Shovel Pass

Maverik_Aggie · Post by **Maverik_Aggie** » September 19th, 2021, 11:30 am

I’m still reeling about that shovel pass on 4th and 7 inside our 15. We aren’t afraid to take risks! Anyone have the clip?

What a play call! Great to give it to the TE Terrell too he is tougher to bring down.

QuackAttackAggie · Post by **QuackAttackAggie** » September 19th, 2021, 12:28 pm

It was 4th and 3 at our 22 with 4:15 left if you want to skip to it in the game footage. The next play was an in completion, followed by the game winning TD run for 61 yards.

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NavyBlueAggie · Post by **NavyBlueAggie** » September 19th, 2021, 12:45 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:28 pm
It was 4th and 3 at our 22 with 4:15 left if you want to skip to it in the game footage. The next play was an in completion, followed by the game winning TD run for 61 yards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was traveling last night. Where can the game footage be found please QUACK?

Dwigt · Post by **Dwigt** » September 19th, 2021, 12:58 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:45 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:28 pm
It was 4th and 3 at our 22 with 4:15 left if you want to skip to it in the game footage. The next play was an in completion, followed by the game winning TD run for 61 yards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was traveling last night. Where can the game footage be found please QUACK?

Go to the downloads section on here then to video.

Post by **ProvoAggie** » September 19th, 2021, 1:06 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:45 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:28 pm
It was 4th and 3 at our 22 with 4:15 left if you want to skip to it in the game footage. The next play was an in completion, followed by the game winning TD run for 61 yards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was traveling last night. Where can the game footage be found please QUACK?

https://www.usufans.com/Forums/viewtopi ... 12&t=59075

OrangeCountyAggie · Post by **OrangeCountyAggie** » September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm

It just shows the big cojones coach Anderson has. Guaranteed the last two coaches would have punted. Plays like that and not running the clock out at halftime, prove this guy will do anything to win which resonates with the team.

MWCFAN12 · Post by **MWCFAN12** » September 19th, 2021, 6:03 pm

I love that it isn't even a thought on 4th.. It is just next play up. Doesn't even think about it. Like it is a scheduled script play. Doesn't give the defense time to think about it either which I love.

GameFAQSAggie · Post by **GameFAQSAggie** » September 19th, 2021, 6:04 pm

You will see the fourth down conversion at 1:30

MWCFAN12 · Post by **MWCFAN12** » September 19th, 2021, 6:07 pm

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 6:04 pm
You will see the fourth down conversion at 1:30

Awesome. And if you are 3520fun. You are an awesome human. And i thank you big time.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » September 19th, 2021, 6:41 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm
It just shows the big cojones coach Anderson has. Guaranteed the last two coaches would have punted. Plays like that and not running the clock out at halftime, prove this guy will do anything to win which resonates with the team.

The other part of this - and the TV guy noted this - that play doesn't work with Bonner. Peasley had converted a fourth down on a keeper and his speed. When Peasley tucks the ball, Air Force defenders had to defend against him running. Peasley takes two or three steps like he's going to run again, Terrell releases, a perfect shovel pass, and the drive continues.

usufan1 · Post by **usufan1** » September 19th, 2021, 6:56 pm

I didn't notice while watching the game live, but could that have potentially been another missed roughing the passer call during the shovel pass?

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FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 19th, 2021, 7:39 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm
It just shows the big cojones coach Anderson has. Guaranteed the last two coaches would have punted. Plays like that and not running the clock out at halftime, prove this guy will do anything to win which resonates with the team.

Yep. With just over four minutes remaining we wouldn't have gotten the ball back as all AF would have needed was two first downs to ice the game.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 19th, 2021, 7:41 pm

Also, kudos to the LG #58. He pulls and does just enough to stop the inside pursuit from getting to Terrell right away.

AggieHead · Post by **AggieHead** » September 19th, 2021, 7:45 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm
It just shows the big cojones coach Anderson has. Guaranteed the last two coaches would have punted. Plays like that and not running the clock out at halftime, prove this guy will do anything to win which resonates with the team.

