A philosophical question:

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A philosophical question:

Post by YoungBloodAggie » June 23rd, 2020, 8:47 pm

Given that:

1) It is June, and
2) I am a degenerate

I am already knee deep in college football preview magazines. One thing that has caught my eye as I survey G5 teams that I would consider perennial contenders is that many of them have been able to hold on to coordinators for more than a few years. I haven't yet done enough research to determine if there are also BAD programs that will hold onto coordinators out of loyalty until the coach is forced to dump them or he is fired and they go packing too.

Here at our beloved Utah State, we've seen that coordinators have a very short shelf life. Here is a short summary going back to the first Andersen hire:

In 2009, Gary brought two new coordinators with him, Dave Baldwin (OC) and Bill Busch (DC). Baldwin lasted until the 2012 season, when he was replaced by Matt Wells. Baldwin was not fired, but instead lured away by CSU. Busch lasted as DC until 2012, when Dave Aranda took over. Both Wells and Aranda had new positions in 2013.

Wells was the new HC (duh), and hired Kevin McGiven (OC) and Todd Orlando (DC). McGiven kinda sucked and was gone after two years. Orlando didn't suck at all, and was also gone after two years when he was hired by Houston.

Josh Heupel (OC) and Kevin Clune (DC) each lasted one year. They both kinda sucked.

Jovon Bouknight and Luke Wells were co-OC in 2016, and Frank Maile was hired as DC in that same year. The co-OC project was an abject failure, but Maile was a great DC.

Yost was hired in 2017 and was here two years, Maile shared DC duties for each of those years.

In 2019, Anderson hired Mike Sanford Jr. (OC) and Justin Ena (DC). Both underperformed, and we've got Maile back as the DC (again, as a co-DC with Stacy Collins), and Bodie Reeder as OC.

The longest we've had a coordinator is 3 years (you can sort of count Maile as a 4th year guy, but it's been nonconsecutive). That's not a ton of time. We have seen great teams most of the years that we've had coordinators come back for a second year. I was optimistic that Sanford would improve in Year 2. I wasn't optimistic that Ena could improve.

I've heard Frank is the coach-in-waiting behind Gary. I love that idea, and I hope it means we have defensive consistency for years to come. I am HOPEFUL Reeder will pick up where Sanford left off, but I expect we won't get rolling again until 2021 (a lighter schedule will help too). It would be amazing if we could retain Bodie after the 2021 season. I think that consistency is what we need to take the next step to compete with Boise State.

Thoughts?
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by USU78 » June 23rd, 2020, 9:40 pm

I liked the recap. $$ is always a problem here, and it both sucks and doesn't suck that people tend to get called away at the coordinator positions.

I've got a question: why is Serena Williams still on the Wheaties box?


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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by AZ4AggieNation » June 23rd, 2020, 10:19 pm

I’m super hopeful both Coach Frank and Coach Reeder stay for years in tow with what Coach A is building/re-building at USU. Both coaches/coordinators have been incredibly supportive and visually pumped to get rollin’ this year plus have been highly encouraging/motivating towards my son and his blessed choice to attend USU and join the Aggie fam!

Here’s an awesome short video Broc had posted on his Twitter, @BrocLane about merits of football and this “brotherhood!” Something positive during all this social madness!

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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Intermeddler » June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm

You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by YoungBloodAggie » June 23rd, 2020, 10:40 pm

Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Maile has been the co-DC or DC for some of our best defenses in that span. He's also been a team player and moved around where he's needed to give other guys a chance. Beyond all that, I think he's a great CEO-type that can run a program, and his guys love him.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Intermeddler » June 23rd, 2020, 11:10 pm

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Maile has been the co-DC or DC for some of our best defenses in that span. He's also been a team player and moved around where he's needed to give other guys a chance. Beyond all that, I think he's a great CEO-type that can run a program, and his guys love him.
He has been a valuable member of the staff and I think he’d make a better HC than anyone else on our current staff but our advanced defensive rankings dropped big time from 15 to 16 then Shaver gets added then we hire Patterson then GA had the chance to make him DC and didn’t. So I guess I’m unimpressed by his track record as DC.

