Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

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Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by Roy McAvoy » January 16th, 2020, 2:31 pm

For fun I mocked up what the depth chart might look like back in a 3-4. It's a bit hard because I'm sure we'll also be in a 3-3-5 plenty (The Nickle spot would then replace the 4th LB.) I also think that last guy could be a hybrid/safety mix like Rocquemore was used so successfully in 2018. I could see a guy like Cash Gilliam filling that role.

I'm torn on Nick Heninger and if he'll play LB or DE. He was a LB in HS and at 245 lbs that's a pretty small DE in a 3-4 base, but he was pretty solid on the D-line so I don't know.

This also paints the picture to me that it seems to make so much sense to move Mo Uasike and Logan Lee back to the D-line, unless we have a couple grad transfers coming in that spot.

I think there's pretty obvious and glaring needs for help at D-Line, RB, WR, & TE/H-Back (Given we've heard chatter of double tight formations).
It wouldn't surprise me to see a grad transfer brought in in all 4 positions and maybe more than 1 at the position.

Green = Returning Starter
Red= New to the program in 2020

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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by brownjeans » January 16th, 2020, 3:05 pm

Our old D system always had one player that was a hybrid between an OLB and a DE (Bojay, Kyler) and one player that was a hybrid between a LB and a SS (Mo Alexander).

Maybe Nick will be our new Bojay.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by AGGIEinIOWA » January 16th, 2020, 3:43 pm

Fun to look at.

I feel good about the OL for 2020. Our good young guys will be another year bigger, stronger, and more experienced. I worry about receiver and hope we get another Mariner/Greene to transfer in. I do think Derek Wright can play a bigger role in 2020 and Ajani will take a step forward in year 2. Wright made some great plays but just didn't get thrown to much. Reeder will do more with Thompkins after hearing how he likes misdirection and likes to mix things up on offense. which is good. If Nawahine goes on a mission, I think we need a grad transfer RB to insert behind Warren. Noa will be great eventually and get some touches this year but I don't expect him to carry the load of a #2 back as a freshman. I hope to see Mortenson utilized in the passing game.

I feel pretty good about our secondary. I'm not sure how Hale would transition to DE, but could work. Seems like in 2018 that one of our two DE's were more like a DT and then we'd move Tipa around to be the second rusher. Maybe we do that again but with someone other than Tipa. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Te'i. Will they continue to build him up to a DE or will they trim him back down to an OLB. I hope the latter. A healthy Magalei will help as well and I could see him being an impact player. He's very versatile and quick and could be used to rush the qb some like Tipa did in 2018. Shelton may play faster this year as well as he can just fly to the I'm hoping a couple of the young LB's step up similar to Woodward in his sophomore season. I think Duncan will surprise some people once he gets acclimated to defense. I expect a lot out of the trio of Bond, Gilliam, and Lefeged. One of them can be used as a Rocquemore. He's not on our depth chart but I think Hussey has a chance to get on the depth chart at safety.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by tipitup » January 16th, 2020, 4:20 pm

didn't someone say chase nelson went back to safety? is he so far down either at RB or Safety he doesn't merit the depth chart? just curious



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by oleblu111 » January 16th, 2020, 4:24 pm

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 3:43 pm
Fun to look at.

I feel good about the OL for 2020. Our good young guys will be another year bigger, stronger, and more experienced. I worry about receiver and hope we get another Mariner/Greene to transfer in. I do think Derek Wright can play a bigger role in 2020 and Ajani will take a step forward in year 2. Wright made some great plays but just didn't get thrown to much. Reeder will do more with Thompkins after hearing how he likes misdirection and likes to mix things up on offense. which is good. If Nawahine goes on a mission, I think we need a grad transfer RB to insert behind Warren. Noa will be great eventually and get some touches this year but I don't expect him to carry the load of a #2 back as a freshman. I hope to see Mortenson utilized in the passing game.

I feel pretty good about our secondary. I'm not sure how Hale would transition to DE, but could work. Seems like in 2018 that one of our two DE's were more like a DT and then we'd move Tipa around to be the second rusher. Maybe we do that again but with someone other than Tipa. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Te'i. Will they continue to build him up to a DE or will they trim him back down to an OLB. I hope the latter. A healthy Magalei will help as well and I could see him being an impact player. He's very versatile and quick and could be used to rush the qb some like Tipa did in 2018. Shelton may play faster this year as well as he can just fly to the I'm hoping a couple of the young LB's step up similar to Woodward in his sophomore season. I think Duncan will surprise some people once he gets acclimated to defense. I expect a lot out of the trio of Bond, Gilliam, and Lefeged. One of them can be used as a Rocquemore. He's not on our depth chart but I think Hussey has a chance to get on the depth chart at safety.
It is interesting for sure.

