P5 Games

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P5 Games

Post by trombone_ninja » August 31st, 2019, 8:07 pm

Anyone else notice that the P5 teams we play are always in a good run of form every time we play them? Wake Forest is pretty good this year and will probably go to a bowl game. Tennessee, who just lost to Georgia State, were good in ‘14 and went to a bowl game. Same goes for Michigan State last year, but BYU got to play them the season they went 3-9 or something and were able to beat them (and they get Tennessee this year and played Texas during some down years).

When are we going to get the lucky draw of playing some P5 teams when they’re down?

For the record, as gutted as I am about yesterday’s result I’m optimistic about the season as well as the team’s ability to hang with just about anyone, especially after some more time together. I think we get over that P5 hump eventually under Gary, but man, I can’t help but think our scheduling has been a little unlucky


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Re: P5 Games

Post by blueaggie » August 31st, 2019, 8:17 pm

Boise also picked a great year to play FSU. The problem with BYU is now it is a no-win situation for them. If they win it's no big deal but if they lose it is a bad loss. I wouldn't want to play Tennessee next week. On another note about the game last night is that the game should have been played in Logan. Please no more two for one! Hopefully the team will learn from the loss like we did last year and have another great season
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Re: P5 Games

Post by Jjoey53 » August 31st, 2019, 10:12 pm

blueaggie wrote:Boise also picked a great year to play FSU. The problem with BYU is now it is a no-win situation for them. If they win it's no big deal but if they lose it is a bad loss. I wouldn't want to play Tennessee next week. On another note about the game last night is that the game should have been played in Logan. Please no more two for one! Hopefully the team will learn from the loss like we did last year and have another great season
Go Aggies!

The only reason it was a 2 for 1 is that Utah crapped out on coming here in 2014 and Barnes had to schedule a home game quickly. The WF AD was on the NCAA committee with Barnes and the rest is history. Y


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Re: P5 Games

Post by sdiggety » August 31st, 2019, 10:16 pm

I have to disagree with this. We have drawn plenty of games with p5 teams we should have beaten. It's the infamous curse. But to beat a crappy team in a downward trending year wouldn't be satisfying. To me, utah state football isn't about obsessing over what tag people have on their conference, it's about winning a MW championship and playing in the big games with good opponents and winning.

In my opinion, USU struggles with an inferiority complex. We just don't seem to have that Micheal Jordan / Tom Brady winning juice to win in these tough close games. I think if we get a player or coach that brings that in and infects the whole squad, we break the curse.

Love might be one of the most talented QB's we'll ever have. He has good command over the offense. If he could develop that killer instinct in the last moments, we would win the close ones in the end zone rather than having it end with interceptions.
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Re: P5 Games

Post by FloridaAggie13 » August 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm

Disagree. Auburn was down in 2011 and breaking in a new QB. Wisconsin was down in 2012 and USC was average in 2013. BYU has been below average since 2012.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by Machismo » August 31st, 2019, 10:30 pm

sdiggety wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:16 pm
I have to disagree with this. We have drawn plenty of games with p5 teams we should have beaten. It's the infamous curse. But to beat a crappy team in a downward trending year wouldn't be satisfying. To me, utah state football isn't about obsessing over what tag people have on their conference, it's about winning a MW championship and playing in the big games with good opponents and winning.

In my opinion, USU struggles with an inferiority complex. We just don't seem to have that Micheal Jordan / Tom Brady winning juice to win in these tough close games. I think if we get a player or coach that brings that in and infects the whole squad, we break the curse.

Love might be one of the most talented QB's we'll ever have. He has good command over the offense. If he could develop that killer instinct in the last moments, we would win the close ones in the end zone rather than having it end with interceptions.
This game should have humbled Jordan L. the entire Team and coaching staff. Everyone had said the hype was not effecting him, I say that it's human nature to get sort of over confident when EVERYONE from Dan Patrick to Jim Rome are giving you a lot of warm fuzzies. I was afraid of this, a ton of pats on the back and all the Hiesman hype with the little candies. It happend to CK as well look how that turned out. I was at one of the practices and Chuckie took a knee to take a phone call, I thought that's weird. A kid can get star struck, totally understandable.
A couple of those picks looked like it was just JL trying to do to much, overconfidence? Perhaps... This loss should ground these guys and hopefully it does. If we think we are going to compete for a Conference title then we'd Better get it figured out quick, especially that secondary.
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Re: P5 Games

Post by LarryTheAggie » August 31st, 2019, 10:32 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm
Disagree. Auburn was down in 2011 and breaking in a new QB. Wisconsin was down in 2012 and USC was average in 2013. BYU has been below average since 2012.
Wisconsin went to the rose bowl that year...



