Sanford headed to Minnesota

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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by brownjeans » January 3rd, 2020, 11:47 am

Aggieiester wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:40 am
Maybe you can straighten this out for me, you have concerns that Gary is going to turn USU in to the UofU 2.0 but then accuse Gary of forcing an offensive coordinator to keep an offense that is the exact opposite of the UofU formula? Which one is it that you are "concerned" about? Also what is so bad about having a physical, elite defensive program that finishes at the top of the conference nearly every year?
The problem isn't the system, it's the idea of a defensive-minded HC not understanding offense and interfering with the offense because of the HC's ideas about offense. That's what has happened at UofU. Whit has constantly interfered, they've had poor to OK results, and they've had a carousel of OCs .

Why? Because if I'm an OC and I have a way of doing things, and you hire me to be your OC and then tell me how to do it, I'll likely not do as good a job as I would if you just let me be me. So you'll be unsatisfied and fire me. Or, I might do just good enough for you to not fire me, but I'll leave for a chance of being free to be me as soon as I can. In either case the team is only getting OK results and it starts a cycle of OK at best and poor at worst offensive results. Carry that forward a few years and it becomes harder and harder to get good offensive players and coaches. This is my fear.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by 2004AG » January 3rd, 2020, 11:51 am

brownjeans wrote:
Aggieiester wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:32 am
Huge stretch there to conclude that Gary interfered with his ability to do his job from that. Here's a quote from Sanford who said it was "awesome" learning different terminology.

Q: Will Aggie fans see a similar offense this fall as compared to last year?

Sanford: "We knew there were six new coaches coming in, seven or eight including graduate assistants and off the field quality control-type coaches. We figured it was more of a natural transition for seven or eight of us to learn the terminology from last year, rather than 45 offensive players to learn our terminology or my terminology. That's something I've never actually done in a new environment, and it's been awesome. I've really enjoyed learning the system and also putting our wrinkles on it, as well. I think our players have really enjoyed that combination and there will be a lot similarity. The biggest thing is we want to have an identity in what we do. We want to do whatever is needed of us on offense for us to hoist that Mountain West championship trophy. If that means scoring 55 points a game, so be it. If that means controlling the football, the clock and being there when our defense is in a battle for their lives, we want to be that for our defense. What we're really looking for is to play championship offensive football. Stats are stats, but championships are what we're really looking for."

Seems like all of it is coach speak and not "clues" as to who forced who to do what.
Sounds like a guy who knows how to toe the line and make his employer happy.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that Sanford and Gary were in the same page and mutually agreed on the offense ?


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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Aggieiester » January 3rd, 2020, 11:57 am

brownjeans wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:47 am
Aggieiester wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:40 am
Maybe you can straighten this out for me, you have concerns that Gary is going to turn USU in to the UofU 2.0 but then accuse Gary of forcing an offensive coordinator to keep an offense that is the exact opposite of the UofU formula? Which one is it that you are "concerned" about? Also what is so bad about having a physical, elite defensive program that finishes at the top of the conference nearly every year?
The problem isn't the system, it's the idea of a defensive-minded HC not understanding offense and interfering with the offense because of the HC's ideas about offense. That's what has happened at UofU. Whit has constantly interfered, they've had poor to OK results, and they've had a carousel of OCs .

Why? Because if I'm an OC and I have a way of doing things, and you hire me to be your OC and then tell me how to do it, I'll likely not do as good a job as I would if you just let me be me. So you'll be unsatisfied and fire me. Or, I might do just good enough for you to not fire me, but I'll leave for a chance of being free to be me as soon as I can. In either case the team is only getting OK results and it starts a cycle of OK at best and poor at worst offensive results. Carry that forward a few years and it becomes harder and harder to get good offensive players and coaches. This is my fear.
Again, explain to me why a defensive minded coach (GA) would force an OC to run a no huddle, no time of possession offense? Your hypothesis is wrong.
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Aggie84025 » January 3rd, 2020, 11:57 am

brownjeans wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:47 am
Aggieiester wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:40 am
Maybe you can straighten this out for me, you have concerns that Gary is going to turn USU in to the UofU 2.0 but then accuse Gary of forcing an offensive coordinator to keep an offense that is the exact opposite of the UofU formula? Which one is it that you are "concerned" about? Also what is so bad about having a physical, elite defensive program that finishes at the top of the conference nearly every year?
The problem isn't the system, it's the idea of a defensive-minded HC not understanding offense and interfering with the offense because of the HC's ideas about offense. That's what has happened at UofU. Whit has constantly interfered, they've had poor to OK results, and they've had a carousel of OCs .

