The lesson here

SLB · Post by **SLB** » December 11th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Pick your words carefully especially in tough situations.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » December 11th, 2020, 5:44 pm

I don't know what to take of it. It sure would be nice to know what these comments are.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 5:45 pm

What if, rather than jumping to the worst possible conclusion, we gave people the benefit of the doubt and asked more questions.

Anybody who believes Cockett purposely said something bigoted is crazy. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences, depending on what was said, but consider me doubtful that what was said is worthy of taking her career from her.

newhouse9 · Post by **newhouse9** » December 11th, 2020, 5:48 pm

There are no casual conversations.

newhouse9 · Post by **newhouse9** » December 11th, 2020, 5:50 pm

Have any of you found the full text of her comments as shown in Twitter?

taniataylor · Post by **taniataylor** » December 11th, 2020, 5:51 pm

newhouse9 wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:50 pm
Have any of you found the full text of her comments as shown in Twitter?

They are all on different posts, due to space limitations under the one that is posted here

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 5:58 pm

Twitter is such a hell-hole. I deleted my account a few months ago and it was the best thing that happened to me in 2020.

newhouse9 · Post by **newhouse9** » December 11th, 2020, 6:04 pm

Yeah, I don't do social media. Just a lot of cess pool stuff.

lionhead · Post by **lionhead** » December 11th, 2020, 6:10 pm

I love Aggie Sports, but the prima Donna aspect of coddled children is coming out. There is NOOOO WAY the President of USU made any comment that put down a religion or ethnicity. This is not a strong group of young men. They appear undisciplined in life as well as on the field. They should play the game and talk out the issue behind closed doors. Tell me of another situation when this has happened at any University. It's unacceptable! This childish behavior will stay with USU forever.

stang · Post by **stang** » December 11th, 2020, 6:17 pm

lionhead wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:10 pm
I love Aggie Sports, but the prima Donna aspect of coddled children is coming out. There is NOOOO WAY the President of USU made any comment that put down a religion or ethnicity. This is not a strong group of young men. They appear undisciplined in life as well as on the field. They should play the game and talk out the issue behind closed doors. Tell me of another situation when this has happened at any University. It's unacceptable! This childish behavior will stay with USU forever.

So you've somehow reached the conclusion that our entire team is a bunch of babies, they're all undisciplined, and that absolutely none of this is true, there's a zero percent chance that a university president could ever slip up and say something racist or bigoted?

Wow. You must have way more information than has been relayed to the public, because those are some incredible conclusions to reach from the limited info that I've come across!

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » December 11th, 2020, 6:31 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:17 pm

lionhead wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:10 pm
I love Aggie Sports, but the prima Donna aspect of coddled children is coming out. There is NOOOO WAY the President of USU made any comment that put down a religion or ethnicity. This is not a strong group of young men. They appear undisciplined in life as well as on the field. They should play the game and talk out the issue behind closed doors. Tell me of another situation when this has happened at any University. It's unacceptable! This childish behavior will stay with USU forever.
So you've somehow reached the conclusion that our entire team is a bunch of babies, they're all undisciplined, and that absolutely none of this is true, there's a zero percent chance that a university president could ever slip up and say something racist or bigoted?

Wow. You must have way more information than has been relayed to the public, because those are some incredible conclusions to reach from the limited info that I've come across!

100+ players weren't on the Zoom. Then came the "Did you hear what I heard" communication. Then they reached a concensus on what they thought they heard. And only then did they tell the ~100 what was said and pushed for the vote. Isn't that right?

Are you taking the position that a single or a few voice(s) became the only voice because of a pro Frank agenda? The opportunity to manipulate others' perception is perhaps the most important consideration here.

SLB · Post by **SLB** » December 11th, 2020, 6:36 pm

I took both sides at their word, and my point is to not say one side is bad. Pick your words carefully especially in situations like this where a beloved coach on his way out with a bad season with many upset football players.

Harcher · Post by **Harcher** » December 11th, 2020, 6:38 pm

Cockett is innocent... innocent until proven guilty.

So jumping to a conclusion of innocent is reasonable.

And that is where i'm at on this. And just like everyone else has clamored for: provide some evidence and then truth will come out.