The O line will be experienced and if Koch is sound that gives us two decent tackles. We do not have a possession receiver on that roster plus T.E. is a good blocker, but not fast enough to be a quality receiver. hope a new one can step up. R.B. is a concern given the production last season of those on the list, hope a new one can step up. I do not know about Q.B.

The D.line that return were pushed around a lot last season, in the beloved 3 man front you need tough people that can hold gaps those returning will need to improve a lot, With that front you need real good linebackers, on that list I do not see that, maybe they can get faster, stronger and tackle much better than they have. D.B. are the best part of the defense IMHO.

Let me say that despite my concerns with the quality of players on the team if they get tougher, stronger, and faster thru hard work they could be a pleasant surprise



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by FloridaAggie13 » January 16th, 2020, 4:50 pm

Shame we just lost the highly rated LB who Ena forced onto the Dline. Shame Ena wasted Tipa's final season.

Glad Ena was demoted.
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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by ThunderAggie » January 16th, 2020, 5:16 pm

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 3:43 pm
I do think Derek Wright can play a bigger role in 2020 and Ajani will take a step forward in year 2.
I remember someone saying that AJ Carter is switching to play corner next year, so I think that takes out another possible WR contributor. Or was that speculation and he will be playing WR?



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by AGGIEinIOWA » January 16th, 2020, 5:49 pm

ThunderAggie wrote:
AGGIEinIOWA wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 3:43 pm
I do think Derek Wright can play a bigger role in 2020 and Ajani will take a step forward in year 2.
I remember someone saying that AJ Carter is switching to play corner next year, so I think that takes out another possible WR contributor. Or was that speculation and he will be playing WR?
I think that was a temporary move to safety just to fill in a gap when we had some injuries but I could be wrong. He probably would make a good safety or DB but I hope they leave him at receiver. We have a glaring need there and he was a 2 year letter winner at that position for the #2 ranked HS team in the country.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by aggies22 » January 16th, 2020, 6:15 pm

ThunderAggie wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 5:16 pm
AGGIEinIOWA wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 3:43 pm
I do think Derek Wright can play a bigger role in 2020 and Ajani will take a step forward in year 2.
I remember someone saying that AJ Carter is switching to play corner next year, so I think that takes out another possible WR contributor. Or was that speculation and he will be playing WR?
I haven't been able to confirm that.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by Elkaggie » January 16th, 2020, 8:10 pm

I think you will see a big step forward from AJ V(can’t spell his last name) this year!
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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by brownjeans » January 17th, 2020, 10:01 am

oleblu111 wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 4:24 pm
The D.line that return were pushed around a lot last season, in the beloved 3 man front you need tough people that can hold gaps those returning will need to improve a lot, With that front you need real good linebackers, on that list I do not see that, maybe they can get faster, stronger and tackle much better than they have. D.B. are the best part of the defense IMHO.
How many DEs were moved up to DT? How many LBs were moved to DE and so on? If we were playing a bunch of guys who were converted UP to a position that required them to be bigger and stronger, it's no wonder we were getting pushed around. If we get guys playing their natural positions, we should see improvement right away.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by BRuss804 » January 17th, 2020, 10:34 am

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 5:49 pm
ThunderAggie wrote:
AGGIEinIOWA wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 3:43 pm
I do think Derek Wright can play a bigger role in 2020 and Ajani will take a step forward in year 2.
I remember someone saying that AJ Carter is switching to play corner next year, so I think that takes out another possible WR contributor. Or was that speculation and he will be playing WR?
I think that was a temporary move to safety just to fill in a gap when we had some injuries but I could be wrong. He probably would make a good safety or DB but I hope they leave him at receiver. We have a glaring need there and he was a 2 year letter winner at that position for the #2 ranked HS team in the country.
GA addressed Carter's position change in one of his coaches shows. IIRC, he said a decision on whether the switch to safety would be made permanent would happen during the offseason. It sounded like GA wanted him to stay at safety but that Carter might prefer to switch back to WR.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by oleblu111 » January 17th, 2020, 10:59 am

brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 10:01 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 4:24 pm
The D.line that return were pushed around a lot last season, in the beloved 3 man front you need tough people that can hold gaps those returning will need to improve a lot, With that front you need real good linebackers, on that list I do not see that, maybe they can get faster, stronger and tackle much better than they have. D.B. are the best part of the defense IMHO.
How many DEs were moved up to DT? How many LBs were moved to DE and so on? If we were playing a bunch of guys who were converted UP to a position that required them to be bigger and stronger, it's no wonder we were getting pushed around. If we get guys playing their natural positions, we should see improvement right away.
I do not believe any Linebackers were converted to starting D tackles in fact when we ran the 4 man front only one line backer was a converted D.E. of course we did run a lot of 3 man front also.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by GUS » January 17th, 2020, 11:27 am