Why? Because if I'm an OC and I have a way of doing things, and you hire me to be your OC and then tell me how to do it, I'll likely not do as good a job as I would if you just let me be me. So you'll be unsatisfied and fire me. Or, I might do just good enough for you to not fire me, but I'll leave for a chance of being free to be me as soon as I can. In either case the team is only getting OK results and it starts a cycle of OK at best and poor at worst offensive results. Carry that forward a few years and it becomes harder and harder to get good offensive players and coaches. This is my fear.
[/quote

I have no knowledge of Sanford being unhappy at Utah State so I don't think he left because of that but he left because he had a great opportunity at a power 5 program for probably one of the top two or three up and coming coaches. Which I certainly don't blame him for doing it is a really good opportunity and will probably double his salary as well.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Sl7vk » January 3rd, 2020, 12:00 pm

Giving people the autonomy and support to do their work, is essential either in football or the commercial sector.
I don't think Sanford lacked autonomy in his role.

The outcome is actually a good one if you look at it objectively. Sanford had to work out of the hole he dug himself into at Western Kentucky, he did that, he gets a better job and his career is back on the rise.
That's a win.

We get to show that coming to USU helps with that upward trajectory, regardless of how you felt Sanford performed last year.

This is very different than the last 11 coordinators in Salt Lake.

Now let's grab someone else, and get a clean start. No problem.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by brownjeans » January 3rd, 2020, 12:08 pm

2004AG wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:51 am
Why is it so hard for you to believe that Sanford and Gary were in the same page and mutually agreed on the offense ?
Let's see... I'm out of a job. I go to an interview and the HC says. I'm a big believer in making things easier for the players. Would you be willing to run the same offense this year? Of course, you could introduce some wrinkles and progress toward your offense as the year progresses.
No coach. I have to do things my way from day 1. It's for the best.

Of course Sanford was on the same page as Gary.
Last edited by brownjeans on January 3rd, 2020, 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by brownjeans » January 3rd, 2020, 12:09 pm

Aggieiester wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:57 am
Again, explain to me why a defensive minded coach (GA) would force an OC to run a no huddle, no time of possession offense? Your hypothesis is wrong.
Except it's the kind of offense Gary said he wants to run because as a DC he found it hard to defend against an offense like that (except in the red zone, Gary said he sees problems with the spread in the red zone).



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by brownjeans » January 3rd, 2020, 12:11 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:57 am
I have no knowledge of Sanford being unhappy at Utah State so I don't think he left because of that but he left because he had a great opportunity at a power 5 program for probably one of the top two or three up and coming coaches. Which I certainly don't blame him for doing it is a really good opportunity and will probably double his salary as well.
Agreed. I'm not saying Sanford left because he didn't have freedom to run his offense (although he wasn't running his offense). He's taking a great job. I'm just concerned about the future.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by brownjeans » January 3rd, 2020, 12:14 pm

Sl7vk wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 12:00 pm
Giving people the autonomy and support to do their work, is essential either in football or the commercial sector.
I don't think Sanford lacked autonomy in his role.

The outcome is actually a good one if you look at it objectively. Sanford had to work out of the hole he dug himself into at Western Kentucky, he did that, he gets a better job and his career is back on the rise.
That's a win.

We get to show that coming to USU helps with that upward trajectory, regardless of how you felt Sanford performed last year.

This is very different than the last 11 coordinators in Salt Lake.

Now let's grab someone else, and get a clean start. No problem.
Yes. I agree and I hope you're right about the future. I tend to get stuck in worse-case-scenario thinking sometimes.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Yossarian » January 3rd, 2020, 12:42 pm

If Sanford intends to bring USU's red zone offense to Minnesota I hope they have a good place kicker.
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Chatman » January 3rd, 2020, 1:22 pm

Roy McAvoy wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 10:16 am
Aggie84025 wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 10:12 am
Roy McAvoy wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 9:29 am
The scary part is who Gary hires to replace Sanford. Gary has only ever proven to hire from the good ol boy network. That leaves some scary names.