You are 100% right. They would have punted. Also, how nice was it that our offense could actually runs for a first down to ice the game. Couldn’t so that the last couple years. Always had to punt it back

AGGIEinIOWA · Post by **AGGIEinIOWA** » September 19th, 2021, 7:49 pm

What also helped on that shovel pass play is when Tyler left the back field and motioned out to the left side. Two AF defenders got confused on who was going to take him so they both moved Tyler's direction. Then when the ball was snapped, the one defender who would have been lined up with Terrell was too far away and took too long to get to Peasley, giving Peasley more time for the defense to pursue him before executing the shovel.

Post by **aggies22** » September 19th, 2021, 9:26 pm

This staff calls plays like they don't give a damn what $hit storm will come their way if it doesn't work.

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » September 19th, 2021, 10:56 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 9:26 pm
This staff calls plays like they don't give a damn what $hit storm will come their way if it doesn't work.

I love it. The onside kick too.
This is the kind of guts I've been wanting. It's what I was always envious of with Petersen in Boise.

Post by **AGinNEIowa** » September 20th, 2021, 8:21 am

just watched the replay (thanks for posting that final series @GameFAQSAggie!)

#58 Demytrick Ali'fua put a great block on the defender #26 who was trailing Terrell down the line.

Post by **GeoAg** » September 20th, 2021, 8:27 am

Yossarian wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 6:41 pm

OrangeCountyAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 6:00 pm
It just shows the big cojones coach Anderson has. Guaranteed the last two coaches would have punted. Plays like that and not running the clock out at halftime, prove this guy will do anything to win which resonates with the team.
The other part of this - and the TV guy noted this - that play doesn't work with Bonner. Peasley had converted a fourth down on a keeper and his speed. When Peasley tucks the ball, Air Force defenders had to defend against him running. Peasley takes two or three steps like he's going to run again, Terrell releases, a perfect shovel pass, and the drive continues.

Disagree. It is 4th and 3. They have to react to any runner. The play works with either QB.

tinplater · Post by **tinplater** » September 20th, 2021, 8:52 am

Actually I thought the call was too gutsy...just imagine if it didn't work, game over. This board would be going nuts. I have seen so many shovel passes fail, dropped pass, hitting a lineman. Don't get me wrong, I am as delighted as anyone that it worked, it just was a very high risk call but had it failed the outcry would be deafening. Going for it deep in our territory with plenty of time for a defensive stop was risky enough. The pass is attributed to "Cactus Jack" Curtice, coach at Utah in the 1950's. Be interesting to note what the success of the pass is? Anyone have any data concerning shovel passes?

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » September 20th, 2021, 8:59 am

Great play call and great execution. I think it is good to go for it like we do. It gets the players focused on their responsibilities. It pays off at the end of tight games because we can just make the call and execute. The players don't have to sit and think about how critical the play is in the game. I think our high rate of success on 4th down can be attributed to our confidence. That confidence has been built upon practice and execution.

dirtnsnow · Post by **dirtnsnow** » September 20th, 2021, 9:00 am

tinplater wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 8:52 am
Actually I thought the call was too gutsy...just imagine if it didn't work, game over. This board would be going nuts. I have seen so many shovel passes fail, dropped pass, hitting a lineman. Don't get me wrong, I am as delighted as anyone that it worked, it just was a very high risk call but had it failed the outcry would be deafening. Going for it deep in our territory with plenty of time for a defensive stop was risky enough. The pass is attributed to "Cactus Jack" Curtice, coach at Utah in the 1950's. Be interesting to note what the success of the pass is? Anyone have any data concerning shovel passes?

But we weren't stopping them reliably enough to trust that we'd get the ball back at all.

splintorb · Post by **splintorb** » September 20th, 2021, 9:01 am

dirtnsnow wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 9:00 am

tinplater wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 8:52 am
Actually I thought the call was too gutsy...just imagine if it didn't work, game over. This board would be going nuts. I have seen so many shovel passes fail, dropped pass, hitting a lineman. Don't get me wrong, I am as delighted as anyone that it worked, it just was a very high risk call but had it failed the outcry would be deafening. Going for it deep in our territory with plenty of time for a defensive stop was risky enough. The pass is attributed to "Cactus Jack" Curtice, coach at Utah in the 1950's. Be interesting to note what the success of the pass is? Anyone have any data concerning shovel passes?
But we weren't stopping them reliably enough to trust that we'd get the ball back at all.

Absolutely, us going for it gave us the best opportunity to win. We had shown no consistency stopping them. Very high possibility they run out the clock or score a touchdown and the game is over. I would much rather we go for it at that point.