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Re: P5 Games

Post by JSHarvey » August 31st, 2019, 10:45 pm

We should have won last night's game. We need the drive to just keep using what is working and keep putting points on the board. Both teams last night had multiple chances to put the game away - neither was able to do so until Wake woke up at the end. The fact is Wake eventually stepped up and we didn't (although the defense tried very very hard to save us anyway). I think if Wells AND YOST were still here we would have won it (they had finally learned that more points is almost always a good thing). Hopefully as has been said the COACHES and team learn that you keep playing for points right to end or until you have an *insurmountable* lead (four scores or more).


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Re: P5 Games

Post by bluegrouse » August 31st, 2019, 10:51 pm

We can’t control whether teams are up or down. What we can control is play calling, mistakes and penalties. If we had taken care of what we control last night, we win that game by double digits.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by GameFAQSAggie » August 31st, 2019, 10:53 pm

JSHarvey wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:45 pm
We should have won last night's game. We need the drive to just keep using what is working and keep putting points on the board. Both teams last night had multiple chances to put the game away - neither was able to do so until Wake woke up at the end. The fact is Wake eventually stepped up and we didn't (although the defense tried very very hard to save us anyway). I think if Wells AND YOST were still here we would have won it (they had finally learned that more points is almost always a good thing). Hopefully as has been said the COACHES and team learn that you keep playing for points right to end or until you have an *insurmountable* lead (four scores or more).
It's kind of funny that after losses to Utah and USC at the beginning of Wells first year, people were saying we would have won those games if we still have Gary. Then we lose to Wake Forest in Gary's return and people are saying we win if we still have Wells and Yost.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by FloridaAggie13 » August 31st, 2019, 10:59 pm

LarryTheAggie wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:32 pm
FloridaAggie13 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm
Disagree. Auburn was down in 2011 and breaking in a new QB. Wisconsin was down in 2012 and USC was average in 2013. BYU has been below average since 2012.
Wisconsin went to the rose bowl that year...
They finished 8-6 and their coach was on the hot seat.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by JFW_AGGIES » August 31st, 2019, 11:09 pm

sdiggety wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:16 pm
I have to disagree with this. We have drawn plenty of games with p5 teams we should have beaten. It's the infamous curse. But to beat a crappy team in a downward trending year wouldn't be satisfying. To me, utah state football isn't about obsessing over what tag people have on their conference, it's about winning a MW championship and playing in the big games with good opponents and winning.

In my opinion, USU struggles with an inferiority complex. We just don't seem to have that Micheal Jordan / Tom Brady winning juice to win in these tough close games. I think if we get a player or coach that brings that in and infects the whole squad, we break the curse.

Love might be one of the most talented QB's we'll ever have. He has good command over the offense. If he could develop that killer instinct in the last moments, we would win the close ones in the end zone rather than having it end with interceptions.
The team reflects it's fans, we as fans need to quite with the I knew we'd s*** the attitude!! Good things happen with positive people!!



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Re: P5 Games

Post by Jjoey53 » August 31st, 2019, 11:29 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote:
LarryTheAggie wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:32 pm
FloridaAggie13 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm
Disagree. Auburn was down in 2011 and breaking in a new QB. Wisconsin was down in 2012 and USC was average in 2013. BYU has been below average since 2012.
Wisconsin went to the rose bowl that year...
They finished 8-6 and their coach was on the hot seat.

And their coach was replaced by.......


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Re: P5 Games

Post by FloridaAggie13 » August 31st, 2019, 11:40 pm

Jjoey53 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 11:29 pm
FloridaAggie13 wrote:
LarryTheAggie wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:32 pm
FloridaAggie13 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm
Disagree. Auburn was down in 2011 and breaking in a new QB. Wisconsin was down in 2012 and USC was average in 2013. BYU has been below average since 2012.
Wisconsin went to the rose bowl that year...
They finished 8-6 and their coach was on the hot seat.

And their coach was replaced by.......