USUGrad01 · Post by **USUGrad01** » December 11th, 2020, 6:39 pm

I would bet that something was said along the lines of, “we can’t just hire Coach Maile because he is LDS and Polynesian”. In other words, even though those two point are true, they aren’t the most important factors in this decision. The players didn’t like the logic, and being super sensitive right now, misinterpreted the statement.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » December 11th, 2020, 6:40 pm

The lesson here:

It is the responsibility of the athletic director to make his selection of head coaches and present them to the university president and board of trustees. The AD should make his decision with the help of professional agencies or other available confidants at his disposal that have experience and opinions in the matter. It is not recommended that the AD give strong consideration to 20 year-old kids' opinions about the only coach that they have known in their short career and who will no longer be a part of the team in 1 or 2 years. This is a long-term decision and is bigger than the opinion of the players. The AD should welcome input and even one-on-one meetings, but should not use these opinions to make his decision.

The meeting with Cockett, Hartwell, and the team should have never happened. They were trying to be too PC and accommodating and it has come back to bite them.

Harcher · Post by **Harcher** » December 11th, 2020, 6:42 pm

Another thing possibly said was "we need diversity" in some manner, meaning football diversity, not cultural diversity. Many of us have been exposed to the work place of the two 'diversity' theme. "People of different cultures generically" and "People of different work cultures" (ya know we hire from outside to promote a diversity of thought)

AgMac · Post by **AgMac** » December 11th, 2020, 6:44 pm

taniataylor wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:51 pm

newhouse9 wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:50 pm
Have any of you found the full text of her comments as shown in Twitter?
They are all on different posts, due to space limitations under the one that is posted here

No. There is no full text of her comments. There is no account of her comments. There is dead air from the players about what was actually said. All we have are vague accusations of discrimination from kids who are angry that the administration didn't hire who they wanted. Tell us what she said, players!

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » December 11th, 2020, 6:58 pm

SLB wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Pick your words carefully especially in tough situations.

Bad idea

Smokin Joe · Post by **Smokin Joe** » December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm

Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?

USU78 · Post by **USU78** » December 11th, 2020, 7:12 pm

Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?

Ouch. That hadda leave a mark.

stang · Post by **stang** » December 11th, 2020, 7:12 pm

Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?

Good lord. I've seen a lot of terrible, uninformed, ignorant takes today, but this one takes the cake.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » December 11th, 2020, 7:14 pm

USU78 wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:58 pm

SLB wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Pick your words carefully especially in tough situations.
Bad idea

Yes, she is following the appeasement script that every University president or professor reverts to when snowflaked. It only eggs them on. This is going to end badly for her and groans from her lawyer who advised her to shut up for now.

Smokin Joe · Post by **Smokin Joe** » December 11th, 2020, 7:23 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:12 pm

Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?
Good lord. I've seen a lot of terrible, uninformed, ignorant takes today, but this one takes the cake.

I hope Coach Anderson comes in and shows the door to every single player who pretended to give a damn about anti-LDS bigotry as an excuse not to play football in a temper tantrum that their "buddy" didn't get the head coaching job. We desperately need a house cleaning.

Smokin Joe · Post by **Smokin Joe** » December 11th, 2020, 7:25 pm

Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:23 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:12 pm

Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?
Good lord. I've seen a lot of terrible, uninformed, ignorant takes today, but this one takes the cake.
I hope Coach Anderson comes in and shows the door to every single player who pretended to give a damn about anti-LDS bigotry as an excuse not to play football in a temper tantrum that their "buddy" didn't get the head coaching job. We desperately need a house cleaning because it appears we have very few actual men on this team, though apparently we do have a goodly number of little girls"

CastIronAggie · Post by **CastIronAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 7:28 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:17 pm

lionhead wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 6:10 pm
I love Aggie Sports, but the prima Donna aspect of coddled children is coming out. There is NOOOO WAY the President of USU made any comment that put down a religion or ethnicity. This is not a strong group of young men. They appear undisciplined in life as well as on the field. They should play the game and talk out the issue behind closed doors. Tell me of another situation when this has happened at any University. It's unacceptable! This childish behavior will stay with USU forever.
So you've somehow reached the conclusion that our entire team is a bunch of babies, they're all undisciplined, and that absolutely none of this is true, there's a zero percent chance that a university president could ever slip up and say something racist or bigoted?

Wow. You must have way more information than has been relayed to the public, because those are some incredible conclusions to reach from the limited info that I've come across!

The problem is that they've refused to even write out their acussation. I don't know what I'm even supposed to be believing until they tell us. Until then, I remain pretty skeptical.

Smokin Joe · Post by **Smokin Joe** » December 11th, 2020, 7:28 pm

stang wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:12 pm

Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?
Good lord. I've seen a lot of terrible, uninformed, ignorant takes today, but this one takes the cake.

How so?

