New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

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New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by JacobMcNeil » July 10th, 2019, 11:40 am

Let me know what you think and, as always, if you want me to write about something in particular.

Thanks for reading!

https://www.mwcconnection.com/2019/7/10 ... ry-problem



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by aceofspadeskb » July 10th, 2019, 12:19 pm

Good article and I agree with the premise.

If you're a snowflake stop reading now.



...



are you gone yet?




....





good.




Let's get BYU in the conference. We play them every year anyway so it would open up a spot on our schedule that we could fill with other intriguing opponents. Natural Geographical rivalry with Utah State. Recent rivalry with Boise State. And frankly, the rest of the conference hate 'em too. Sure they're a pain to deal with, but you can't argue that having them in the conference wouldn't make you more interested in what is happening outside of USU football each week during the conference schedule.

All that said, any concessions need to be reasonable(nowhere near what Boise got).



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by oleblu111 » July 10th, 2019, 12:22 pm

The problem is YBU does not want to be in the MWC.

Some MWC schools do not want them in the league, so we have a problem



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by YoungBloodAggie » July 10th, 2019, 12:26 pm

Natural Geographic is my favorite magazine. ;)
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by aceofspadeskb » July 10th, 2019, 12:36 pm

oleblu111 wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:22 pm
The problem is YBU does not want to be in the MWC.

Some MWC schools do not want them in the league, so we have a problem
I know.... I kind of wonder what strong-arming them would do. "So you want to play Mountain West Conference teams? Sorry. Join the conference and then we'll talk."



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by aggies22 » July 10th, 2019, 12:37 pm

oleblu111 wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:22 pm
The problem is YBU does not want to be in the MWC.

Some MWC schools do not want them in the league, so we have a problem
That's not a problem. Leave those tools where they are. The MWC schools that don't want them in the league are the smart ones.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by aggies22 » July 10th, 2019, 12:37 pm

aceofspadeskb wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:36 pm
oleblu111 wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:22 pm
The problem is YBU does not want to be in the MWC.

Some MWC schools do not want them in the league, so we have a problem
I know.... I kind of wonder what strong-arming them would do. "So you want to play Mountain West Conference teams? Sorry. Join the conference and then we'll talk."
I know what conference they can join. The Big Sky or the resurgent WAC.
Last edited by aggies22 on July 10th, 2019, 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by swordsman1989 » July 10th, 2019, 12:56 pm

I would make the case that 72 games against Colorado State would constitute a rivalry. It was just dormant for many years, with only three meetings between 1980 and 2010. But it has been played again for 8 straight years and the overall series is pretty close. The past eight meetings are split at 4 wins each, with the per game point differential being under 9 points. Since USU joined the MWC in 2013, the series is split at 3-3 and the average point differential is 9.33 points. For the criteria of the article, the last five games are at 3-2 (advantage CSU) and an average point differential of 8.3 points per game. In other words with USU and CSU, we have long historical rivals, who in recent years played close and competitive games.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by LKGates » July 10th, 2019, 1:14 pm

Man, we've had this discussion SO many times. Objectively, yes, BYU would bring some value to the conference. And you could argue that bringing them into the conference would be an opportunity to renegotiate the entire conference arrangement, including BSU's ridiculous financial arrangement. BUT, I think the intangible negatives outweigh the positives. They are an unreliable conference mate, and have been at the center of the disruption of three conferences. And the biggest impediment, as noted, is that they want nothing to do with it. I'd be happy to see BYU-P get Bednar'd (though I acknowledge it probably won't happen). Then we could stop having this discussion, and we could replace them on the cowardly Utes' schedule.

With regards to rivalries with other schools, I think that's coming along nicely. As mentioned, we've reopened some historic rivalries like CSU (34 - 39 - 2) and Wyoming (39 - 26 - 4) that are warming up nicely. We also have some more recent rivalries carried over from the WAC and even the Big West, with Nevada (6 - 18), and Boise (5 - 18). We really should be Boise's natural rival. We're physically closer to them than any other school. We just need to win more games.

Give it time.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by 2004AG » July 10th, 2019, 1:22 pm

aceofspadeskb wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:19 pm
Good article and I agree with the premise.

If you're a snowflake stop reading now.



...



are you gone yet?




....





good.




Let's get BYU in the conference. We play them every year anyway so it would open up a spot on our schedule that we could fill with other intriguing opponents. Natural Geographical rivalry with Utah State. Recent rivalry with Boise State. And frankly, the rest of the conference hate 'em too. Sure they're a pain to deal with, but you can't argue that having them in the conference wouldn't make you more interested in what is happening outside of USU football each week during the conference schedule.