Good coach and glad he’s on staff though.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by YoungBloodAggie » June 24th, 2020, 7:24 am

Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 11:10 pm
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Maile has been the co-DC or DC for some of our best defenses in that span. He's also been a team player and moved around where he's needed to give other guys a chance. Beyond all that, I think he's a great CEO-type that can run a program, and his guys love him.
He has been a valuable member of the staff and I think he’d make a better HC than anyone else on our current staff but our advanced defensive rankings dropped big time from 15 to 16 then Shaver gets added then we hire Patterson then GA had the chance to make him DC and didn’t. So I guess I’m unimpressed by his track record as DC.

Good coach and glad he’s on staff though.
From '15 to '16 we lost Nick Vigil, Kyler Fackrell, Marwin Evans, LT Filiaga, Jordan Nielsen, and Torrey Green. That '16 team was one of the youngest, least experienced defenses we have had at Utah State in the last twenty years. To complicate matters, it was also probably the worst offense we've had since the beginning of the Andersen era (Myers regressed further, Tonny Lindsey was the leading rusher, the only real receiving threat was first-year Tarver).

As for Andersen not picking him to be DC, that's because he wanted Ena here and he also saw Frank's need for experience on the offensive side of the ball. Right, wrong, or indifferent; that is the reason for Maile not being DC last year. When GA needed to right the ship in his second year, did he go externally to a number of contacts he had? No, he went with Frank.


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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by NavyBlueAggie » June 24th, 2020, 7:57 am

Coach Andersen made a poor choice with Coach Ena, and the off season adjustment confirms just that. Coach Maile is now our co D C, and for a reason known to G A and to the staff. That I like Frank has little to do with my expectation he is the H C in waiting at USU. Gary must have liked Coach Ena to import him from Utah, but like didn't get the job done. One and done, and he can't risk the same result with having Coach Maile sleep walk through the coming season like his predecessor.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by LarryTheAggie » June 24th, 2020, 8:56 am

Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Yeah, because Minnesota is not a step up from Utah State at all.

In fact most of the coordinators that we have had that "Kinda Sucked" ended up moving on to bigger programs.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Intermeddler » June 24th, 2020, 10:13 am

LarryTheAggie wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 8:56 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Yeah, because Minnesota is not a step up from Utah State at all.

In fact most of the coordinators that we have had that "Kinda Sucked" ended up moving on to bigger programs.
LarryTheAggie wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 8:56 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Yeah, because Minnesota is not a step up from Utah State at all.

In fact most of the coordinators that we have had that "Kinda Sucked" ended up moving on to bigger programs.
I mean it didn’t work for us because he wasn’t good. Worked for him sure but that’s not what this thread is about.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Intermeddler » June 24th, 2020, 10:15 am

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 7:24 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 11:10 pm
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Maile has been the co-DC or DC for some of our best defenses in that span. He's also been a team player and moved around where he's needed to give other guys a chance. Beyond all that, I think he's a great CEO-type that can run a program, and his guys love him.
He has been a valuable member of the staff and I think he’d make a better HC than anyone else on our current staff but our advanced defensive rankings dropped big time from 15 to 16 then Shaver gets added then we hire Patterson then GA had the chance to make him DC and didn’t. So I guess I’m unimpressed by his track record as DC.

Good coach and glad he’s on staff though.
From '15 to '16 we lost Nick Vigil, Kyler Fackrell, Marwin Evans, LT Filiaga, Jordan Nielsen, and Torrey Green. That '16 team was one of the youngest, least experienced defenses we have had at Utah State in the last twenty years. To complicate matters, it was also probably the worst offense we've had since the beginning of the Andersen era (Myers regressed further, Tonny Lindsey was the leading rusher, the only real receiving threat was first-year Tarver).

