Tatum Out for A while

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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by AGGIEinIOWA » September 21st, 2021, 11:50 am

Isn't Ajani Carter playing as backup to Gilliam in the stryker position? Just wondering if he'd be more valuable at safety if Tatum is out and Bond is banged up.
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by aggies22 » September 21st, 2021, 12:11 pm

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 11:50 am
Isn't Ajani Carter playing as backup to Gilliam in the stryker position? Just wondering if he'd be more valuable at safety if Tatum is out and Bond is banged up.
AJ Carter is playing stryker now. BUT if they find themselves in a pinch I think AJ could make a pretty seamless move back to safety.
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by hickaggie » September 21st, 2021, 1:00 pm

aggies22 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 11:32 am
BLUERUFiO wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 10:00 am
What’s concerning is Banda was the safety coach at Miami and that’s always been his group. Disappointing they weren’t coached up better during the summer. HOWEVER, I love what Banda brings as a recruiter and his aggressive D can be fun.
You can coach a kid up all you want BUT if they can't execute the game plan once they hit the field, that's on the kid. We had two guys really struggle Saturday night which is why you found Monte McGary on the field on the last drive.
The question I have is what game plan did they have. Maybe I am missing something but the only way I know of putting a game plan together is against the triple option is to have attack assignments every play. For the run first LBs that shouldn't be hard. Read run hit gap or assignment. Rinse repeat.

Its harder for the secondary because they can't attack until there reasonably sure of run but they have to be coached to make certain reads and go. Sitting back and reading means they get blocked out of pitch or catch it 10 yards down the field.

I didn't see to much of the first half but it looked like the pitch man was killing us despite the secondary ignoring the recievers.

What I saw in the 2nd half was appalling to me. AFA went almost exclusively with the counter dive and our ILBs were following the decoy wingback/pitch man out of the play (Metzenheimer on the ref block play) or standing flat footed to try and catch the RB with a 10 yard head of steam. In fact if you watch certain plays the whole damn defense was floating with the wing decoy. It was a hot mess. How hard is to tell a kid to hit your gap or key and not worry about the rest of it. If those ILBs are in their gaps as soon as the FB moves toward them the safeties aren't faced with trying to tackle a 240 back with 15 yards of steam and can worry about their pass and option reads if the counter is faked. If the QB runs play action so be, it he's in the backfield disrupting or hitting the FB to keep him from becoming a receiver.

Instead the LBs were running away from the play or just standing there waiting to get run over.

I could honestly not understand what the defensive philosophy was supposed to be that 2nd half.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by hickaggie » September 21st, 2021, 1:21 pm

hickaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 1:00 pm
aggies22 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 11:32 am
BLUERUFiO wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 10:00 am
What’s concerning is Banda was the safety coach at Miami and that’s always been his group. Disappointing they weren’t coached up better during the summer. HOWEVER, I love what Banda brings as a recruiter and his aggressive D can be fun.
You can coach a kid up all you want BUT if they can't execute the game plan once they hit the field, that's on the kid. We had two guys really struggle Saturday night which is why you found Monte McGary on the field on the last drive.
The question I have is what game plan did they have. Maybe I am missing something but the only way I know of putting a game plan together is against the triple option is to have attack assignments every play. For the run first LBs that shouldn't be hard. Read run hit gap or assignment. Rinse repeat.

Its harder for the secondary because they can't attack until there reasonably sure of run but they have to be coached to make certain reads and go. Sitting back and reading means they get blocked out of pitch or catch it 10 yards down the field.

I didn't see to much of the first half but it looked like the pitch man was killing us despite the secondary ignoring the recievers.

What I saw in the 2nd half was appalling to me. AFA went almost exclusively with the counter dive and our ILBs were following the decoy wingback/pitch man out of the play (Metzenheimer on the ref block play) or standing flat footed to try and catch the RB with a 10 yard head of steam. In fact if you watch certain plays the whole damn defense was floating with the wing decoy. It was a hot mess. How hard is to tell a kid to hit your gap or key and not worry about the rest of it. If those ILBs are in their gaps as soon as the FB moves toward them the safeties aren't faced with trying to tackle a 240 back with 15 yards of steam and can worry about their pass and option reads if the counter is faked. If the QB runs play action so be, it he's in the backfield disrupting or hitting the FB to keep him from becoming a receiver.