If Metzinheimer and Munos are the starting middle linebackers, we are in trouble. They struggle with lateral movement and just a step slow.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by taniataylor » January 17th, 2020, 11:32 am

GUS wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:27 am
If Metzinheimer and Munos are the starting middle linebackers, we are in trouble. They struggle with lateral movement and just a step slow.
Those 2 saved us from a lot of smackings last year..... :nono:


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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by oleblu111 » January 17th, 2020, 11:33 am

GUS wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:27 am
If Metzinheimer and Munos are the starting middle linebackers, we are in trouble. They struggle with lateral movement and just a step slow.
That is a worry if we run a 3 man front you must have good linebackers, unless some kids really step up that could be a problem, but kids can change with off season work in the weight room if we have a good staff working with them.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by brownjeans » January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am

oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 10:59 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 10:01 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 4:24 pm
The D.line that return were pushed around a lot last season, in the beloved 3 man front you need tough people that can hold gaps those returning will need to improve a lot, With that front you need real good linebackers, on that list I do not see that, maybe they can get faster, stronger and tackle much better than they have. D.B. are the best part of the defense IMHO.
How many DEs were moved up to DT? How many LBs were moved to DE and so on? If we were playing a bunch of guys who were converted UP to a position that required them to be bigger and stronger, it's no wonder we were getting pushed around. If we get guys playing their natural positions, we should see improvement right away.
I do not believe any Linebackers were converted to starting D tackles in fact when we ran the 4 man front only one line backer was a converted D.E. of course we did run a lot of 3 man front also.
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by oleblu111 » January 17th, 2020, 11:45 am

brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 10:59 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 10:01 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 4:24 pm
The D.line that return were pushed around a lot last season, in the beloved 3 man front you need tough people that can hold gaps those returning will need to improve a lot, With that front you need real good linebackers, on that list I do not see that, maybe they can get faster, stronger and tackle much better than they have. D.B. are the best part of the defense IMHO.
How many DEs were moved up to DT? How many LBs were moved to DE and so on? If we were playing a bunch of guys who were converted UP to a position that required them to be bigger and stronger, it's no wonder we were getting pushed around. If we get guys playing their natural positions, we should see improvement right away.
I do not believe any Linebackers were converted to starting D tackles in fact when we ran the 4 man front only one line backer was a converted D.E. of course we did run a lot of 3 man front also.
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen
[/quote

Lets see Devon was around 290 lbs, Motu"apuka was around 20 lbs, Caden is around 285 lbs plenty big to play D.T. who outside of those kids would you have started at D.T. or at D.E ?



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by brownjeans » January 17th, 2020, 11:57 am

oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:45 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen
Lets see Devon was around 290 lbs, Motu"apuka was around 300 lbs, Caden is around 290 lbs plenty big to play D.T. who outside of those kids would you have started at D.T. or at D.E ?
Come on man, you know all weight isn't equal. You gotta be built for that weight and strong to go with it. Putting on 20 lbs in a few months is one thing but doing it with strength is another thing altogether.
You seem to be pretty dismissive of the challenge to move up like that. It's not a small thing. I honestly can't believe we attempted it with half of our front 7 position players. I mean really? That's pretty major.

You're complaining about us not being strong enough, well, this is one reason why.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by oleblu111 » January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm

brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:57 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:45 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen
Lets see Devon was around 290 lbs, Motu"apuka was around 300 lbs, Caden is around 290 lbs plenty big to play D.T. who outside of those kids would you have started at D.T. or at D.E ?
Come on man, you know all weight isn't equal. You gotta be built for that weight and strong to go with it. Putting on 20 lbs in a few months is one thing but doing it with strength is another thing altogether.
You seem to be pretty dismissive of the challenge to move up like that. It's not a small thing. I honestly can't believe we attempted it with half of our front 7 position players. I mean really? That's pretty major.