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By GA! Who, by the way beat out the current Wake Forest coach for the job.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » September 1st, 2019, 6:29 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:59 pm
LarryTheAggie wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:32 pm
FloridaAggie13 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm
Disagree. Auburn was down in 2011 and breaking in a new QB. Wisconsin was down in 2012 and USC was average in 2013. BYU has been below average since 2012.
Wisconsin went to the rose bowl that year...
They finished 8-6 and their coach was on the hot seat.
And went 4-4 in the big ten. They were only in the rose Bowl because Ohio state and penn state were punished by the NCAA and couldnt play in the postseason. And nobody should ever make the point that wake forest is a tough p5 game. Other than 2006 and 2007 they have either been bad or mediocre over the past 25 years. I'll eat my words if wake has a great year, but I would bet they finish around 6-6.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by swordsman1989 » September 1st, 2019, 6:35 am

Auburn may have been down in 2011. But USU was coming off a 4-8 campaign, and Auburn had won a national championship in their previous game.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by AGNUMPI » September 1st, 2019, 7:04 am

trombone_ninja wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 8:07 pm
Anyone else notice that the P5 teams we play are always in a good run of form every time we play them? Wake Forest is pretty good this year and will probably go to a bowl game. Tennessee, who just lost to Georgia State, were good in ‘14 and went to a bowl game. Same goes for Michigan State last year, but BYU got to play them the season they went 3-9 or something and were able to beat them (and they get Tennessee this year and played Texas during some down years).

When are we going to get the lucky draw of playing some P5 teams when they’re down?

For the record, as gutted as I am about yesterday’s result I’m optimistic about the season as well as the team’s ability to hang with just about anyone, especially after some more time together. I think we get over that P5 hump eventually under Gary, but man, I can’t help but think our scheduling has been a little unlucky
Almost every time BYU has defeated a P5 opponent it has been because they played them in a down year. They beat P5s on some years that we beat them.

Regarding WF, sometimes a team is just a bad matchup for us. I'm hoping that is the case and we can get things sorted out going forward. We gained 600 yards, but gave up almost 600 as well. If we give up even close to 600 yards in very many of our games this is going to be a long journey.


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Re: P5 Games

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » September 1st, 2019, 7:39 am

swordsman1989 wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 6:35 am
Auburn may have been down in 2011. But USU was coming off a 4-8 campaign, and Auburn had won a national championship in their previous game.
Auburn would have been a massive win. They were the defendidng champs and had a 15 game winning streak. Probably the most heartbreaking loss as an aggie football fan. We also probably have a banner year in 2011 instead of 2012 if we get that win. Doubt we lose all the heartbreakers that followed.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by Aggie84025 » September 1st, 2019, 8:14 am

GameFAQSAggie wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:53 pm
JSHarvey wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:45 pm
We should have won last night's game. We need the drive to just keep using what is working and keep putting points on the board. Both teams last night had multiple chances to put the game away - neither was able to do so until Wake woke up at the end. The fact is Wake eventually stepped up and we didn't (although the defense tried very very hard to save us anyway). I think if Wells AND YOST were still here we would have won it (they had finally learned that more points is almost always a good thing). Hopefully as has been said the COACHES and team learn that you keep playing for points right to end or until you have an *insurmountable* lead (four scores or more).
It's kind of funny that after losses to Utah and USC at the beginning of Wells first year, people were saying we would have won those games if we still have Gary. Then we lose to Wake Forest in Gary's return and people are saying we win if we still have Wells and Yost.


Wells and being agressive in play calling were not used very often. He was ridiculed many time for aggressive play calling.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by coolag » September 1st, 2019, 9:45 am

JFW_AGGIES wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 11:09 pm
sdiggety wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:16 pm
I have to disagree with this. We have drawn plenty of games with p5 teams we should have beaten. It's the infamous curse. But to beat a crappy team in a downward trending year wouldn't be satisfying. To me, utah state football isn't about obsessing over what tag people have on their conference, it's about winning a MW championship and playing in the big games with good opponents and winning.

In my opinion, USU struggles with an inferiority complex. We just don't seem to have that Micheal Jordan / Tom Brady winning juice to win in these tough close games. I think if we get a player or coach that brings that in and infects the whole squad, we break the curse.

Love might be one of the most talented QB's we'll ever have. He has good command over the offense. If he could develop that killer instinct in the last moments, we would win the close ones in the end zone rather than having it end with interceptions.
The team reflects it's fans, we as fans need to quite with the I knew we'd s*** the attitude!! Good things happen with positive people!!
So does Nebraska reflect its fans that have had like a million sell outs in a row?



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Re: P5 Games

Post by jamesda3asu » September 3rd, 2019, 7:22 am

trombone_ninja wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 8:07 pm
Anyone else notice that the P5 teams we play are always in a good run of form every time we play them? Wake Forest is pretty good this year and will probably go to a bowl game. Tennessee, who just lost to Georgia State, were good in ‘14 and went to a bowl game. Same goes for Michigan State last year, but BYU got to play them the season they went 3-9 or something and were able to beat them (and they get Tennessee this year and played Texas during some down years).