Instead the LBs were running away from the play or just standing there waiting to get run over.

I could honestly not understand what the defensive philosophy was supposed to be that 2nd half.
I should clarify a bit. AFA had spread out the right (to the defense) wingback to pull out our ILB on the Metzenheimer screw up Bond/Ref block TD with no TE. Metz was the only inside backer and should have been in that hole as soon as the FB moved toward him on the counter. Instead he followed the decoy motion of the other wingback to the right and was completely out of play by the time the hole was hit leaving no MLB. After that they took out Metz and kept Rice and Gilliam inside. They kept running the counter to the same hole on Gilliams side and he hardly moved from his spot until trying to catch the FB. Of course Rice's first key is the QB since the FB went to the other side and so any help he could give was chasing from behind. Rice was better when they tried to run to his side but no backer was hitting the FB hole hard.
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by newhouse9 » September 21st, 2021, 1:36 pm

On more than one play, when he didn't follow the decoy, Metz also got caught waiting to take on the blocker instead of meeting the blocker in the dive gap. Waiting makes it an easy read for that fullback and he was in the secondary or gone.
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by NVAggie » September 21st, 2021, 1:42 pm

Just typical poor assignment football by our defense. It is something they will need to figure out. I'm not a big Metz fan either. He is slow and indiscipline.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by AggieFBObsession » September 21st, 2021, 1:53 pm

hickaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 1:00 pm
I could honestly not understand what the defensive philosophy was supposed to be that 2nd half.
I'm with you. Again, it was if cats were being herded. And not just the 2nd half.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by aggies22 » September 21st, 2021, 4:03 pm

NVAggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 1:42 pm
Just typical poor assignment football by our defense. It is something they will need to figure out. I'm not a big Metz fan either. He is slow and indiscipline.
Meitzenheimer really shouldn't see the field as often as he does.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Elkaggie » September 21st, 2021, 4:12 pm

aggies22 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 4:03 pm
NVAggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 1:42 pm
Just typical poor assignment football by our defense. It is something they will need to figure out. I'm not a big Metz fan either. He is slow and indiscipline.
Meitzenheimer really shouldn't see the field as often as he does.
Thank you. He’s built like a DE and can’t cover the field or read the play worth a dang. He should have way more impact and tackles than he’s had. Very underwhelming. Do we really not have anyone else?



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Aglicious » September 21st, 2021, 4:32 pm

The best play I saw all night from the DB's was from backup Michael Anyanwu at the end of the game when we finally saw a CB beat his block and come up to cut the runner down that was trying to get to the edge after the pitch. It took the entire game to finally witness but that type of stop from our DB's didn't happen a single time with our starters in.

Before the season started, I voiced my displeasure of not seeing many of the transfers earn starting spots. Last year's D was one of the worst I have ever witnessed (and that is saying something considering the early 2000's) so to see many of the same guys beat out these P5 transfers was disheartening. I had already penciled in Reynolds and Mayberry as starters with hopes that McGary would see lots of time too. Maybe we'll see some more opportunities open up for these guys in the coming weeks. Hopefully they are up to the task because we need help back there. Last year, Tatum was the guy I felt should have gotten more PT - even if just to get some size back there. This year? Not sure yet but McGary seems to be the one making plays on special teams and finds himself around the ball when he gets on the field.
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Aglicious » September 21st, 2021, 4:38 pm

aggies22 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 4:03 pm
NVAggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 1:42 pm
Just typical poor assignment football by our defense. It is something they will need to figure out. I'm not a big Metz fan either. He is slow and indiscipline.
Meitzenheimer really shouldn't see the field as often as he does.
Ha! were you in chat? I felt like this was the rallying cry for every defensive possession where he was in. If we can so easily see it as fans I have to believe it is more than obvious to the coaching staff.