As for Andersen not picking him to be DC, that's because he wanted Ena here and he also saw Frank's need for experience on the offensive side of the ball. Right, wrong, or indifferent; that is the reason for Maile not being DC last year. When GA needed to right the ship in his second year, did he go externally to a number of contacts he had? No, he went with Frank.
All fair points but that’s a lot excuses to make for someone who is a “great DC”. Orlando and Aranda were great here. Maile is a great guy and everyone likes him but there’s just nothing to support the statement he’s been a great DC here. And GA turned to him and Collins not just Frank.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by aggies22 » June 24th, 2020, 10:20 am

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 8:47 pm
Given that:

1) It is June, and
2) I am a degenerate

I am already knee deep in college football preview magazines. One thing that has caught my eye as I survey G5 teams that I would consider perennial contenders is that many of them have been able to hold on to coordinators for more than a few years. I haven't yet done enough research to determine if there are also BAD programs that will hold onto coordinators out of loyalty until the coach is forced to dump them or he is fired and they go packing too.

Here at our beloved Utah State, we've seen that coordinators have a very short shelf life. Here is a short summary going back to the first Andersen hire:

In 2009, Gary brought two new coordinators with him, Dave Baldwin (OC) and Bill Busch (DC). Baldwin lasted until the 2012 season, when he was replaced by Matt Wells. Baldwin was not fired, but instead lured away by CSU. Busch lasted as DC until 2012, when Dave Aranda took over. Both Wells and Aranda had new positions in 2013.

Wells was the new HC (duh), and hired Kevin McGiven (OC) and Todd Orlando (DC). McGiven kinda sucked and was gone after two years. Orlando didn't suck at all, and was also gone after two years when he was hired by Houston.

Josh Heupel (OC) and Kevin Clune (DC) each lasted one year. They both kinda sucked.

Jovon Bouknight and Luke Wells were co-OC in 2016, and Frank Maile was hired as DC in that same year. The co-OC project was an abject failure, but Maile was a great DC.

Yost was hired in 2017 and was here two years, Maile shared DC duties for each of those years.

In 2019, Anderson hired Mike Sanford Jr. (OC) and Justin Ena (DC). Both underperformed, and we've got Maile back as the DC (again, as a co-DC with Stacy Collins), and Bodie Reeder as OC.

The longest we've had a coordinator is 3 years (you can sort of count Maile as a 4th year guy, but it's been nonconsecutive). That's not a ton of time. We have seen great teams most of the years that we've had coordinators come back for a second year. I was optimistic that Sanford would improve in Year 2. I wasn't optimistic that Ena could improve.

I've heard Frank is the coach-in-waiting behind Gary. I love that idea, and I hope it means we have defensive consistency for years to come. I am HOPEFUL Reeder will pick up where Sanford left off, but I expect we won't get rolling again until 2021 (a lighter schedule will help too). It would be amazing if we could retain Bodie after the 2021 season. I think that consistency is what we need to take the next step to compete with Boise State.

Thoughts?
Dave Baldwin wasn't lured away by Colorado State, he "mutually" parted ways with the program. He just happened to land at Colorado State. Bill Busch was reassigned within the staff and moved on to Wisconsin with most of the other coaches. Dave Baldwin is currently at Northern Colorado. Bill Busch is now the safeties coach at LSU.

Dave Aranda was very much on the rebound when he was hired here. He had just lost his gig at Hawaii and was in search of a new start. Not exactly up-and-comer status. After VERY successful stints at Wisconsin and LSU, he is now the head coach at Baylor. We all know where Matt Wells ended up.

In one of his two seasons here, Kevin McGiven was named the National QB Coach of the Year. Todd Orlando was indeed lured away by Houston, scapegoated at Texas and is now the DC at Texas Tech. McGiven is currently the Offensive Coordinator at San Jose State and his QB won Mountain West Offensive Player of the Year in 2019.

Josh Heupel left after a season for Missouri and is now the head coach at Central Florida. Kevin Clune was not a good hire here, at Oregon State or anywhere else. Clune was last at Memphis but it appears he is currently not coaching anywhere.

The Jovon Bouknight and Luke Wells experiment was NOT a good one. Luke Wells will always ride the coattails of his brother. After one season at Oregon, Bouknight is now at Kentucky. Many felt that the Maile led defenses weren't aggressive enough and wondered if perhaps he was in over his head?