All that said, any concessions need to be reasonable(nowhere near what Boise got).
Aggie fans would rather cut off their nose to spite their face.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by oleblu111 » July 10th, 2019, 1:36 pm

We should all keep in mind that as far as MWC schools refusing to play them, would fail because USU does not want to drop them, even if we did somehow refuse they can go to state government, and force Utah public schools to schedule like what they did with the ewe of ewe.

The pressure to play them would also come from many LDS USU fans.

The bottom line is they do not want to join the MWC so any discussion is wasted. I know I'm guilty of posting about it. Sorry about that.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Naked Bull Rider » July 10th, 2019, 1:51 pm

aceofspadeskb wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:19 pm
Good article and I agree with the premise.

If you're a snowflake stop reading now.



...



are you gone yet?




....





good.




Let's get BYU in the conference. We play them every year anyway so it would open up a spot on our schedule that we could fill with other intriguing opponents. Natural Geographical rivalry with Utah State. Recent rivalry with Boise State. And frankly, the rest of the conference hate 'em too. Sure they're a pain to deal with, but you can't argue that having them in the conference wouldn't make you more interested in what is happening outside of USU football each week during the conference schedule.

All that said, any concessions need to be reasonable(nowhere near what Boise got).
Unless the conference were able to drop a member like Hawaii or SJSU, adding the Y would bring the conference to 13 football members. How would you realign the divisions? Also would you want USU to be in the same division as the cougarettes, BSU, CSU, and AFA?

I’d be down to bring the Y in since they are basically already still a member based on how many MWC teams they play every year. However, I’d want a Texas school in too to bring the conference number to 14. I’d prefer SMU purely for the Dallas market and the perceived prestige. Houston would be ideal too but I don’t think they’d leave the AAC for anything but a P5.

New alignment:

Mountain- SMU, USU, CSU, BYU, AFA, NM, WYO
West- BSU, FSU, SDSU, SJSU, Hawaii, UNLV, Nevada

Would have to make sense financially to expand. The money in the Dallas market and ESPN’s love affair with BYU are the chips that could potentially make it worth it. BYU & SMU pair well together as private, WEALTHY, religious institutions that used to be good at football.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Full » July 10th, 2019, 3:27 pm

BYU by itself is worth more than an average MW team in a media deal. This means BYU would have to spread some of it’s media money around to get back into the conference. I don’t think they want to do that.

whispers- byu-p would be able to improve recruiting, fan engagement, and their entire athletic department if allowed in the conference. I really don’t want that.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Tetonkatest » July 10th, 2019, 3:32 pm

It's been talked about a lot. BYU doesn't want to join the MWC. And there are already MWC schools that will play BYU frequently, if not every year. USU and Boise State want BYU as a rivalry game.

So, it's time to forget about BYU. I saw that they also are probably not joining the American Athletic conference despite overtures from their Commissioner.

I think the MWC is fine as is, except for San Jose State. But if adding 2 Texas schools would help the TV contract, then the choices are probably from CUSA or the SunBelt. I doubt SMU is interested.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Murkymerk » July 10th, 2019, 3:44 pm

aggies22 wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:37 pm
aceofspadeskb wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:36 pm
oleblu111 wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 12:22 pm
The problem is YBU does not want to be in the MWC.

Some MWC schools do not want them in the league, so we have a problem
I know.... I kind of wonder what strong-arming them would do. "So you want to play Mountain West Conference teams? Sorry. Join the conference and then we'll talk."
I know what conference they can join. The Big Sky or the resurgent WAC.
The Big Sky may even let them join as football only so the rest of byu sports can stay in the mighty WCC. That way their men’s basketball team can still be guaranteed to finish every season ranked between 2-5 in the conference standings.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by brownjeans » July 10th, 2019, 4:14 pm

What makes that list a list of ACTUAL rivalries? Upon what foundation is that list created? Rivalries are emotional things, not things structured by number of games played or trophies attached. If no one feels anything - it's not a rivalry.

I think you have to be older than 50 to think of Wyoming as a serious rivalry. There were many, many years where the USU/Wyoming game was meaningless. I mean, the Mountain States Conference died in 1961. Wyoming joined the WAC and left USU behind. That rivalry is dying with the memories of the foggy-minded elderly Aggies.

Up until we joined the MWC, I didn't know we had a trophy for that game. It's not like I'm all that young either. Teams have to play conference games that matter with both sides winning their share for a true rivalry to be established.

USU DOES have recent conference ties to many other schools in the MWC (Fresno St., Boise St., San Diego St., San Jose St., Nevada, UNLV, Colorado St.), but Wyoming was out of our conference for too long. I just don't feel any rivalry juice with Wyoming.