Ethereal_Owl · Post by **Ethereal_Owl** » December 11th, 2020, 7:46 pm

stang wrote:
Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?
Good lord. I've seen a lot of terrible, uninformed, ignorant takes today, but this one takes the cake.

Not trying to fan the flames here but why is it ignorant to wonder what makes 20 year old players, just out of high school, qualified to select a coach to run our entire program? Never, in my professional career, has any employee been asked to give their input on who the leader of the business should be. The person they might select is the person that enables poor performance and fails to hold them to standards. Most qualified person gets the job. Not saying our players aren’t smart but they aren’t the ones paid to make these decisions. The people paid to make these decisions have the experience, connections and scope to do it. Just my take

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stucki · Post by **Stucki** » December 11th, 2020, 8:01 pm

After reading many overreactions from several posters saying less flattering things about the players in the program, I remembered that in a not exactly parallel situation, that Lloyd Eaton had a great deal of community support.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » December 11th, 2020, 8:03 pm

Ethereal_Owl wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:46 pm

stang wrote:
Smokin Joe wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Let's call this what it actually is: a group of immature (and frankly, stupid) prima donna football players with a pathetic won-loss record somehow got it into their heads that the world revolves around them and concomitantly that somehow it is de rigueur for the University president and AD not merely to consult them on who the University should hire to coach them, but to actually give them veto power over the decision! It is the quintessence of nonsense to believe these kids care so deeply about Mormons (or Polynesians for that matter) that a remark that might be creatively construed as religiously or culturally insensitive offended them so deeply that they had no choice but to make a stand against religious and cultural bigotry and this no less on behalf of a culture dominated by Mormons and to a lesser degree Polynesians! That is utter nonsense. In fact and in truth, these "players" (I use the term guardedly) actually care so little about cultural and religious bigotry that they are willing to hijack it for the illegitimate purpose of camouflaging their own narcissism and justifying their temper tantrum over not being permitted to dictate who their coach is. No wonder this "team" got blown out in damn near every game they played this season! The reason is now irrefutably evident and it has little if anything to do with coaching and everything to do with character. Is there an actual man among them? Can someone please arrange to send these children masquerading post-pubescent footballers back to junior high school and a second chance at growing up?
Good lord. I've seen a lot of terrible, uninformed, ignorant takes today, but this one takes the cake.
Not trying to fan the flames here but why is it ignorant to wonder what makes 20 year old players, just out of high school, qualified to select a coach to run our entire program? Never, in my professional career, has any employee been asked to give their input on who the leader of the business should be. The person they might select is the person that enables poor performance and fails to hold them to standards. Most qualified person gets the job. Not saying our players aren’t smart but they aren’t the ones paid to make these decisions. The people paid to make these decisions have the experience, connections and scope to do it. Just my take

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is what I don't understand as well. Whenever I hire one of my managers I don't ask the people that they're going to be managing who I should pick or even let them have a say in who is going to be picked. Quite frankly Hartwell and cockett should not have needed to even meet with the players it is not their say in who is the coach. They are on scholarship to play football and get an education. Quite frankly them not wanting to play over some accused accusations of words is embarrassing. They should still be playing the game. If there were something sad that were not correct then fine bring them up to him and let's address that separately but to say you're not going to play the football game that you signed up to play is a joke.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 8:04 pm

Stucki wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:01 pm
After reading many overreactions from several posters saying less flattering things about the players in the program, I remembered that in a not exactly parallel situation, that Lloyd Eaton had a great deal of community support.

Not a lot of gray area in what he did. Quite a lot at the moment in this situation.

Supporting Eaton knowing full well what he did is one thing, quite another to support Cockett given the complete lack of evidence against her.

Stucki · Post by **Stucki** » December 11th, 2020, 8:12 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:04 pm

Stucki wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:01 pm
After reading many overreactions from several posters saying less flattering things about the players in the program, I remembered that in a not exactly parallel situation, that Lloyd Eaton had a great deal of community support.
Not a lot of gray area in what he did. Quite a lot at the moment in this situation.

Supporting Eaton knowing full well what he did is one thing, quite another to support Cockett given the complete lack of evidence against her.