Post by **GeoAg** » September 20th, 2021, 9:52 am

splintorb wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 9:01 am

dirtnsnow wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 9:00 am

tinplater wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 8:52 am
Actually I thought the call was too gutsy...just imagine if it didn't work, game over. This board would be going nuts. I have seen so many shovel passes fail, dropped pass, hitting a lineman. Don't get me wrong, I am as delighted as anyone that it worked, it just was a very high risk call but had it failed the outcry would be deafening. Going for it deep in our territory with plenty of time for a defensive stop was risky enough. The pass is attributed to "Cactus Jack" Curtice, coach at Utah in the 1950's. Be interesting to note what the success of the pass is? Anyone have any data concerning shovel passes?
But we weren't stopping them reliably enough to trust that we'd get the ball back at all.
Absolutely, us going for it gave us the best opportunity to win. We had shown no consistency stopping them. Very high possibility they run out the clock or score a touchdown and the game is over. I would much rather we go for it at that point.

Totally agree. When you have an opportunity to win with your best unit, you go for it. If our D us that unit, punt. If not, put it in the hands of the offense.

The best block on the play was South on the LB trying to shoot the gap just inside if him. Completely ate him up in the block, which was right at the point of attack.

Also, in watching the drive, AFA D is just not any good. Not sure how they held Navy.

SweepDance · Post by **SweepDance** » September 20th, 2021, 10:13 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 9:26 pm
This staff calls plays like they don't give a damn what $hit storm will come their way if it doesn't work.

...and this is exactly why most coaches wouldn't go for it in that situation. It was absolutely the right decision and I'm sure any advanced analytics experts would agree. I'd rather go down swinging and would have supported the decision even if it failed. Fortunately, we had a brilliant play call to back it up!

brownjeans · Post by **brownjeans** » September 20th, 2021, 11:10 am

My analytics say this - in 12 AFA possessions, we forced 2 punts.
Up to that point, we were 1-2 in converting 4th downs in the game, 7-10 on the year.
Now we're 8-11 on the year. That's impressive.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 20th, 2021, 11:14 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 9:26 pm
This staff calls plays like they don't give a damn what $hit storm will come their way if it doesn't work.

They don't give an eff about nothin!

Sl7vk · Post by **Sl7vk** » September 20th, 2021, 11:18 am

What made the shovel pass work was how well it was disguised.
Terrell never looked like he was the center of that play, and seemed to be setting up for a block.
I've seen so many telegraphed looks like that from the MW and GA regimes, that it was refreshing to see some work put into the play.
We were all worried that Banda's time in Logan was going to be short lived, but it seems that Tucker will be 1 and done in Logan if this continues (and I hope it does).

NavyBlueAggie · Post by **NavyBlueAggie** » September 20th, 2021, 11:44 am

Dwigt wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:58 pm

NavyBlueAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:45 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑
September 19th, 2021, 12:28 pm
It was 4th and 3 at our 22 with 4:15 left if you want to skip to it in the game footage. The next play was an in completion, followed by the game winning TD run for 61 yards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was traveling last night. Where can the game footage be found please QUACK?
Go to the downloads section on here then to video.

Many thank to you DWIGT.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » September 20th, 2021, 12:15 pm

I loved the shovel pass. I loved how Terrell knew what was coming, but did not give away any indication what the play was. It was for sure the right decision to go for it. There is 4 minutes left and if you punt you may not see the ball back. It was great block from Alifua to spring him as well. I love how Coach A does not even think twice about these 4th down calls, he just lines up and goes for them. With GA or Wells as the coach I would guess they would have punted in that situation and we likely lose the game.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » September 20th, 2021, 12:31 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 12:15 pm
I loved the shovel pass. I loved how Terrell knew what was coming, but did not give away any indication what the play was. It was for sure the right decision to go for it. There is 4 minutes left and if you punt you may not see the ball back. It was great block from Alifua to spring him as well. I love how Coach A does not even think twice about these 4th down calls, he just lines up and goes for them. With GA or Wells as the coach I would guess they would have punted in that situation and we likely lose the game.

Wells and GA punt in that situation if we were on the AFA 40 yard line.