I also think it helps to be in the same division - because you compete every year with those teams. Of the teams in the Mountain Division, I feel rivalry feelings with Boise St., Colorado St., Wyoming in that order.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by USU78 » July 10th, 2019, 4:21 pm

USU played CSU and Wyoming home and home annually in basketball and every other year in football 1962-1977. We called off the rivalry games to make room for the pcaa/bwc schedule.

But you're right. If you're under 50 you probably didn't see anything of those years. Wyoming in Logan was always my favorite game to watch.
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You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by JacobMcNeil » July 10th, 2019, 4:29 pm

While CSU and USU have a long history of competition in football, I couldn't find anything that would indicate either side considers it to be a true rivalry. CSU lists CU, AFA, and WYO as their rivals. USU lists BYU, UofU, and WYO as their rivals. I guess this raises a good question, when exactly does a rivalry become a rivalry? I think it is some combination of competitiveness, traditions surrounding the game, and length of game history. As of now, neither school seems to consider the other a genuine rival.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by brownjeans » July 10th, 2019, 4:32 pm

But why does USU list Wyo as a rivalry? If two teams haven't played a meaningful game in 50 years - what kind of rivalry is it?



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Turtle » July 10th, 2019, 4:53 pm

I have never heard that USU considers WYO rival. I am pretty sure many more Aggie fans would switch WYO for BSU in that list of three.

I get that the Wyoming game has a name and a "trophy" but I don't think that is what makes a rivalry. It is about fan engagement and competition.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by YoungBloodAggie » July 10th, 2019, 4:55 pm

Turtle wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 4:53 pm
I have never heard that USU considers WYO rival. I am pretty sure many more Aggie fans would switch WYO for BSU in that list of three.

I get that the Wyoming game has a name and a "trophy" but I don't think that is what makes a rivalry. It is about fan engagement and competition.
USU and WYO have both stated that they are a rivalry and play for a traveling trophy.


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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by oleblu111 » July 10th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Wyoming fans travel to Logan for the game, the trophy started after we finally got into the MWC. When both teams have a winning season on the line and USU loses to Wyoming then aggie fans will become engaged.

As one can see many aggie fans worry more about YBU than the Wyoming game which is wrong IMHO, because getting by the pokes gets us closer to a division championship.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by aggies22 » July 10th, 2019, 5:33 pm

I don't want to invite byu just for the sake of "rivalry". We can play those tools year in and year out to help them fill their schedule and not have the disruption of adding them to the conference and still remain "rivals". Besides, it's like having a guaranteed win on our non-conference schedule, like scheduling Tennessee Tech, Stony Brook or one of the Big Sky schools.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by TheAKAggie » July 10th, 2019, 5:37 pm

swordsman1989 wrote:I would make the case that 72 games against Colorado State would constitute a rivalry. It was just dormant for many years, with only three meetings between 1980 and 2010. But it has been played again for 8 straight years and the overall series is pretty close. The past eight meetings are split at 4 wins each, with the per game point differential being under 9 points. Since USU joined the MWC in 2013, the series is split at 3-3 and the average point differential is 9.33 points. For the criteria of the article, the last five games are at 3-2 (advantage CSU) and an average point differential of 8.3 points per game. In other words with USU and CSU, we have long historical rivals, who in recent years played close and competitive games.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by brownjeans » July 10th, 2019, 7:22 pm

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 4:55 pm
USU and WYO have both stated that they are a rivalry and play for a traveling trophy.
USU and WYO don't state things, people state things. Who is stating that we are a rivalry?



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by USU78 » July 10th, 2019, 7:53 pm

My observation is that CSU and Wyoming are good draws in Logan for football, behind only the pukes, boogars, and boazybunch.


You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Turtle » July 10th, 2019, 9:07 pm

I'm not saying I don't enjoy Bridger's Battle, but as a 23 year old, my experience as an Aggie would say Boise is a bigger rival than Wyoming. I care about every game, but the one against Boise carries extra weight for me, and I don't think I'm alone, especially in my age demographic. I'd put the Boise rivalry on par with the BYU rivalry.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by YoungBloodAggie » July 10th, 2019, 9:09 pm

Turtle wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 9:07 pm
I'm not saying I don't enjoy Bridger's Battle, but as a 23 year old, my experience as an Aggie would say Boise is a bigger rival than Wyoming. I care about every game, but the one against Boise carries extra weight for me, and I don't think I'm alone, especially in my age demographic. I'd put the Boise rivalry on par with the BYU rivalry.
Yeah, but I don't think Boise feels the same way. Pretty sure we are way down the list for Boise for games they care about. Maybe 5th or 6th some years.


