Top 5 MWC recruits
Posted: February 12th, 2019, 10:06 pm
You’ve got a total of 92 posts on our board. I imagine that two-thirds of them tout BSU. I have two questions for you: 1) do you have 92 posts on each of the other MWC message boards as you do the same? and 2) if you don’t, why are we so blessed to have you camp out here?
I have described Boise State to others as a football team with a Potemkin university.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
I honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5th tied with Idaho State.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
From someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
I actually agree with you but I was going off of university ranking sites and most did not have a ranking for idaho state, so I put them at the bottom. But the point is Boise is consistently at the bottom of the state.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
So from your perspective, does this look like a pretty accurate academic order? I would imagine a lot of kids in Idaho want to go to Boise mainly for the football. And the city offers a different experience than Moscow or Pocatello, I suppose.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
College of IdahoLarryTheAggie wrote:I honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5th tied with Idaho State.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
College of Idaho,
BYUI
Northwest Nazarene
Idaho State and Boise State,
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
Or can we ban BAZINGA all together?? He never talks USU and his threads have ZERO impactful infoLarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 14th, 2019, 11:43 amMods, can we get this thread renamed to "Top 5 Schools in Idaho." That way the name won't have anything to do with Boise State.
Come on now, I miss Frank, he was always good for a laugh.
Idaho State has the nation’s premier cryptozoology program.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
Bitcoin is important.dogie wrote: ↑February 15th, 2019, 7:11 amIdaho State has the nation’s premier cryptozoology program.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
Yes. Boise is attractive for the social aspect not the academics. There really isnt a premier industry at Boise. UofI has their Law School ISU has a couple of premier places namely physical therepy and pharamcyflying_scotsman2.0 wrote:So from your perspective, does this look like a pretty accurate academic order? I would imagine a lot of kids in Idaho want to go to Boise mainly for the football. And the city offers a different experience than Moscow or Pocatello, I suppose.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:13 amYes. Boise is attractive for the social aspect not the academics. There really isnt a premier industry at Boise. UofI has their Law School ISU has a couple of premier places namely physical therepy and pharamcyflying_scotsman2.0 wrote:So from your perspective, does this look like a pretty accurate academic order? I would imagine a lot of kids in Idaho want to go to Boise mainly for the football. And the city offers a different experience than Moscow or Pocatello, I suppose.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
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slcagg wrote:Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:13 amYes. Boise is attractive for the social aspect not the academics. There really isnt a premier industry at Boise. UofI has their Law School ISU has a couple of premier places namely physical therepy and pharamcyflying_scotsman2.0 wrote:So from your perspective, does this look like a pretty accurate academic order? I would imagine a lot of kids in Idaho want to go to Boise mainly for the football. And the city offers a different experience than Moscow or Pocatello, I suppose.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
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UofI has a very low ranking law school. They are an Ag school much like usu.
I'm no lawyer, but does the ranking matter all that much? Maybe to get a job initially, but once you have that job, your school doesn't matter all that much, right? Unless you wanna be a supreme court justice, maybe, then it's good to go to Harvard. idkslcagg wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:24 amBybs25 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:13 amYes. Boise is attractive for the social aspect not the academics. There really isnt a premier industry at Boise. UofI has their Law School ISU has a couple of premier places namely physical therepy and pharamcyflying_scotsman2.0 wrote:So from your perspective, does this look like a pretty accurate academic order? I would imagine a lot of kids in Idaho want to go to Boise mainly for the football. And the city offers a different experience than Moscow or Pocatello, I suppose.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
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UofI has a very low ranking law school. They are an Ag school much like usu.
For certain first jobs, your law school’s ranking matters a little.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 5:29 pmI'm no lawyer, but does the ranking matter all that much? Maybe to get a job initially, but once you have that job, your school doesn't matter all that much, right? Unless you wanna be a supreme court justice, maybe, then it's good to go to Harvard. idkslcagg wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:24 amBybs25 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:13 amYes. Boise is attractive for the social aspect not the academics. There really isnt a premier industry at Boise. UofI has their Law School ISU has a couple of premier places namely physical therepy and pharamcyflying_scotsman2.0 wrote:So from your perspective, does this look like a pretty accurate academic order? I would imagine a lot of kids in Idaho want to go to Boise mainly for the football. And the city offers a different experience than Moscow or Pocatello, I suppose.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
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UofI has a very low ranking law school. They are an Ag school much like usu.