Sl7vk · Post by **Sl7vk** » September 20th, 2021, 12:41 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 12:15 pm
I loved the shovel pass. I loved how Terrell knew what was coming, but did not give away any indication what the play was. It was for sure the right decision to go for it. There is 4 minutes left and if you punt you may not see the ball back. It was great block from Alifua to spring him as well. I love how Coach A does not even think twice about these 4th down calls, he just lines up and goes for them. With GA or Wells as the coach I would guess they would have punted in that situation and we likely lose the game.

No, we would have burned a timeout first or had a false start.

tinplater · Post by **tinplater** » September 20th, 2021, 12:54 pm

I personally would have leaned towards calling a fake punt in that situation but have no idea how skilled our punter might be in pulling that off. Remember vividly USU's loss to Utah weekend of Kennedy Assassination when Utah pulled off a first down with a 4th quarter fake punt with a 4th and maybe 15 to go. I think everyone expected a fake, but even so the punter rambled off 15 yards and ultimately won the game.
Still curious as to what is the expected success of a shovel pass? There must be some data on that.

cdaAg · Post by **cdaAg** » September 20th, 2021, 1:04 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 12:15 pm
I loved the shovel pass. I loved how Terrell knew what was coming, but did not give away any indication what the play was. It was for sure the right decision to go for it. There is 4 minutes left and if you punt you may not see the ball back. It was great block from Alifua to spring him as well. I love how Coach A does not even think twice about these 4th down calls, he just lines up and goes for them. With GA or Wells as the coach I would guess they would have punted in that situation and we likely lose the game.

In ascending order, moving up from the late 80's.

Chuck Shelton runs a rare pass play designed for two yards that gets two yards, leading to the turnover on downs.
Weatherbie runs a triple flea-flicker and climbs the light pole while the play is going.
John L runs off-tackle on a play that nets 2.5 yards.
Arslanian never gets to 4th and 3 because he punted on 3rd and 28.
Mick runs a bubble screen but nobody blocks and it gets blown up.
Guy takes a timeout, lines up in punt formation, and then punts on 4th and 8 after the delay of game penalty out of the timeout.
GA1 runs a halfback pass that gets called back because of a holding penalty. Holds himself accountable after the game.
Wells punts and then complains that the defense didn't get a stop on the ensuing touchdown drive that clinched the game for AF.
GA2 runs whatever he thinks Whittingham would have run because half the players on the field were those who didn't cut it at the ewe. He forgot to include it in the playbook prior to the season and hadn't run many sets in practice so the players aren't sure what they're trying to execute.
Coach A makes a big decision quickly, as well as an intelligent play call that gets executed well because the players know what they're doing and have confidence they can make it work.

Coloraggie · Post by **Coloraggie** » September 20th, 2021, 1:45 pm

cdaAg wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 1:04 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 20th, 2021, 12:15 pm
I loved the shovel pass. I loved how Terrell knew what was coming, but did not give away any indication what the play was. It was for sure the right decision to go for it. There is 4 minutes left and if you punt you may not see the ball back. It was great block from Alifua to spring him as well. I love how Coach A does not even think twice about these 4th down calls, he just lines up and goes for them. With GA or Wells as the coach I would guess they would have punted in that situation and we likely lose the game.
In ascending order, moving up from the late 80's.

Chuck Shelton runs a rare pass play designed for two yards that gets two yards, leading to the turnover on downs.
Weatherbie runs a triple flea-flicker and climbs the light pole while the play is going.
John L runs off-tackle on a play that nets 2.5 yards.
Arslanian never gets to 4th and 3 because he punted on 3rd and 28.
Mick runs a bubble screen but nobody blocks and it gets blown up.
Guy takes a timeout, lines up in punt formation, and then punts on 4th and 8 after the delay of game penalty out of the timeout.
GA1 runs a halfback pass that gets called back because of a holding penalty. Holds himself accountable after the game.
Wells punts and then complains that the defense didn't get a stop on the ensuing touchdown drive that clinched the game for AF.
GA2 runs whatever he thinks Whittingham would have run because half the players on the field were those who didn't cut it at the ewe. He forgot to include it in the playbook prior to the season and hadn't run many sets in practice so the players aren't sure what they're trying to execute.
Coach A makes a big decision quickly, as well as an intelligent play call that gets executed well because the players know what they're doing and have confidence they can make it work.

Love it CDA! And so right about Guy. I remember going to the game in Wyoming and calling a timeout for the extra point and then getting a delay of game out of the timeout, on the extra point!

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