Kevin McGiven, Dave Schramm, Aaron Roderick, Fesi Sitake, etc.
I wouldn't be completely opposed to bringing mcgiven. He has done a decent job as the offensive coordinator at San Jose State.
The reason I would be is that Mcgiven was Oregon State's OC when Gary had confessed he hired the wrong guys as assistant coaches and the team was playing horrible.
No chance McGiven would work for Gary again.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by newhouse9 » January 3rd, 2020, 1:36 pm

brownjeans wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 10:01 am
I'm concerned.

Gary interfered with Sanford's ability to do his job by proclaiming that last-year's offense needed to stay in place.

Have we begun the UofU OC cycle? Will Andersen continue to handcuff our OCs and then push them out the door when the offense doesn't perform? Will we end up in a cycle of one OC after another as we either hire unqualified OCs who need someone to give them a shot, or experienced OCs needing a job and then look for a quick exit because they want more freedom?

This is what is going through my worst-case-scenario head.
The UofU was firing OCs...I don't know how many left of their own accord, but Sanford had a great opportunity and took it. Gary didn't fire Sanford.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by ThunderAggie » January 3rd, 2020, 2:03 pm

Does Minnesota want Ena....a two for one package!!!
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by brownjeans » January 3rd, 2020, 2:05 pm

newhouse9 wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 1:36 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 10:01 am
I'm concerned.

Gary interfered with Sanford's ability to do his job by proclaiming that last-year's offense needed to stay in place.

Have we begun the UofU OC cycle? Will Andersen continue to handcuff our OCs and then push them out the door when the offense doesn't perform? Will we end up in a cycle of one OC after another as we either hire unqualified OCs who need someone to give them a shot, or experienced OCs needing a job and then look for a quick exit because they want more freedom?

This is what is going through my worst-case-scenario head.
The UofU was firing OCs...I don't know how many left of their own accord, but Sanford had a great opportunity and took it. Gary didn't fire Sanford.
Understood. Sanford is taking a better job, I'm not saying he's leaving for any other reason. Just saying I'm concerned about the future and would like Andersen to hire well and then let the OC run his scheme his way. I think interfering limits the upside.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Floppy Hat » January 3rd, 2020, 2:09 pm

It will be interesting to see if Sanford takes any other coaches with him to Minnesota. TJ Woods would probably be the most likely candidate, considering that Woods was with Sanford at Western Kentucky. However, Minnesota's current O-line coach doesn't look like he is going anywhere.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by aggies22 » January 3rd, 2020, 2:44 pm

Floppy Hat wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 2:09 pm
It will be interesting to see if Sanford takes any other coaches with him to Minnesota. TJ Woods would probably be the most likely candidate, considering that Woods was with Sanford at Western Kentucky. However, Minnesota's current O-line coach doesn't look like he is going anywhere.
Zero chance anyone follows Sanford to Minnesota.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by aggies22 » January 3rd, 2020, 2:46 pm

Mike Sanford coached with Minnesota Head Coach PJ Fleck at Western Michigan. This is the connection and this whole thing happened in the last 18 hours.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by AGGIEFIGHT » January 3rd, 2020, 3:00 pm

This thread reminds me of what was said when Josh Heupel left. No one thought he could coach and were glad when he left.
It turned out pretty good for Josh. It just shows that a good coach can look bad without the right players on the field and look good when they have the right players
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by aggies22 » January 3rd, 2020, 3:05 pm

AGGIEFIGHT wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 3:00 pm
This thread reminds me of what was said when Josh Heupel left. No one thought he could coach and were glad when he left.
It turned out pretty good for Josh. It just shows that a good coach can look bad without the right players on the field and look good when they have the right players
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Aggie84025 » January 3rd, 2020, 3:26 pm

I actually thought Sanford did decent and got better as the year went on. I was looking forward to see what he could this coming year when he would have fully implemented his own offense. Looking forward to see who we get. I think the position is actually a pretty favorable one within the G5 ranks.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Sl7vk » January 3rd, 2020, 3:38 pm

Isn't Boise looking for a coordinator right now as well?
The nightmare scenario was Sanford going to Boise.
It will be interesting to see who we get versus who Boise lands.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Imakeitrain » January 3rd, 2020, 4:05 pm