You're complaining about us not being strong enough, well, this is one reason why.
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by Aglicious » January 17th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Looking over this it doesn't leave me with much reassurance on the defensive side. I agree with Roy about the immediate needs left to fill too.

LB's
The worst is not feeling great about the LB position but then sitting there looking at all the LB's we have on the roster. There are a ton of guys that we were super excited to sign and may pan out over time but they are all young with little experience right now. I see Heninger as the LB/DE type of guy that can be used all over the place. I thought he was great at getting pressure and showed he was both strong and fast. I would feel a lot better if he were the OLB and Hale slid over with Mo Uasike moved back to NT. Also agree that we are not as strong as we need to be at ILB but the good news is that there are a lot of guys on the roster that could step up. I really hope Duncan will be one of those that steps up and the coaches can't keep him off the field. I'm also rooting for Magalei to fully recover and find his way into the staring lineup.

RB's & WR's
This is obviously the glaring weakness on the opposite side of the ball. We've got talent with the slot-type WR's (with Thompkins & Nathan, and even Compton) but not much proven talent on the outside. We really need some 6'-2" to 6'-6" dudes on the outside that have great hands. I don't know if Scarver was injured or what toward the end of last year but he seemed to be jogging through everything, even KR's. I don't think the staff showed much trust in him being a regular starter on the outside last season so I can't imagine they will this season either. He's one of the guys I hope the new OC uses in various ways or even as a decoy. He has a very specific skill set and we really haven't found a way to utilize it other than on kick returns.

As for RB's, I really liked what Warren brought to the table but his health declined as the season went on and he seemed to play injured for a good portion of it. Unfortunately for his health his running style is one that is rather violent so we have to have 1 or 2 other guys that can carry the load when he goes down. I'm holding out hope that we bring in a somewhat proven grad transfer that can provide that. Another intriguing option for some situational or spot play at this position may be Duncan. I'd love to see him involved in some trick plays somehow.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by hickaggie » January 17th, 2020, 1:34 pm

oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:57 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:45 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen
Lets see Devon was around 290 lbs, Motu"apuka was around 300 lbs, Caden is around 290 lbs plenty big to play D.T. who outside of those kids would you have started at D.T. or at D.E ?
Come on man, you know all weight isn't equal. You gotta be built for that weight and strong to go with it. Putting on 20 lbs in a few months is one thing but doing it with strength is another thing altogether.
You seem to be pretty dismissive of the challenge to move up like that. It's not a small thing. I honestly can't believe we attempted it with half of our front 7 position players. I mean really? That's pretty major.

You're complaining about us not being strong enough, well, this is one reason why.
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me
I've just got to respectfully disagree with the interior strength issues. I didn't see our tackles getting blown off the ball. I saw that after losing their top player that Unga was slow. I saw bad pass rush technique. I saw bad lane discipline. I saw bad gap control between the line, LBs, and safeties which is essential to a 4-2-5. On the outside yes, but that's because our ILB and finesse edge rusher were trying to take on offensive tackles and TE double teams with the obvious results.

Show me some film and I will change my mind. The inside kids didn't suddenly lose a ton of strength but were changing positions and not coached well for it. I've run a similar 4 2 5 gap scheme and could see the problems with how the ends were attacking it and the lack of gap control. First and foremost it requires ends who can squeeze the tackles while still being able to fight their way and maintain outside contain. It was doomed because it put poor Tipa all out of sorts in no mans land and the LBs and D-line never seemed to be on the same page as far as gaps. Even with Woody I felt like he had so much pressure to make every tackle that he almost abandoned his gaps at times and just sat back to see where the runner would emerge because he felt like he had to cover the whole field.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by oleblu111 » January 17th, 2020, 1:52 pm

hickaggie wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 1:34 pm
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:57 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:45 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen
Lets see Devon was around 290 lbs, Motu"apuka was around 300 lbs, Caden is around 290 lbs plenty big to play D.T. who outside of those kids would you have started at D.T. or at D.E ?
Come on man, you know all weight isn't equal. You gotta be built for that weight and strong to go with it. Putting on 20 lbs in a few months is one thing but doing it with strength is another thing altogether.
You seem to be pretty dismissive of the challenge to move up like that. It's not a small thing. I honestly can't believe we attempted it with half of our front 7 position players. I mean really? That's pretty major.