When are we going to get the lucky draw of playing some P5 teams when they’re down?

For the record, as gutted as I am about yesterday’s result I’m optimistic about the season as well as the team’s ability to hang with just about anyone, especially after some more time together. I think we get over that P5 hump eventually under Gary, but man, I can’t help but think our scheduling has been a little unlucky
We were terrible in 2014 when you guys beat us at your place. Clawson's first year we finished 3-9



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Re: P5 Games

Post by aggies22 » September 3rd, 2019, 8:16 am

LarryTheAggie wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:32 pm
FloridaAggie13 wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:23 pm
Disagree. Auburn was down in 2011 and breaking in a new QB. Wisconsin was down in 2012 and USC was average in 2013. BYU has been below average since 2012.
Wisconsin went to the rose bowl that year...
And had Melvin Gordon at running back.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by aggies22 » September 3rd, 2019, 8:18 am

coolag wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 9:45 am
JFW_AGGIES wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 11:09 pm
sdiggety wrote:
August 31st, 2019, 10:16 pm
I have to disagree with this. We have drawn plenty of games with p5 teams we should have beaten. It's the infamous curse. But to beat a crappy team in a downward trending year wouldn't be satisfying. To me, utah state football isn't about obsessing over what tag people have on their conference, it's about winning a MW championship and playing in the big games with good opponents and winning.

In my opinion, USU struggles with an inferiority complex. We just don't seem to have that Micheal Jordan / Tom Brady winning juice to win in these tough close games. I think if we get a player or coach that brings that in and infects the whole squad, we break the curse.

Love might be one of the most talented QB's we'll ever have. He has good command over the offense. If he could develop that killer instinct in the last moments, we would win the close ones in the end zone rather than having it end with interceptions.
The team reflects it's fans, we as fans need to quite with the I knew we'd s*** the attitude!! Good things happen with positive people!!
So does Nebraska reflect its fans that have had like a million sell outs in a row?
I think that's more of an only game in town/the entire state kind of thing.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by Roy McAvoy » September 3rd, 2019, 8:20 am

My biggest issue in this games is we go into them just trying to play straight forward and for the most part, conservative football. Go watch highlights of Boise and other G5 teams that win these games. They play ultra aggressive and bring in some sort of trickery in there to help win. We never do it and think we just can just go straight up with them. Overall they do have better athletes and we need to do something to neutralize it.

Heck even Auburn with a true freshman QB beat Oregon this weekend at the last second by being ultra aggressive. They needed a FG to tie and were in range with only about 20 seconds left. Instead of getting ready for the kick (as we would've done), they went ultra aggressive and fast and moved the ball 30 yards in those final 20 seconds and ended up scoring a touchdown to end the game and win outright.
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Re: P5 Games

Post by NVAggie » September 3rd, 2019, 9:00 am

Gary is a Whittingham guy. Whittingham is always running it at the end of the game with a lead. They typically make that 5-8 minute drive at the end of the game that seals the victory. We must not have the horses for that.
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Re: P5 Games

Post by thegreendalegelf » September 3rd, 2019, 9:21 am

NVAggie wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 9:00 am
Gary is a Whittingham guy. Whittingham is always running it at the end of the game with a lead. They typically make that 5-8 minute drive at the end of the game that seals the victory. We must not have the horses for that.
Exactly look at what Utah did at the end of the holy war. 9:19 minute drive to run out the clock. 3rd and 4 is a risky run but making them burn a time out for sure is probably better than a possible incomplete pass and letting them save a time out. 3rd and 4 is right on the border of if we should run it or not. I don't have an issue with the call, it certainly follows the Whittingham coaching plan.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by AgMac » September 3rd, 2019, 9:33 am

NVAggie wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 9:00 am
Gary is a Whittingham guy. Whittingham is always running it at the end of the game with a lead. They typically make that 5-8 minute drive at the end of the game that seals the victory. We must not have the horses for that.
You're absolutely correct (and so is Roy). It isn't that being conservative and running at the end of the game is, per se, a bone-headed coaching decision. It's just that it isn't the right decision for USU against P5 programs. We've proven it time and time again. We can't be conventional against bigger, faster, deeper opponents. We need to be aggressive and creative to win.