Statistically speaking Dave Yost was not so great his first season and phenomenal his second season. Dave Patterson did a fantastic job his one and only season here. We all know both moved on to Texas Tech.

Mike Sanford Jr. did come to Utah State in an effort to resurrect a career that saw him fired from his head coaching job at Western Kentucky. Sanford never got the opportunity to run an offense that he was comfortable/familiar with, he instead unselfishly tried to tailor his skills to fit the abilities of Jordan Love and the offensive scheme of 2019. The 4-3 defensive scheme under Justin Ena was a colossal failure and was scrapped after one season.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Imakeitrain » June 24th, 2020, 11:14 am

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 8:47 pm
Given that:

1) It is June, and
2) I am a degenerate

I am already knee deep in college football preview magazines. One thing that has caught my eye as I survey G5 teams that I would consider perennial contenders is that many of them have been able to hold on to coordinators for more than a few years. I haven't yet done enough research to determine if there are also BAD programs that will hold onto coordinators out of loyalty until the coach is forced to dump them or he is fired and they go packing too.

Here at our beloved Utah State, we've seen that coordinators have a very short shelf life. Here is a short summary going back to the first Andersen hire:

In 2009, Gary brought two new coordinators with him, Dave Baldwin (OC) and Bill Busch (DC). Baldwin lasted until the 2012 season, when he was replaced by Matt Wells. Baldwin was not fired, but instead lured away by CSU. Busch lasted as DC until 2012, when Dave Aranda took over. Both Wells and Aranda had new positions in 2013.

Wells was the new HC (duh), and hired Kevin McGiven (OC) and Todd Orlando (DC). McGiven kinda sucked and was gone after two years. Orlando didn't suck at all, and was also gone after two years when he was hired by Houston.

Josh Heupel (OC) and Kevin Clune (DC) each lasted one year. They both kinda sucked.

Jovon Bouknight and Luke Wells were co-OC in 2016, and Frank Maile was hired as DC in that same year. The co-OC project was an abject failure, but Maile was a great DC.

Yost was hired in 2017 and was here two years, Maile shared DC duties for each of those years.

In 2019, Anderson hired Mike Sanford Jr. (OC) and Justin Ena (DC). Both underperformed, and we've got Maile back as the DC (again, as a co-DC with Stacy Collins), and Bodie Reeder as OC.

The longest we've had a coordinator is 3 years (you can sort of count Maile as a 4th year guy, but it's been nonconsecutive). That's not a ton of time. We have seen great teams most of the years that we've had coordinators come back for a second year. I was optimistic that Sanford would improve in Year 2. I wasn't optimistic that Ena could improve.

I've heard Frank is the coach-in-waiting behind Gary. I love that idea, and I hope it means we have defensive consistency for years to come. I am HOPEFUL Reeder will pick up where Sanford left off, but I expect we won't get rolling again until 2021 (a lighter schedule will help too). It would be amazing if we could retain Bodie after the 2021 season. I think that consistency is what we need to take the next step to compete with Boise State.

Thoughts?
Heupel was hired away and is one of the most successful G5 head coaches.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Naked Bull Rider » June 24th, 2020, 12:27 pm

Imakeitrain wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 11:14 am
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 8:47 pm
Given that:

1) It is June, and
2) I am a degenerate

I am already knee deep in college football preview magazines. One thing that has caught my eye as I survey G5 teams that I would consider perennial contenders is that many of them have been able to hold on to coordinators for more than a few years. I haven't yet done enough research to determine if there are also BAD programs that will hold onto coordinators out of loyalty until the coach is forced to dump them or he is fired and they go packing too.

Here at our beloved Utah State, we've seen that coordinators have a very short shelf life. Here is a short summary going back to the first Andersen hire:

In 2009, Gary brought two new coordinators with him, Dave Baldwin (OC) and Bill Busch (DC). Baldwin lasted until the 2012 season, when he was replaced by Matt Wells. Baldwin was not fired, but instead lured away by CSU. Busch lasted as DC until 2012, when Dave Aranda took over. Both Wells and Aranda had new positions in 2013.