Sounds like when I begin my path to become a high-powered, cutthroat, bloodthirsty, litigation-happy criminal defense attorney, I’m going to have to take my talents outside of Utah. I’d rather die than take my talents to one of those two trash universities.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 11:18 pmFor certain first jobs, your law school’s ranking matters a little.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 5:29 pmI'm no lawyer, but does the ranking matter all that much? Maybe to get a job initially, but once you have that job, your school doesn't matter all that much, right? Unless you wanna be a supreme court justice, maybe, then it's good to go to Harvard. idkslcagg wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:24 amBybs25 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 7:13 amYes. Boise is attractive for the social aspect not the academics. There really isnt a premier industry at Boise. UofI has their Law School ISU has a couple of premier places namely physical therepy and pharamcyflying_scotsman2.0 wrote:So from your perspective, does this look like a pretty accurate academic order? I would imagine a lot of kids in Idaho want to go to Boise mainly for the football. And the city offers a different experience than Moscow or Pocatello, I suppose.Bybs25 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 5:29 pmFrom someone who does college planning and living in Idaho I can tell you that Idaho State academically is near the top. I fixed it for you.LarryTheAggie wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 11:23 amI honestly think you are giving Boise too much credit. They are probably 5thflying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 13th, 2019, 9:43 amIt is actually incredible how football literally drug (dragged?) the entire university along with it. There are literally 5 schools with better academics in Utah than Boise, and Dixie is probably on par with them. Boise might be the 3rd best school in Idaho academically, but probably on par with BYU-I.
Good for them for having a good football team. Hopefully it never dies, cause I don't think there's much else to prop up the university.
If I had to rank them:
University of Idaho,
Idaho State University
BYUI
College of Idaho,
Boise State
Northwest Nazarene
But you are right the only reason Boise is even that high is because their football makes them a national brand. Though to be fair they have been making strides academically, I think they were just bumped up a Carnegie classification level.
Though I have also seen some rankings with Lewis and Clark state college ranked as high as Boise.
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UofI has a very low ranking law school. They are an Ag school much like usu.
The ranking that matters the most though is your class ranking, because legal hiring is largely regional and based on class ranking (meaning the lion’s share of Idaho lawyers even at the “bigger” Idaho firms went to U of I) KU is a “higher ranked” law school than U of I, but if anything, I felt that going to KU counted against me for certain law jobs in Idaho (just my feel based on interview questions).
IMO, best thing to do is to go to the best, most affordable school in the geographic area you’d like to work in and get yourself into the Top 10% to 20% of your class. Otherwise, you might come across as a carpetbagger.
Put another way, you’d be much better served going to BYU or Utah law if you want to work in Utah or U of I if you wanted to work in Idaho than forking over gobs of money for a Stanford, Harvard, etc. law degree.
There are a million different opinions on this, but this is mine.
After 17 years of practice in Chicago (at a litigation boutique for three years, a mid-size middle market firm of 250 lawyers for 10 years, and at a global firm with 4200 lawyers for four years), I hung up my spurs in 2011 and became a legal recruiter. While firms in tertiary markets tend to be less snobbish about your law school's ranking, certain firms in major markets simply do zero recruiting from any law schools outside the top tier. Summer associate classes consist almost entirely of students from top-tier law schools, and only a very small percentage of their class comes from a 2d- or 3d-tier school. And in those cases, you literally have to be the a top 5 student in the entire class to get a look from those firms. While many top firms will go pretty deep into the class rankings at top-tier schools, they will rarely go below the top 5 at a lower tier school.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 11:18 pmFor certain first jobs, your law school’s ranking matters a little.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 5:29 pmI'm no lawyer, but does the ranking matter all that much? Maybe to get a job initially, but once you have that job, your school doesn't matter all that much, right? Unless you wanna be a supreme court justice, maybe, then it's good to go to Harvard. idk
The ranking that matters the most though is your class ranking, because legal hiring is largely regional and based on class ranking (meaning the lion’s share of Idaho lawyers even at the “bigger” Idaho firms went to U of I) KU is a “higher ranked” law school than U of I, but if anything, I felt that going to KU counted against me for certain law jobs in Idaho (just my feel based on interview questions).