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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Turtle » July 10th, 2019, 9:11 pm

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 9:09 pm
Turtle wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 9:07 pm
I'm not saying I don't enjoy Bridger's Battle, but as a 23 year old, my experience as an Aggie would say Boise is a bigger rival than Wyoming. I care about every game, but the one against Boise carries extra weight for me, and I don't think I'm alone, especially in my age demographic. I'd put the Boise rivalry on par with the BYU rivalry.
Yeah, but I don't think Boise feels the same way. Pretty sure we are way down the list for Boise for games they care about. Maybe 5th or 6th some years.
That's a fair point. But does Wyoming care about the USU game more so than a different MWC game?



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by WAaggieFan » July 10th, 2019, 9:17 pm

brownjeans wrote:
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 4:55 pm
USU and WYO have both stated that they are a rivalry and play for a traveling trophy.
USU and WYO don't state things, people state things. Who is stating that we are a rivalry?
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CSU is more of a rivalry type game that’s been close of late, gone back and forth, and has had conference implications.

Aggies are in the same division as the donkeys and if USU would keep them out of championship games through outright defeat a couple times it would become an immediate and intense rivalry.


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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by slcagg » July 10th, 2019, 9:37 pm

So why do we struggle with bsu so much. BYU and them have been competitive and we have been competitive with BYU, but we seem to have not been able to get over the hump with Boise.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by Full » July 10th, 2019, 9:52 pm

Turtle wrote:I'm not saying I don't enjoy Bridger's Battle, but as a 23 year old, my experience as an Aggie would say Boise is a bigger rival than Wyoming. I care about every game, but the one against Boise carries extra weight for me, and I don't think I'm alone, especially in my age demographic. I'd put the Boise rivalry on par with the BYU rivalry.
As a 23 year old you could have been alive for the last three USU wins in 1996, 1997, and 2015. 3-15 over the last 23 years means USU needs wins before Boise will call USU a rival.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by AggieFBObsession » July 10th, 2019, 10:09 pm

slcagg wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 9:37 pm
So why do we struggle with bsu so much. BYU and them have been competitive and we have been competitive with BYU, but we seem to have not been able to get over the hump with Boise.
Because Boise is a much better football program and recruits better. Byu is just a hyperbole school and that includes everything football.

We still haven't caught up with bsu on the football field.



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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by MWCFAN12 » July 10th, 2019, 11:13 pm

LKGates wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 1:14 pm
Man, we've had this discussion SO many times. Objectively, yes, BYU would bring some value to the conference. And you could argue that bringing them into the conference would be an opportunity to renegotiate the entire conference arrangement, including BSU's ridiculous financial arrangement. BUT, I think the intangible negatives outweigh the positives. They are an unreliable conference mate, and have been at the center of the disruption of three conferences. And the biggest impediment, as noted, is that they want nothing to do with it. I'd be happy to see BYU-P get Bednar'd (though I acknowledge it probably won't happen). Then we could stop having this discussion, and we could replace them on the cowardly Utes' schedule.

With regards to rivalries with other schools, I think that's coming along nicely. As mentioned, we've reopened some historic rivalries like CSU (34 - 39 - 2) and Wyoming (39 - 26 - 4) that are warming up nicely. We also have some more recent rivalries carried over from the WAC and even the Big West, with Nevada (6 - 18), and Boise (5 - 18). We really should be Boise's natural rival. We're physically closer to them than any other school. We just need to win more games.

Give it time.
I think there is more to being rival than just geography. Yes it plays a part.

I think our most natural rivalry is CSU. We have the most in common with them.

Land grand school. *
Agriculture school. *
Research school. * ( they out do us here last time I looked )
College town. *
Douche P5 school in state *
Private G5 school in state. *
Several extensions in state. *
Strong aerospace engineering field. *
Overlooked by media own state. *
Conservative compared to P5 in their state *
Is really the best school in state. *


I have always felt they were nearly a sister school.
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Re: New MW Connection Article: MWC Rivalries Stink

Post by thegreendalegelf » July 11th, 2019, 7:52 am

Wyoming is a rival. No doubt about it. While the games haven't been meaningful, there is a major overlap of fans. Most of the biggest rivalries come from two teams playing at the same level, swapping wins, with fan bases that interact with each other consistently. While there are exceptions, this is the basic formula. In the last 4 years its 2-2. In the last 10 games (since 2003) its 5-5.

It is not a rivalry like vs BYU or Utah, but it is a small rivalry.

Also we should 100% be calling this "The Rodeo." That is an incredible rivalry name. I mean I Bridger's Battle, but the Rodeo is incredible.



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