Wells was the new HC (duh), and hired Kevin McGiven (OC) and Todd Orlando (DC). McGiven kinda sucked and was gone after two years. Orlando didn't suck at all, and was also gone after two years when he was hired by Houston.

Josh Heupel (OC) and Kevin Clune (DC) each lasted one year. They both kinda sucked.

Jovon Bouknight and Luke Wells were co-OC in 2016, and Frank Maile was hired as DC in that same year. The co-OC project was an abject failure, but Maile was a great DC.

Yost was hired in 2017 and was here two years, Maile shared DC duties for each of those years.

In 2019, Anderson hired Mike Sanford Jr. (OC) and Justin Ena (DC). Both underperformed, and we've got Maile back as the DC (again, as a co-DC with Stacy Collins), and Bodie Reeder as OC.

The longest we've had a coordinator is 3 years (you can sort of count Maile as a 4th year guy, but it's been nonconsecutive). That's not a ton of time. We have seen great teams most of the years that we've had coordinators come back for a second year. I was optimistic that Sanford would improve in Year 2. I wasn't optimistic that Ena could improve.

I've heard Frank is the coach-in-waiting behind Gary. I love that idea, and I hope it means we have defensive consistency for years to come. I am HOPEFUL Reeder will pick up where Sanford left off, but I expect we won't get rolling again until 2021 (a lighter schedule will help too). It would be amazing if we could retain Bodie after the 2021 season. I think that consistency is what we need to take the next step to compete with Boise State.

Thoughts?
Heupel was hired away and is one of the most successful G5 head coaches.
Heupel inherited one of the best teams in college football; "national champions" depending on who you talk to. Let's give him another two seasons as a HC before we put him on a pedestal.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Naked Bull Rider » June 24th, 2020, 12:32 pm

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 7:24 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 11:10 pm
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Maile has been the co-DC or DC for some of our best defenses in that span. He's also been a team player and moved around where he's needed to give other guys a chance. Beyond all that, I think he's a great CEO-type that can run a program, and his guys love him.
He has been a valuable member of the staff and I think he’d make a better HC than anyone else on our current staff but our advanced defensive rankings dropped big time from 15 to 16 then Shaver gets added then we hire Patterson then GA had the chance to make him DC and didn’t. So I guess I’m unimpressed by his track record as DC.

Good coach and glad he’s on staff though.
From '15 to '16 we lost Nick Vigil, Kyler Fackrell, Marwin Evans, LT Filiaga, Jordan Nielsen, and Torrey Green. That '16 team was one of the youngest, least experienced defenses we have had at Utah State in the last twenty years. To complicate matters, it was also probably the worst offense we've had since the beginning of the Andersen era (Myers regressed further, Tonny Lindsey was the leading rusher, the only real receiving threat was first-year Tarver).

As for Andersen not picking him to be DC, that's because he wanted Ena here and he also saw Frank's need for experience on the offensive side of the ball. Right, wrong, or indifferent; that is the reason for Maile not being DC last year. When GA needed to right the ship in his second year, did he go externally to a number of contacts he had? No, he went with Frank.
Are we sure many guys outside the current program are lining up to work with Gary after he put his Oregon State coordinators on blast? I think GA needs to amend his "Players make plays, Players win games" mantra to include 'Head Coaches lose games'.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Imakeitrain » June 24th, 2020, 1:24 pm

Naked Bull Rider wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 12:27 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 11:14 am
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 8:47 pm
Given that:

1) It is June, and
2) I am a degenerate

I am already knee deep in college football preview magazines. One thing that has caught my eye as I survey G5 teams that I would consider perennial contenders is that many of them have been able to hold on to coordinators for more than a few years. I haven't yet done enough research to determine if there are also BAD programs that will hold onto coordinators out of loyalty until the coach is forced to dump them or he is fired and they go packing too.