You're complaining about us not being strong enough, well, this is one reason why.
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me
I've just got to respectfully disagree with the interior strength issues. I didn't see our tackles getting blown off the ball. I saw that after losing their top player that Unga was slow. I saw bad pass rush technique. I saw bad lane discipline. I saw bad gap control between the line, LBs, and safeties which is essential to a 4-2-5. On the outside yes, but that's because our ILB and finesse edge rusher were trying to take on offensive tackles and TE double teams with the obvious results.

Show me some film and I will change my mind. The inside kids didn't suddenly lose a ton of strength but were changing positions and not coached well for it. I've run a similar 4 2 5 gap scheme and could see the problems with how the ends were attacking it and the lack of gap control. First and foremost it requires ends who can squeeze the tackles while still being able to fight their way and maintain outside contain. It was doomed because it put poor Tipa all out of sorts in no mans land and the LBs and D-line never seemed to be on the same page as far as gaps. Even with Woody I felt like he had so much pressure to make every tackle that he almost abandoned his gaps at times and just sat back to see where the runner would emerge because he felt like he had to cover the whole field.
We would need to sit down and go over film of games. If you bring me a six pack of Rainier Beer I will supply the film and snacks Let me just say that this team did not meet weight room goals that are needed to be successful..



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by hickaggie » January 17th, 2020, 2:00 pm

oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 1:52 pm
hickaggie wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 1:34 pm
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:57 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:45 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen
Lets see Devon was around 290 lbs, Motu"apuka was around 300 lbs, Caden is around 290 lbs plenty big to play D.T. who outside of those kids would you have started at D.T. or at D.E ?
Come on man, you know all weight isn't equal. You gotta be built for that weight and strong to go with it. Putting on 20 lbs in a few months is one thing but doing it with strength is another thing altogether.
You seem to be pretty dismissive of the challenge to move up like that. It's not a small thing. I honestly can't believe we attempted it with half of our front 7 position players. I mean really? That's pretty major.

You're complaining about us not being strong enough, well, this is one reason why.
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me
I've just got to respectfully disagree with the interior strength issues. I didn't see our tackles getting blown off the ball. I saw that after losing their top player that Unga was slow. I saw bad pass rush technique. I saw bad lane discipline. I saw bad gap control between the line, LBs, and safeties which is essential to a 4-2-5. On the outside yes, but that's because our ILB and finesse edge rusher were trying to take on offensive tackles and TE double teams with the obvious results.

Show me some film and I will change my mind. The inside kids didn't suddenly lose a ton of strength but were changing positions and not coached well for it. I've run a similar 4 2 5 gap scheme and could see the problems with how the ends were attacking it and the lack of gap control. First and foremost it requires ends who can squeeze the tackles while still being able to fight their way and maintain outside contain. It was doomed because it put poor Tipa all out of sorts in no mans land and the LBs and D-line never seemed to be on the same page as far as gaps. Even with Woody I felt like he had so much pressure to make every tackle that he almost abandoned his gaps at times and just sat back to see where the runner would emerge because he felt like he had to cover the whole field.
We would need to sit down and go over film of games. If you bring me a six pack of Rainier Beer I will supply the film and snacks Let me just say that this team did not meet weight room goals that are needed to be successful..
That may very well be. Did you expect Tipa to add 40 lbs? Weight room and conditioning is a lot more than strength too and I felt like that our interior lineman were out of shape and lazy at times. As far as the LBs weight room work is for speed as much as anything and they certainly lacked that in spades. I just don't have any reason to believe that our veteran interior lineman lost strength from last year. Their issues were different as I explained in my other post.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by brownjeans » January 17th, 2020, 2:06 pm

oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me
Did you ask Gary if they were not strong enough for their 2018 position, or not strong enough for their 2019 position?
If the answer is BOTH, then why did it seem that the players who returned to the SAME position (didn't change between 2018/2019) were strong enough in 2018 to play well in 2018?
The blanket statement that ALL players weren't strong enough doesn't hold up against examination with how well the team played in 2018. Gary may want them stronger, but those that returned to the same position were strong enough to get it done in 2018.
To me, saying they weren't strong enough is a deflection away from the coaches taking responsibility and blaming the players; half of whom were playing a position that required them to suddenly be bigger and stronger (not to mention learn a new job and technique). That's not fair.
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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2020, 2:22 pm

oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:57 am
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:45 am
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:36 am
I did a quick compare of the 2018 roster to the 2019 roster. Here's what I found:
We had 10 LBs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DE in 2019
We had 8 DEs in 2018 who returned in 2019 - HALF of them moved to DT, one to TE

So we had half of our returning LBs and DEs moved UP to a position requiring them to be larger and stronger than they were just a few months before.