IMO, best thing to do is to go to the best, most affordable school in the geographic area you’d like to work in and get yourself into the Top 10% to 20% of your class. Otherwise, you might come across as a carpetbagger.
Put another way, you’d be much better served going to BYU or Utah law if you want to work in Utah or U of I if you wanted to work in Idaho than forking over gobs of money for a Stanford, Harvard, etc. law degree.
There are a million different opinions on this, but this is mine.
Interesting twist on all this: I just finished listening to "Hillbilly Elegy" by JD Vance. Great book, by the way. He grew up in extreme poverty in Appalachia. He was accepted to Yale Law. He discovered that with the need based scholarship available to him at Yale, it was actually cheaper for him to attend Yale than to attend Ohio State. So, depending on individual circumstances, the more prestigious school can actually be the least expensive.ChicAggie wrote: ↑February 18th, 2019, 10:43 amAfter 17 years of practice in Chicago (at a litigation boutique for three years, a mid-size middle market firm of 250 lawyers for 10 years, and at a global firm with 4200 lawyers for four years), I hung up my spurs in 2011 and became a legal recruiter. While firms in tertiary markets tend to be less snobbish about your law school's ranking, certain firms in major markets simply do zero recruiting from any law schools outside the top tier. Summer associate classes consist almost entirely of students from top-tier law schools, and only a very small percentage of their class comes from a 2d- or 3d-tier school. And in those cases, you literally have to be the a top 5 student in the entire class to get a look from those firms. While many top firms will go pretty deep into the class rankings at top-tier schools, they will rarely go below the top 5 at a lower tier school.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 11:18 pmFor certain first jobs, your law school’s ranking matters a little.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 5:29 pmI'm no lawyer, but does the ranking matter all that much? Maybe to get a job initially, but once you have that job, your school doesn't matter all that much, right? Unless you wanna be a supreme court justice, maybe, then it's good to go to Harvard. idk
The ranking that matters the most though is your class ranking, because legal hiring is largely regional and based on class ranking (meaning the lion’s share of Idaho lawyers even at the “bigger” Idaho firms went to U of I) KU is a “higher ranked” law school than U of I, but if anything, I felt that going to KU counted against me for certain law jobs in Idaho (just my feel based on interview questions).
IMO, best thing to do is to go to the best, most affordable school in the geographic area you’d like to work in and get yourself into the Top 10% to 20% of your class. Otherwise, you might come across as a carpetbagger.
Put another way, you’d be much better served going to BYU or Utah law if you want to work in Utah or U of I if you wanted to work in Idaho than forking over gobs of money for a Stanford, Harvard, etc. law degree.
There are a million different opinions on this, but this is mine.
In a tertiary market (SLC, Denver, Seattle, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Cleveland, et al.), the story is a bit different. In those markets, ineptimus's advice is likely generally correct in that the cost of going to Stanford is going to be a lot higher than the cost of going to BYU or Utah, and average partner compensation in Utah is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than compensation in, say, Silicon Valley or New York ($350K-$400K average partner compensation in SLC versus $1.2M-$1.5M in places like Silicon Valley and NYC; also average compensation for all attorneys in Utah runs between $75,295 and $99,564 -- compare that to the STARTING salary of $190,000 for a first year associate at most AmLaw 100 firms). Firms in Utah may not view someone who grew up in Utah and left to attend a top-tier school with a desire to return to practice in Utah as "carpet-bagger," but they will definitely have questions about why someone would go pay $60K in annual tuition (not to mention room and board) at Stanford versus $11K at God's school (which they probably attended and was good enough for them), only to return to Utah where compensation is SO much lower than in a major market. You'd better have a good story and good reason to want to return to Utah from a top-tier and far more expensive law school.
That said, attending a top tier law school is something you can hang your hat on for the rest of your career. It definitely carries a lot more weight when you are meeting with a potential client for the first time to say you attended Stanford or Harvard than the University of Idaho (or whatever). It gives you an immediate credibility that you may have to work a little harder to earn if you attend a lower-tier law school.