Bouknight deserves to be interviewed (he deserves the job)- but if we dont even try to interview him it's a slap in the face.
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Aggie84025 » January 3rd, 2020, 4:12 pm

Imakeitrain wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 4:05 pm
Bouknight deserves to be interviewed (he deserves the job)- but if we dont even try to interview him it's a slap in the face.
Honest question why do you think he deserves the job and do you think he would be a good coordinator? I know he was a good receivers coach and I believe the players really respected him.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Agezzz » January 3rd, 2020, 4:30 pm

I mostly saw complaints on Sanford. I see that a P5 school wanted him. A nice promotion. The question will be who wants to come to USU and work for GA. That's going to tell us a great deal about how assistant coaches view both GA and USU. A solid hire will hopefully diminish some of the negative thinking about GA. Let's hope for good news. Go Aggies!



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Floppy Hat » January 3rd, 2020, 4:59 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 2:46 pm
Mike Sanford coached with Minnesota Head Coach PJ Fleck at Western Michigan.
I don't think so. I'm fairly sure Sanford has never coached at Western Michigan.

Sanford Jobs
- 05-06: UNLV GA
- 07-08: Stanford Analyst
- 09: Yale TEs
- 10: Western Kentucky QBs
- 11-13: Stanford RBs/QBs
- 14: Boise State OC
- 15-16: Notre Dame OC
- 17-18: Western Kentucky Head Coach
- 19: Utah State OC

PJ Fleck Jobs
- 06: Ohio State GA
- 07-09: Northern Illinois WR
- 10-11: Rutgers WR
- 12: Tampa Bay WR
- 13-16: Western Michigan Head Coach
- 17-20: Minnesota Head Coach

I think this will be their first time on the same staff.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Imakeitrain » January 3rd, 2020, 5:09 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 4:12 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 4:05 pm
Bouknight deserves to be interviewed (he deserves the job)- but if we dont even try to interview him it's a slap in the face.
Honest question why do you think he deserves the job and do you think he would be a good coordinator? I know he was a good receivers coach and I believe the players really respected him.
Largely because he is respected and has solid experience- if he wants the job, I think he should be considered. He's been at a P5, he was a beloved coach here, he was a "co-OC" here, he would bring some stability back as a familiar face from the prior staff (spanning staffs)- he has been loyal to USU...

But I dont know the answer to the most important question- can he call plays? My understanding is that he was passed on before due to experience, not because there was any question about his abilities as a strategist. I guess I could amend my statement to say that he has the resume, and deserves it from a loyalty perspective- but can he call plays? IDK. If not, I'll concede he shouldnt get the job.


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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » January 3rd, 2020, 5:25 pm

newhouse9 wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 1:36 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 10:01 am
I'm concerned.

Gary interfered with Sanford's ability to do his job by proclaiming that last-year's offense needed to stay in place.

Have we begun the UofU OC cycle? Will Andersen continue to handcuff our OCs and then push them out the door when the offense doesn't perform? Will we end up in a cycle of one OC after another as we either hire unqualified OCs who need someone to give them a shot, or experienced OCs needing a job and then look for a quick exit because they want more freedom?

This is what is going through my worst-case-scenario head.
The UofU was firing OCs...I don't know how many left of their own accord, but Sanford had a great opportunity and took it. Gary didn't fire Sanford.
Most of the u of u offensive coordinators left on their own accord, ludwig, chow, christianson, taylor all left for other jobs. Erickson was promoted to associate head coach. Bryan johnson was demoted and left. Bottomline this is the business. Coordinators rarely stay at one school for a long time. Even great coaches go through tons of coordinators. Urban meyer had 3 offensive coordinators in 7 seasons at Ohio state. Nick saban has gone through a multitude of coordinators. Bottomline is if you have success they are leaving even quicker than head coaches. If they fail, they'll be replaced even quicker than head coaches. Hire the right guy and nobody will miss sanford.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by aggies22 » January 3rd, 2020, 6:34 pm

Floppy Hat wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 4:59 pm
aggies22 wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 2:46 pm
Mike Sanford coached with Minnesota Head Coach PJ Fleck at Western Michigan.
I don't think so. I'm fairly sure Sanford has never coached at Western Michigan.