Here at our beloved Utah State, we've seen that coordinators have a very short shelf life. Here is a short summary going back to the first Andersen hire:

In 2009, Gary brought two new coordinators with him, Dave Baldwin (OC) and Bill Busch (DC). Baldwin lasted until the 2012 season, when he was replaced by Matt Wells. Baldwin was not fired, but instead lured away by CSU. Busch lasted as DC until 2012, when Dave Aranda took over. Both Wells and Aranda had new positions in 2013.

Wells was the new HC (duh), and hired Kevin McGiven (OC) and Todd Orlando (DC). McGiven kinda sucked and was gone after two years. Orlando didn't suck at all, and was also gone after two years when he was hired by Houston.

Josh Heupel (OC) and Kevin Clune (DC) each lasted one year. They both kinda sucked.

Jovon Bouknight and Luke Wells were co-OC in 2016, and Frank Maile was hired as DC in that same year. The co-OC project was an abject failure, but Maile was a great DC.

Yost was hired in 2017 and was here two years, Maile shared DC duties for each of those years.

In 2019, Anderson hired Mike Sanford Jr. (OC) and Justin Ena (DC). Both underperformed, and we've got Maile back as the DC (again, as a co-DC with Stacy Collins), and Bodie Reeder as OC.

The longest we've had a coordinator is 3 years (you can sort of count Maile as a 4th year guy, but it's been nonconsecutive). That's not a ton of time. We have seen great teams most of the years that we've had coordinators come back for a second year. I was optimistic that Sanford would improve in Year 2. I wasn't optimistic that Ena could improve.

I've heard Frank is the coach-in-waiting behind Gary. I love that idea, and I hope it means we have defensive consistency for years to come. I am HOPEFUL Reeder will pick up where Sanford left off, but I expect we won't get rolling again until 2021 (a lighter schedule will help too). It would be amazing if we could retain Bodie after the 2021 season. I think that consistency is what we need to take the next step to compete with Boise State.

Thoughts?
Heupel was hired away and is one of the most successful G5 head coaches.
Heupel inherited one of the best teams in college football; "national champions" depending on who you talk to. Let's give him another two seasons as a HC before we put him on a pedestal.
If you were a bank would you finance a brand new Porsche to a dude with 550 credit and nothing down?

I agree Heupel inherited a great team. I just don’t think he was the problem given his track record elsewhere.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by YoungBloodAggie » June 24th, 2020, 1:25 pm

Naked Bull Rider wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 12:32 pm
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 7:24 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 11:10 pm
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Maile has been the co-DC or DC for some of our best defenses in that span. He's also been a team player and moved around where he's needed to give other guys a chance. Beyond all that, I think he's a great CEO-type that can run a program, and his guys love him.
He has been a valuable member of the staff and I think he’d make a better HC than anyone else on our current staff but our advanced defensive rankings dropped big time from 15 to 16 then Shaver gets added then we hire Patterson then GA had the chance to make him DC and didn’t. So I guess I’m unimpressed by his track record as DC.

Good coach and glad he’s on staff though.
From '15 to '16 we lost Nick Vigil, Kyler Fackrell, Marwin Evans, LT Filiaga, Jordan Nielsen, and Torrey Green. That '16 team was one of the youngest, least experienced defenses we have had at Utah State in the last twenty years. To complicate matters, it was also probably the worst offense we've had since the beginning of the Andersen era (Myers regressed further, Tonny Lindsey was the leading rusher, the only real receiving threat was first-year Tarver).

As for Andersen not picking him to be DC, that's because he wanted Ena here and he also saw Frank's need for experience on the offensive side of the ball. Right, wrong, or indifferent; that is the reason for Maile not being DC last year. When GA needed to right the ship in his second year, did he go externally to a number of contacts he had? No, he went with Frank.
Are we sure many guys outside the current program are lining up to work with Gary after he put his Oregon State coordinators on blast? I think GA needs to amend his "Players make plays, Players win games" mantra to include 'Head Coaches lose games'.
Great point, he certainly couldn't get anyone from the U to follow him up here (like Ena or Jordan Hicks), and he definitely couldn't bring in anyone externally (like Sanford or Bodie Reeder). And guys that had worked with him before (like Frank, TJ Woods, and Dave Schramm) certainly haven't signed up to work with him again. No sir, we just don't have any indication as to whether GA can get anyone to join his coaching staff.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Naked Bull Rider » June 24th, 2020, 2:35 pm

YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 1:25 pm
Naked Bull Rider wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 12:32 pm
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 7:24 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 11:10 pm
YoungBloodAggie wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:40 pm
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
You forgot Patterson in there. I don’t think Maile was a great DC or even a good one. There’s a reason he’s been replaced in that job or someone was hired to help him multiple times. Hopefully this times the charm.