That is also true if you might look to move into an in-house role later in your career. My firm does more in-house placements than anyone in the world, and I can tell you that a significant percentage of clients seeking a new GC ask for only those candidates who attended at top 10 or top 20 law school.
IMHO, unless you are certain you want to spend your career in a regional or local firm in a tertiary market, you are almost always better off going to the best law school you can get into. I believe the investment pays off in the long run.
I guess I agree with most of this.ChicAggie wrote: ↑February 18th, 2019, 10:43 amAfter 17 years of practice in Chicago (at a litigation boutique for three years, a mid-size middle market firm of 250 lawyers for 10 years, and at a global firm with 4200 lawyers for four years), I hung up my spurs in 2011 and became a legal recruiter. While firms in tertiary markets tend to be less snobbish about your law school's ranking, certain firms in major markets simply do zero recruiting from any law schools outside the top tier. Summer associate classes consist almost entirely of students from top-tier law schools, and only a very small percentage of their class comes from a 2d- or 3d-tier school. And in those cases, you literally have to be the a top 5 student in the entire class to get a look from those firms. While many top firms will go pretty deep into the class rankings at top-tier schools, they will rarely go below the top 5 at a lower tier school.ineptimusprime wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 11:18 pmFor certain first jobs, your law school’s ranking matters a little.flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑February 16th, 2019, 5:29 pmI'm no lawyer, but does the ranking matter all that much? Maybe to get a job initially, but once you have that job, your school doesn't matter all that much, right? Unless you wanna be a supreme court justice, maybe, then it's good to go to Harvard. idk
The ranking that matters the most though is your class ranking, because legal hiring is largely regional and based on class ranking (meaning the lion’s share of Idaho lawyers even at the “bigger” Idaho firms went to U of I) KU is a “higher ranked” law school than U of I, but if anything, I felt that going to KU counted against me for certain law jobs in Idaho (just my feel based on interview questions).
IMO, best thing to do is to go to the best, most affordable school in the geographic area you’d like to work in and get yourself into the Top 10% to 20% of your class. Otherwise, you might come across as a carpetbagger.
Put another way, you’d be much better served going to BYU or Utah law if you want to work in Utah or U of I if you wanted to work in Idaho than forking over gobs of money for a Stanford, Harvard, etc. law degree.
There are a million different opinions on this, but this is mine.
In a tertiary market (SLC, Denver, Seattle, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Cleveland, et al.), the story is a bit different. In those markets, ineptimus's advice is likely generally correct in that the cost of going to Stanford is going to be a lot higher than the cost of going to BYU or Utah, and average partner compensation in Utah is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than compensation in, say, Silicon Valley or New York ($350K-$400K average partner compensation in SLC versus $1.2M-$1.5M in places like Silicon Valley and NYC; also average compensation for all attorneys in Utah runs between $75,295 and $99,564 -- compare that to the STARTING salary of $190,000 for a first year associate at most AmLaw 100 firms). Firms in Utah may not view someone who grew up in Utah and left to attend a top-tier school with a desire to return to practice in Utah as "carpet-bagger," but they will definitely have questions about why someone would go pay $60K in annual tuition (not to mention room and board) at Stanford versus $11K at God's school (which they probably attended and was good enough for them), only to return to Utah where compensation is SO much lower than in a major market. You'd better have a good story and good reason to want to return to Utah from a top-tier and far more expensive law school.
That said, attending a top tier law school is something you can hang your hat on for the rest of your career. It definitely carries a lot more weight when you are meeting with a potential client for the first time to say you attended Stanford or Harvard than the University of Idaho (or whatever). It gives you an immediate credibility that you may have to work a little harder to earn if you attend a lower-tier law school.
That is also true if you might look to move into an in-house role later in your career. My firm does more in-house placements than anyone in the world, and I can tell you that a significant percentage of clients seeking a new GC ask for only those candidates who attended at top 10 or top 20 law school.
IMHO, unless you are certain you want to spend your career in a regional or local firm in a tertiary market, you are almost always better off going to the best law school you can get into. I believe the investment pays off in the long run.