I thought our O-line did a great job on Friday. But to have the mentality of "we need to be able to line up at the end of the game and push them back 4 yards" just isn't realistic against P5 programs. Let's save that mentality for New Mexico. For the P5 road game where we have the lead with 3:00 minutes left and the ball, let's venture outside of the Tecmo Bowl playbook.
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Re: P5 Games

Post by Aglicious » September 3rd, 2019, 12:37 pm

AgMac wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 9:33 am
NVAggie wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 9:00 am
Gary is a Whittingham guy. Whittingham is always running it at the end of the game with a lead. They typically make that 5-8 minute drive at the end of the game that seals the victory. We must not have the horses for that.
You're absolutely correct (and so is Roy). It isn't that being conservative and running at the end of the game is, per se, a bone-headed coaching decision. It's just that it isn't the right decision for USU against P5 programs. We've proven it time and time again. We can't be conventional against bigger, faster, deeper opponents. We need to be aggressive and creative to win.

I thought our O-line did a great job on Friday. But to have the mentality of "we need to be able to line up at the end of the game and push them back 4 yards" just isn't realistic against P5 programs. Let's save that mentality for New Mexico. For the P5 road game where we have the lead with 3:00 minutes left and the ball, let's venture outside of the Tecmo Bowl playbook.
I agree but would argue that it is a boneheaded decision to run in that situation if the thinking is that it causes WF to use their last timeout if we don't convert. For one, whether the coaches are aware or not, having this "fall back" or secondary or lesser objective in mind already plants the idea in your own team's head that they may not succeed on the called running play and it also affects the mentality of the defending team knowing that they can be aggressive and sell out to stop what they know is coming. Coaches have to know they are helping to set the mental table so to speak before the ball is even snapped. Just like we knew they would try to shove Carney down our throat 3 times on the 1 yard line, it fired our guys up knowing what they were going to do and demoralized their OL knowing they weren't going to be able to do it. The minute their coaches decided to vary from that and go away from it, their players had hope that they could do exactly what they had been successful at doing all game which was throwing jump balls to taller receivers.

Secondly, this tactic would be effective if this were the NFL but it is horribly flawed thinking at the collegiate level where offenses don't even need timeouts to march down the field with the clock automatically stopping after every first down. Having timeouts is more important to your defense in college (as evidenced by us needing all three at the end of the game to even attempt a goal line stand). More than 2 min. left in college football with the ball in your hands in an eternity and the entire field is in play in college with basically free stops of the clock on 1st downs. It's not the NFL where all the plays are forced to be to the outside to get out of bounds and the defense lets you have the middle of the field.

The point is someone on the staff needs to get a better understanding of the risk/reward of continuing to run your same offense late in games where the primary goal should always be the same - go move the ball and score points. Not getting caught up in the possibility of reaching some secondary goal of killing off an opponent's timeouts as some sort of consolation prize.

It worried me when GA was asked prior to the season about the rumors that the offense would still play fast and he would confirm it but was always sure to add a comment about also being able to change the pace or style as needed for a game situation. That second to last drive and the numerous other ones where we went 3-and-out after holding a small lead is what I was afraid he was talking about.



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Re: P5 Games

Post by bwcrc » September 3rd, 2019, 3:13 pm

That elusive P5 road win will come and the result will probably be similar to tossing the ybu kitty off of our back. While it is true ybu's talent level has fallen off some and ours has substantially increased, it is still a rivalry game where anything can happen. The road win in provo three years ago instilled a degree of confidence in the entire program of being able to walk into that stadium knowing we can crush ybu. I think getting that road win against a decent P5 team will have a similar effect. We have come tantalizing close, especially the last two years now. Ten years ago most of us would have been ecstatic walking away from any P5 road loss by only three points. Once we get that P5 win on the road, the confidence will carry forward.

I agree with others that we need to be more aggressive, especially in these P5 road games. There is not a grand expectation outside of USU of a win in most of these games, so there is a lot less of a downside to being aggressive and having fun with some trick plays. Being conservative has not worked yet, so mixing it up does not really risk much of a different expected outcome by outsiders.



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BigBlueDart
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Re: P5 Games

Post by BigBlueDart » September 3rd, 2019, 3:19 pm

Just for kicks and giggles, here are the SP+ rankings of the P5 teams that the MWC played this past week (or two).

22. Missouri
29. USC
42. Florida St
46. Wake Forest
55. Colorado
65. Purdue
78. Arizona

I'm not making any points. I was just wondering where these teams were relative to each other and thought I'd throw this information into the conversation.
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