LBs who moved to DE:
Tipa Galeai
Daniel Langi
Elijah Shelton
Justus Te'i
Braden Harris

DEs who moved to DT:
Fua Leilua
Devon Anderson
Hale Motu'apuaka
Caden Adnersen
Lets see Devon was around 290 lbs, Motu"apuka was around 300 lbs, Caden is around 290 lbs plenty big to play D.T. who outside of those kids would you have started at D.T. or at D.E ?
Come on man, you know all weight isn't equal. You gotta be built for that weight and strong to go with it. Putting on 20 lbs in a few months is one thing but doing it with strength is another thing altogether.
You seem to be pretty dismissive of the challenge to move up like that. It's not a small thing. I honestly can't believe we attempted it with half of our front 7 position players. I mean really? That's pretty major.

You're complaining about us not being strong enough, well, this is one reason why.
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me
Perhaps the offensive linemen weren't strong enough and I might buy that because most of them were young and had only been in the program for a year.

In regards to the defensive ends, it's not that they weren't strong enough it's that they didn't belong there in the first place. The coaching staff moved 240/250 pound linebackers to defensive end and made them line up against 300+ pound offensive tackles. Now you know why our ends couldn't set the edge against the run. They gave up 50 or 60 pounds and were getting pancaked. Being forced to play a position extremely undersized isn't a player effort thing, it's a scheme/coaching issue.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2020, 2:31 pm

GUS wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 11:27 am
If Metzinheimer and Munos are the starting middle linebackers, we are in trouble. They struggle with lateral movement and just a step slow.
Meitzenheimer tried his best but once he was asked to fill in for Woodward his lack of speed was exposed. Meitzenheimer is a good boundary player but when he is asked to play in space out on the wide side of the field he is just not fast enough laterally. I'm fine with Meitzenheimer returning to a starting role at INSIDE linebacker in 2020.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by aggies22 » January 17th, 2020, 2:36 pm

brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 2:06 pm
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me
Did you ask Gary if they were not strong enough for their 2018 position, or not strong enough for their 2019 position?
If the answer is BOTH, then why did it seem that the players who returned to the SAME position (didn't change between 2018/2019) were strong enough in 2018 to play well in 2018?
The blanket statement that ALL players weren't strong enough doesn't hold up against examination with how well the team played in 2018. Gary may want them stronger, but those that returned to the same position were strong enough to get it done in 2018.
To me, saying they weren't strong enough is a deflection away from the coaches taking responsibility and blaming the players; half of whom were playing a position that required them to suddenly be bigger and stronger (not to mention learn a new job and technique). That's not fair.
Well said my Aggie brother! I don't buy the lack of strength story at all.



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Re: Depth Chart conjecture with shifting back to 3-4 base defense

Post by oleblu111 » January 17th, 2020, 3:23 pm

aggies22 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 2:36 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 2:06 pm
oleblu111 wrote:
January 17th, 2020, 12:58 pm
That all ok but who would you have started at D.T. ? The truth is all of kids would not have been effective at D.E. Gary has stated time and time again that this team was not strong enough. How much weight did Caden, Hale, or Devon put on ? If you do not buy into what I have said that's ok, but listen to what G.A. has said many times about the lack of strength on this team. I do not need to continue this debate you have your opinion, and I have mine which is fine with me
Did you ask Gary if they were not strong enough for their 2018 position, or not strong enough for their 2019 position?
If the answer is BOTH, then why did it seem that the players who returned to the SAME position (didn't change between 2018/2019) were strong enough in 2018 to play well in 2018?
The blanket statement that ALL players weren't strong enough doesn't hold up against examination with how well the team played in 2018. Gary may want them stronger, but those that returned to the same position were strong enough to get it done in 2018.
To me, saying they weren't strong enough is a deflection away from the coaches taking responsibility and blaming the players; half of whom were playing a position that required them to suddenly be bigger and stronger (not to mention learn a new job and technique). That's not fair.
Well said my Aggie brother! I don't buy the lack of strength story at all.
That's fine, however the statement that we need to get stronger at the point of attack on both sides of the ball is a statement from G.A.,s mouth to my ear, but to have a different opinion is fine with me. That we did not meet strength goals needed is again a statement he made. To say that we need to get stronger is a statement of fact it does not have coach's not taking responsibility, in fact it is just the opposite.



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