I could have said similar things about the overreactions condemning all Hartwell, Cockett, Maile and the other coaches. We don't know what was said. We have an understanding of how it was received. The fact that any of us are taking sides right now reflects poorly on all of us. We all want to know what really happened, but we don't know and probably won't ever know. On an unrelated note, I've also been amused by those condemning social media as a cesspool, which admittedly it often resembles, while behaving exactly the same ways on this board. I know it is a message board and that is how it works, but you could say that our actions tonight are the real black eye on USU athletics rather than the premature claims about he actions of the players, coaches, or admin.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 8:17 pm

Stucki wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:12 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:04 pm

Stucki wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:01 pm
After reading many overreactions from several posters saying less flattering things about the players in the program, I remembered that in a not exactly parallel situation, that Lloyd Eaton had a great deal of community support.
Not a lot of gray area in what he did. Quite a lot at the moment in this situation.

Supporting Eaton knowing full well what he did is one thing, quite another to support Cockett given the complete lack of evidence against her.
I could have said similar things about the overreactions condemning all Hartwell, Cockett, Maile and the other coaches. We don't know what was said. We have an understanding of how it was received. The fact that any of us are taking sides right now reflects poorly on all of us. We all want to know what really happened, but we don't know and probably won't ever know. On an unrelated note, I've also been amused by those condemning social media as a cesspool, which admittedly it often resembles, while behaving exactly the same ways on this board. I know it is a message board and that is how it works, but you could say that our actions tonight are the real black eye on USU athletics rather than the premature claims about he actions of the players, coaches, or admin.

The burden if proof is on the accusers. They've failed to do anything other than levy an accusation.

Her history suggests Cockett is unlikely to have made bigoted comments (doesn't mean she didn't, just that it's unlikely). Meanwhile, we know players have been upset about things and that they wanted Frank hired and these accusations come out the day that doesn't happen. Most of us are just playing the odds, given the lack of evidence provided by the accusers.

Stucki · Post by **Stucki** » December 11th, 2020, 8:24 pm

Stucki wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:12 pm

3rdGenAggie wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:04 pm

Stucki wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:01 pm
After reading many overreactions from several posters saying less flattering things about the players in the program, I remembered that in a not exactly parallel situation, that Lloyd Eaton had a great deal of community support.
Not a lot of gray area in what he did. Quite a lot at the moment in this situation.

Supporting Eaton knowing full well what he did is one thing, quite another to support Cockett given the complete lack of evidence against her.
I could have said similar things about the overreactions condemning all Hartwell, Cockett, Maile and the other coaches. We don't know what was said. We have an understanding of how it was received. The fact that any of us are taking sides right now reflects poorly on all of us. We all want to know what really happened, but we don't know and probably won't ever know. On an unrelated note, I've also been amused by those condemning social media as a cesspool, which admittedly it often resembles, while behaving exactly the same ways on this board. I know it is a message board and that is how it works, but you could say that our actions tonight are the real black eye on USU athletics rather than the premature claims about he actions of the players, coaches, or admin.

That is an understandable and reasonable reaction. I'm more referring to the name calling and similar things which is understandable but not reasonable.
I am not an attorney, but my understanding is that assumption of innocence and burden of proof issues are much different for civil matters than criminal matters. Since there are several practicing attorneys on the board, perhaps they can correct my ignorance on such matters.

Ag4life · Post by **Ag4life** » December 11th, 2020, 8:28 pm

I’ve interacted a decent amount with Noelle in situations where she didn’t have to be politically correct or overly cautious about who she was talking to and my only take away is how she cares for every student. Both in attempts to support the minority, the struggling poor student, or anything else. She’s never come across as out of touch with reality or anything like that.

So, I will let personal interactions and past actions speak volumes right now as the opposing view lacks any specifics. Until more specific details come out, I have to believe this is nothing more than misinterpreting what was said. It may be valid, but it could also be a situation that both parties are potentially wrong. She said something in a way she wasn’t meaning for it to come out like that and the players interpreted something even further that wasn’t really said.

3rdGenAggie · Post by **3rdGenAggie** » December 11th, 2020, 8:32 pm

Ag4life wrote: ↑
December 11th, 2020, 8:28 pm
I’ve interacted a decent amount with Noelle in situations where she didn’t have to be politically correct or overly cautious about who she was talking to and my only take away is how she cares for every student. Both in attempts to support the minority, the struggling poor student, or anything else. She’s never come across as out of touch with reality or anything like that.

So, I will let personal interactions and past actions speak volumes right now as the opposing view lacks any specifics. Until more specific details come out, I have to believe this is nothing more than misinterpreting what was said. It may be valid, but it could also be a situation that both parties are potentially wrong. She said something in a way she wasn’t meaning for it to come out like that and the players interpreted something even further that wasn’t really said.

I would be shocked if the truth was was not VERY close to the scenario you suggested here.

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