordan his shot.
I have been hoping you would weigh in on this.

Do you think it is time to throw Colombi into the mix and let him compete for the job now? Or is it more important to save his redshirt?
Two words, HELL NO! I may sound a little cruel but the kid is talented and I'd hate to see him get away. Pulling the redshirt essentially would give Colombi the green light to transfer if he saw fit, as it would give him the chance to preserve a year of eligibility. Keeping the redshirt on Colombi would at least make him think twice about leaving, as it would cost him a second year of eligibility to leave for another FBS school. Now please understand that I have no reason to believe that Colombi is disgruntled in any way. I'm just saying that IF we were unable to reach a bowl game and Wells was fired, there is a certain coach that recruited Colombi that the new coach would be wise in retaining.
IMO you don't pull a redshirt to force any kid to play with this O-line. Part of Myers lack of develop and regression is based on that I think. Love, he's already there and lets see what he can do with it. DJ Nelson too. But if Colombi is the future keep him the hell out.



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by jackmormon » October 11th, 2017, 12:31 pm

aggies22 wrote:
jackmormon wrote:
aggies22 wrote:I remember having this same conversation near the end of Travis Cox senior year when fans were screaming for Leon Jackson. For the record I was one of them. I do think it is time to give Jordan his shot.
I have been hoping you would weigh in on this.

Do you think it is time to throw Colombi into the mix and let him compete for the job now? Or is it more important to save his redshirt?
Two words, HELL NO! I may sound a little cruel but the kid is talented and I'd hate to see him get away. Pulling the redshirt essentially would give Colombi the green light to transfer if he saw fit, as it would give him the chance to preserve a year of eligibility. Keeping the redshirt on Colombi would at least make him think twice about leaving, as it would cost him a second year of eligibility to leave for another FBS school. Now please understand that I have no reason to believe that Colombi is disgruntled in any way. I'm just saying that IF we were unable to reach a bowl game and Wells was fired, there is a certain coach that recruited Colombi that the new coach would be wise in retaining.
That's a great point. I hadn't even thought about that way.

Thx.



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by FloridaAggie13 » October 11th, 2017, 1:46 pm

Ahbye wrote:I try to be pretty fair about what I write about players, and as such, I was all for Kent getting another start after the ISU game. I truly thought he was finally getting it. Only problem was that Kent also thought he was finally getting it and reverted back to his old self.

As someone with maybe a little more expertise than a 12 year old girl (but not much) due to having coached several college qb's at the high school level, I can tell you the exact difference between what Myers does wrong, and what Love did right. Love took his first passing snap, looked at his first read, nothing there. Immediately looked at his second, and fired it out right there into the receiver's hands...and then out again. Not Love's fault. On the first down drop, Love threw it before the receiver made his break...just like he was supposed to do. Problem is, the receivers are used to Kent. Kent NEVER throws his guys open. He NEVER has the ball there on time, which hurts us in at least two ways.

The system I played and coached under, we even went so far as to have to coach where hands should be through all phases of a route. Lots of guys drop their hands as they make their break, as if dropping your hands helps you slow down your feet or something. Problem with that is that when they come out of the break, their hands aren't up where the ball is supposed to be and they end up either having the ball bounce off of their pads, or worse, in the act of bringing their hands up reactively, they hit the ball up in the air for the defense. (Carson Terrell does this.) If you're wondering why both of Love's passes were dropped, there's your answer right there. The receivers are used to a different and improper timing and therefore don't have their hands up or their eyes around upon the delivery of a properly timed ball. That's the first way not throwing on time hurts us.

To better illustrate that point, the Stevens kid was throwing balls before his receivers broke all day long. There was one in the third quarter where his receiver ran a corner underneath a fly route on the outside. The ball was in the air long before the break and the receiver turned with his hands up, made the jumping catch where nobody else could get to it, and they had a big gain. There was only a millisecond of time between when the receiver got his head around and when the ball was there. The DB on that play was right with the receiver, which illustrates the fallacy that a qb can't make throws if his receivers can't get open or aren't open. It's both of their jobs to complete a pass. The receiver runs the right route and the qb throws on time. This is why you see plenty of slow wide receivers with mammoth catch totals. The kinder term they use for slow receivers is "possession receivers". In short, while a properly timed ball with a properly run route doesn't guarantee a completion, it does guarantee that the receiver will at least begin the first part of the catch by getting his hands on it. The DB may knock it out before the receiver can complete the catch, but the odds aren't great. The only reason you're going to your next read is if your receiver is re-routed by the DB (which negates the "properly run route" part of the equation) or if you're looking at what we call bracketed or helped coverage. In other words, there is a higher risk of interception because the defensive alignment is such that the defenders are shaded towards a particular receiver or zone. The second read on every properly designed play takes advantage of that imbalance by targeting the receiver who now has looser coverage. That's why a qb's reads are always linear or triangular in fashion and cover an orderly and localized part of the field before moving to the next. You're never looking at a receiver on one extreme side of the field and then clear over at another on the other side unless you've got a horrible play designer, and we don't have one of those, contrary to popular opinion. Timed throws after a proper read (of the defense, not the receiver) and good routes result in what CSU put out as a product on Saturday. When we speak of timing, it sounds like it's a pretty artsy life's work to be able to know when to throw a ball at a certain time to meet a certain target that's also moving, but it's really not. Routes have yardage lengths and qb drops have step lengths that are proven and coordinated to match up. In simple terms, any route under five yards gets a three step qb drop upon which the ball is thrown immediately. Anything 10-14 yards gets a five step with an immediate throw, anything longer gets a seven step (these are rare), with the exception of a fly route, which is dependent upon field position or strategy. (Back shoulder passes, etc.) Yes, we are at a disadvantage running out of the gun when it comes to timing, but there are ways to manage. Since we do a lot of play action, once that ball is pulled, that's about the time it takes for a three step drop. You pull and throw. With the longer routes, you make the throw a step before the receiver chops his feet down for the break. How do you know he's going to break? Because as qb, you dang well better know the distance and nature of the routes your receivers are running, along with any pre-snap adjustments made to routes due to coverage. These are all pre-planned adjustments, too. If for instance I'm supposed to run a 6 yard curl and the DB comes up into bump coverage, that pretty much takes that away. It's Football 101 automatic that I'm running a fade as an adjustment, if there are +2 safeties. If there are fewer safeties such as in a cover 1 or 0 I'm running a faded post. Those throws will have air under them and the qb can fade me deeper down field depending on where he needs me to be. He throws me open, out of coverage. (Posts are higher percentage throws because of the angles, so you always adjust to the higher percentage route.) There should never be "miscommunications" between qb and receiver. You either run the wrong route or he throws the wrong route. With time and reps, I believe these important concepts are what you get with Love.