Seems we have two choices: up and comer or coach reviving his career. Aranda and Orlando were the former and Patterson the latter. On offense I think Sanford was trying to revive his career after getting fired. Didn’t work.

We will never have a top shelf coordinator budget but I hope we can develop a pipeline so we can replace coordinators with internal hires that can keep systems in place. Seems Boise has done well with that strategy but I might be wrong.
Maile has been the co-DC or DC for some of our best defenses in that span. He's also been a team player and moved around where he's needed to give other guys a chance. Beyond all that, I think he's a great CEO-type that can run a program, and his guys love him.
He has been a valuable member of the staff and I think he’d make a better HC than anyone else on our current staff but our advanced defensive rankings dropped big time from 15 to 16 then Shaver gets added then we hire Patterson then GA had the chance to make him DC and didn’t. So I guess I’m unimpressed by his track record as DC.

Good coach and glad he’s on staff though.
From '15 to '16 we lost Nick Vigil, Kyler Fackrell, Marwin Evans, LT Filiaga, Jordan Nielsen, and Torrey Green. That '16 team was one of the youngest, least experienced defenses we have had at Utah State in the last twenty years. To complicate matters, it was also probably the worst offense we've had since the beginning of the Andersen era (Myers regressed further, Tonny Lindsey was the leading rusher, the only real receiving threat was first-year Tarver).

As for Andersen not picking him to be DC, that's because he wanted Ena here and he also saw Frank's need for experience on the offensive side of the ball. Right, wrong, or indifferent; that is the reason for Maile not being DC last year. When GA needed to right the ship in his second year, did he go externally to a number of contacts he had? No, he went with Frank.
Are we sure many guys outside the current program are lining up to work with Gary after he put his Oregon State coordinators on blast? I think GA needs to amend his "Players make plays, Players win games" mantra to include 'Head Coaches lose games'.
Great point, he certainly couldn't get anyone from the U to follow him up here (like Ena or Jordan Hicks), and he definitely couldn't bring in anyone externally (like Sanford or Bodie Reeder). And guys that had worked with him before (like Frank, TJ Woods, and Dave Schramm) certainly haven't signed up to work with him again. No sir, we just don't have any indication as to whether GA can get anyone to join his coaching staff.

Lol. All I did was a pose a legitimate question. This is a thread about coordinator turnover and I felt like my concern was relevant to the conversation. If you were a coordinator or a positions coach looking for a change of scenery, would you want to work for a guy that texted the following to a media member and gave them permission to print it?

"I hired the wrong f—g guys and are still working our way through a bunch of recruiting years that stunk!! It's year three! If these f—rs can't get it right I will not just say fire them and start over!! That's not the way to go about it. If I (mess) it up that bad I will take the bullet and ride off into the sunset! I will stay old school!! I will not die doing this s—!! Stay tuned!"

My thoughts on your examples:

Sanford had just been fired as a HC and would have taken a coordinator position at just about any G5 program.

Ena was a positions coach and lured away for an opportunity to be a coordinator. That worked out well.

Hicks... not sure what the prestige and/or pay-grade difference is between an Assistant Director of Sports Performance and a Head Strength and Conditioning Coach is. I imagine his position at USU was a step up, but I'm not sure. We will put this one in the W column for you.

Reeder (like Sanford) had just been fired. He was coming off only one season as a coordinator at the FBS level.

Maile was already here. Apparently he's the future of USU football?? Don't necessarily hate that notion. Time will tell.

Woods has literally followed Gary everywhere since GA hired him in '09 (exception being GA's brief pit stop back at Utah for a year). They are obviously very close.