Sanford Jobs
- 05-06: UNLV GA
- 07-08: Stanford Analyst
- 09: Yale TEs
- 10: Western Kentucky QBs
- 11-13: Stanford RBs/QBs
- 14: Boise State OC
- 15-16: Notre Dame OC
- 17-18: Western Kentucky Head Coach
- 19: Utah State OC

PJ Fleck Jobs
- 06: Ohio State GA
- 07-09: Northern Illinois WR
- 10-11: Rutgers WR
- 12: Tampa Bay WR
- 13-16: Western Michigan Head Coach
- 17-20: Minnesota Head Coach

I think this will be their first time on the same staff.
Dammit! I stand corrected. That's what I get for just going off what I thought I remembered and not making sure before posting. My bad!



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » January 3rd, 2020, 8:20 pm

Boy that Sanford has gotten around like a BYU coed in Vegas the past 15 years!
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by El Sapo » January 4th, 2020, 12:54 pm

I'm not a Sanford fan by any means. Our coaching staff hurt us this year IMHO and that includes GA. I guess GA couldn't fire himself, so this was the next best option. Sanford probably realized he was screwed when someone decided to leave in Yost's offense instead of allowing him to install his own.


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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by KissMyAg » January 4th, 2020, 1:05 pm

El Sapo wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:54 pm
I'm not a Sanford fan by any means. Our coaching staff hurt us this year IMHO and that includes GA. I guess GA couldn't fire himself, so this was the next best option. Sanford probably realized he was screwed when someone decided to leave in Yost's offense instead of allowing him to install his own.
This post is thoughtless
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by aggies22 » January 4th, 2020, 1:27 pm

El Sapo wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:54 pm
I'm not a Sanford fan by any means. Our coaching staff hurt us this year IMHO and that includes GA. I guess GA couldn't fire himself, so this was the next best option. Sanford probably realized he was screwed when someone decided to leave in Yost's offense instead of allowing him to install his own.
Sanford was humble enough to run an offense that he wasn't familiar with in order to give Jordan Love to do what he does best. Sanford absolutely had the green light to run his brand of offense in 2020.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by TheAKAggie » January 4th, 2020, 1:37 pm

aggies22 wrote:
El Sapo wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:54 pm
I'm not a Sanford fan by any means. Our coaching staff hurt us this year IMHO and that includes GA. I guess GA couldn't fire himself, so this was the next best option. Sanford probably realized he was screwed when someone decided to leave in Yost's offense instead of allowing him to install his own.
Sanford was humble enough to run an offense that he wasn't familiar with in order to give Jordan Love to do what he does best. Sanford absolutely had the green light to run his brand of offense in 2020.
Leaving to a P5 school that was ranked a lot of the year was not a firing...


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Aggie84025
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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by Aggie84025 » January 4th, 2020, 1:50 pm

TheAKAggie wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 1:37 pm
aggies22 wrote:
El Sapo wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:54 pm
I'm not a Sanford fan by any means. Our coaching staff hurt us this year IMHO and that includes GA. I guess GA couldn't fire himself, so this was the next best option. Sanford probably realized he was screwed when someone decided to leave in Yost's offense instead of allowing him to install his own.
Sanford was humble enough to run an offense that he wasn't familiar with in order to give Jordan Love to do what he does best. Sanford absolutely had the green light to run his brand of offense in 2020.
Leaving to a P5 school that was ranked a lot of the year was not a firing...


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Exactly Minnesota was a top 15 team this year and has one of the best young coaches. He probably doubled his salary as well. This is in know way a demotion.



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Re: Sanford headed to Minnesota

Post by YoungBloodAggie » January 4th, 2020, 3:07 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 1:50 pm
TheAKAggie wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 1:37 pm
aggies22 wrote:
El Sapo wrote:
January 4th, 2020, 12:54 pm
I'm not a Sanford fan by any means. Our coaching staff hurt us this year IMHO and that includes GA. I guess GA couldn't fire himself, so this was the next best option. Sanford probably realized he was screwed when someone decided to leave in Yost's offense instead of allowing him to install his own.
Sanford was humble enough to run an offense that he wasn't familiar with in order to give Jordan Love to do what he does best. Sanford absolutely had the green light to run his brand of offense in 2020.
Leaving to a P5 school that was ranked a lot of the year was not a firing...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly Minnesota was a top 15 team this year and has one of the best young coaches. He probably doubled his salary as well. This is in know way a demotion.
Oh look, El Sapo talking out of the other end of his digestive tract again.


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