OTOH, here's what you get with the style that Kent has settled into: Take the snap, go to your first read, wait for him to break. If on the break he's open because of amazing athleticism or trickery, you throw it. If not, improvise because you're behind the sack clock, tuck it and run or get sacked. (That's the second way not getting it out on time hurts, if it wasn't obvious.) If there were a betting line on what Kent does on every pass play, someone would be typing this as I dictated to them, while being salved and oiled by others (both myself and the dictatee) because I'd be that wealthy. Kent will ALWAYS, Always, always take a snap and improvise. He will always wait for a play to break down, not because he wants to, but because he's become conditioned to the results of not throwing on time to the proper read. If he doesn't get that first read in other words, the play is broken. Someone who has the time and access should find the statistical breakdowns of plays that succeed after a breakdown or upon improvisation. I'd put it at about 10%. The problem with even the successful miracles is that even if you complete that chest pass to Lajuan Hunt or Tarver off of the fumble (both happened against CSU), for one, the offense is in no position to block. Once the play is over, you get into what I would call "faces of death" mode. This is basically where everyone goes "phew, that was close", and their minds aren't on executing the next play. Those who are collecting the statistics should look to see how often a drive continues after the successful breakdown play. Oftentimes, the next play is a false start, turnover, or unsuccessful broken play. If you don't believe this is an issue, try and think of how you felt the last time after a near-miss while driving your car that would have been your fault. Even when nothing happens, you feel off for a period of time afterwards. It's why we fans can't settle in for long drives, because what we've come to expect from Kent is a seat-of-your-pants, only score on broken or amazing-feats-type offense. Teams like CSU and the Boise's of old score 90% of their points on routine plays that were just run correctly. Our offense is just the opposite with Kent at the helm. That's the end of my soliloquy.
Excellent post and very informative Ahbye, thank you.

Question: is it your experience that "pocket presence" or the ability to progress from the first read to the second or to the third without panicking and looking at the pass rush as soon as the first read isn't open is innate and not really teachable? I ask because there seems to be so few who are good at this even though all of the QB's are being taught, maybe not properly, how to do this properly.



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by FloridaAggie13 » October 11th, 2017, 1:54 pm

NVAggie wrote:Bravo on that memory. Seau was good at blowing people up. One of my favorites.
Funny story. I kind of knew Kevin White as we had a few classes together in 1990 and 1991 and were teamed together on a large class project. I ran into him in the summer of 1994 while we were playing basketball at the HPER. After catching up a bit I asked him his opinion of Jermaine Younger; you may remember Jermaine was the big cheese for awhile at USU and was Sports Illustrated defensive player of the week once. He was dominant. I wanted to know how he compared to Seau and if he would make the NFL.

So, Kevin White, who was blown up by Seau, a middle linebacker as was Younger, tells me...(I'm paraphrasing 23 years later). "Yeah, Younger is good - for around here. But nothing like Seau at all." He then said Seau was probably FASTER than anyone on USU's team at the time they played in 1989 - this includes the WR's, two of which went to the NFL - Rod Moore and Patrick Newman, and said Seau couldn't be blocked by anyone on USU's team. He went on to say that Younger probably wouldn't make it in the NFL which he didn't.

Interesting conversation.



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Re: Jor-dan, Jor-dan, JOR-DAN

Post by FloridaAggie13 » October 11th, 2017, 1:56 pm

Donman wrote:
FloridaAggie13 wrote:
aggies22 wrote:
mcaggie1 wrote:
NavyBlueAggie wrote:To use the term we are so familiar with....... " Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"
Exactly. BTW, anyone remember Kirk Johnson? He threw it over everybody's head too. .... when he wasn't throwing the ball three feet in front of the receiver.
Isn't Kirk Johnson who Matt Wells was benched for?
Wells was benched for Aaaron Flowers in 1994; then Flowers was benched for Wells. And on and on until Weatherbie left for Navy. In 1995 John L. benched Wells for another guy from a military academy and then eventually Matt Sauk stepped in. I was long gone to Florida by then.

Kirk Johnson was the QB in 1989; in his defense, I don't think he was ever supposed to see the field but the starter, Kevin White who was pretty good, got lit up in the opener by Junior Seau/USC ending his career and giving us Kirk Johnson.

Man, I'm old.
Johnson was replaced by Ron Lopez. Who wound up being pretty good

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You're absolutely right. I remember Shelton going to four WR's when they played their annual money game at Nebraska and Lopez having a good game and being an overall above average QB during his time here.



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