Schramm was pulled up from the FCS ranks.

I think it is likely that there are people in the industry (especially in the west) that saw GA's public comments and made a decision to avoid working with him if given the opportunity. I don't think it is far-fetched to assume GA closed some doors with that one.

When talking about some of the guys above, I should mention that I realize that coaches jump up from FCS to FBS all the time, and it is not uncommon for a positions coach at a P5 to leave for the chance to work as a coordinator at a G5. However, both OCs hired under GA's renewed tenure were in desperation-mode. Additionally, the only name mentioned that didn't either work with or directly for GA in the past was Sanford Jr. Although his father, Sanford Sr., worked with GA years ago.

I don't think any of these guys are bad coaches, but my original question will probably linger in my mind until I see GA 2.0 bring in fresh faces and maybe poach a proven coordinator from another FBS level program. One that is not coming off a termination or has previous overlap with GA.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by NavyBlueAggie » June 26th, 2020, 2:11 pm

Coaches are a nomadic people, hired to be fired and this they know. Frank began at USU in 2009 as a G A, paid his dues, went to Vandy for a couple of seasons and is now back in Logan. When ha was our co/ D C I watched his defenses get worked in the second half, and I wonder what preparation and adjustment capacity we will see this season.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by aggies22 » June 26th, 2020, 4:17 pm

I love Coach Maile and his strong leadership qualities, his players love the man. However, does anyone realize that Coach Collins is the "in the booth" play-caller this upcoming season?
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by NavyBlueAggie » June 26th, 2020, 5:55 pm

aggies22 wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 4:17 pm
I love Coach Maile and his strong leadership qualities, his players love the man. However, does anyone realize that Coach Collins is the "in the booth" play-caller this upcoming season?
Thank you again 22 for your insight. I did wonder about what internal arrangements would be made with this dual D C announcement.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Intermeddler » June 26th, 2020, 8:14 pm

aggies22 wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 4:17 pm
I love Coach Maile and his strong leadership qualities, his players love the man. However, does anyone realize that Coach Collins is the "in the booth" play-caller this upcoming season?
I think some do and others think he has been and will be a great DC. I think he’ll make an excellent head coach one day and has lots of great qualities as a coach.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by AggiesForever » July 4th, 2020, 6:34 am

Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
Schramm was pulled up from the FCS ranks.
Dave Schramm was pulled from the FCS ranks, but if you remember, he was the offensive coordinator at Utah under Whitt a few years back, so he's not exactly "chopped liver!"



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by aggies22 » July 4th, 2020, 9:02 am

AggiesForever wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 6:34 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
Schramm was pulled up from the FCS ranks.
Dave Schramm was pulled from the FCS ranks, but if you remember, he was the offensive coordinator at Utah under Whitt a few years back, so he's not exactly "chopped liver!"
If I remember correctly, he's also been at Fresno State.



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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by AGGIEinIOWA » July 4th, 2020, 12:58 pm

aggies22 wrote:
AggiesForever wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 6:34 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
Schramm was pulled up from the FCS ranks.
Dave Schramm was pulled from the FCS ranks, but if you remember, he was the offensive coordinator at Utah under Whitt a few years back, so he's not exactly "chopped liver!"
If I remember correctly, he's also been at Fresno State.
Schramm was the OC/QB coach at Fresno for 2012-2015. They won the MWC in 2012 and 2013 and he was QB coach for Derek Carr those seasons. Not sure if he was the beneficiary of having Carr or vice versa, but either way he has had some great success as both a coordinator and position coach throughout his career.
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Re: A philosophical question:

Post by Intermeddler » July 4th, 2020, 8:09 pm

aggies22 wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 9:02 am
AggiesForever wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 6:34 am
Intermeddler wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:38 pm
Schramm was pulled up from the FCS ranks.
Dave Schramm was pulled from the FCS ranks, but if you remember, he was the offensive coordinator at Utah under Whitt a few years back, so he's not exactly "chopped liver!"
If I remember correctly, he's also been at Fresno State.
Not sure how this quote got attributed to me but I didn’t say it.



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