What's crazy is that he was actually pretty quick as a freshman and I was excited for his time to come as he sat out behind some talented LB's back then but when his time came it seemed like he had bulked up so much that he lost many of the attributes that had me excited about him. I felt like Kina Maile or someone else would have been a better option in that AFA game. His pursuit is bad, his angles are worse, and he is essentially a non-factor on the field from the LB position.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by AggieFBObsession » September 21st, 2021, 4:42 pm

My question for Aggie fans is this about Metz. If he doesn't play at that LB spot, who does? Some would say that it couldn't be worse, but I'm not so sure.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Elkaggie » September 21st, 2021, 5:50 pm

I am also concerned by the lack of passes defended/broken up and int’s from our secondary and DB’s. I think our only two int’s that I can remember came from Rice.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by hickaggie » September 21st, 2021, 5:55 pm

Why is AJV in the doghouse. At least he's aggressive. But when metz messed up Gilliam moved inside.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by hickaggie » September 21st, 2021, 5:58 pm

Elkaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 5:50 pm
I am also concerned by the lack of passes defended/broken up and int’s from our secondary and DB’s. I think our only two int’s that I can remember came from Rice.
You have to be within 5 yards of the receiver before pass breakups become a possibility.
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by FloridaAggie13 » September 21st, 2021, 6:01 pm

Ahbye wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 11:27 pm
Agzrule wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 8:54 pm
aggies22 wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 8:51 pm
newhouse9 wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 3:58 pm
Reynolds makes me nervous....he seems out of position a lot
Bond should make you more nervous.
Please explain
AFA had a field day passing because of discipline in the back end. Every time they wanted to throw the ball back there they could because Bond allowed himself to be sucked in by play action.
This ^^

You pointed this out on chat during the game but no one wanted to listen. Then everyone got sidetracked with the usual bickering and I started talking about my intramural flag football days.

But yeah, you were on this all night Saturday. Kudos!
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by FloridaAggie13 » September 21st, 2021, 6:02 pm

hickaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 5:58 pm
Elkaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 5:50 pm
I am also concerned by the lack of passes defended/broken up and int’s from our secondary and DB’s. I think our only two int’s that I can remember came from Rice.
You have to be within 5 yards of the receiver before pass breakups become a possibility.
Rewind a little bit further and you have to be on the correct side of the hashmarks in order to get within 5 yards of the receiver.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Yossarian » September 21st, 2021, 6:25 pm

Elkaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 5:50 pm
I am also concerned by the lack of passes defended/broken up and int’s from our secondary and DB’s. I think our only two int’s that I can remember came from Rice.
Not to pick nits, but Rice has three INT's.
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Elkaggie » September 21st, 2021, 8:50 pm

hickaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 5:58 pm
Elkaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 5:50 pm
I am also concerned by the lack of passes defended/broken up and int’s from our secondary and DB’s. I think our only two int’s that I can remember came from Rice.
You have to be within 5 yards of the receiver before pass breakups become a possibility.
Haha. Good point!



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Elkaggie » September 21st, 2021, 8:53 pm

Why do I feel we are not improving and in fact digressing on defense?!



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by aggies22 » September 21st, 2021, 9:11 pm

Aglicious wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 4:38 pm
aggies22 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 4:03 pm
NVAggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 1:42 pm
Just typical poor assignment football by our defense. It is something they will need to figure out. I'm not a big Metz fan either. He is slow and indiscipline.
Meitzenheimer really shouldn't see the field as often as he does.
Ha! were you in chat? I felt like this was the rallying cry for every defensive possession where he was in. If we can so easily see it as fans I have to believe it is more than obvious to the coaching staff.

What's crazy is that he was actually pretty quick as a freshman and I was excited for his time to come as he sat out behind some talented LB's back then but when his time came it seemed like he had bulked up so much that he lost many of the attributes that had me excited about him. I felt like Kina Maile or someone else would have been a better option in that AFA game. His pursuit is bad, his angles are worse, and he is essentially a non-factor on the field from the LB position.
I wasn't in chat but I witnessed it first hand!



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Aggie84025 » September 21st, 2021, 9:51 pm

I am certainly not an X's and O's guru, the question for people more in tune with schemes is can this defense be fixed or do we lack the personnel? We won't win in shoot outs every week.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by hickaggie » September 21st, 2021, 10:17 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 9:51 pm
I am certainly not an X's and O's guru, the question for people more in tune with schemes is can this defense be fixed or do we lack the personnel? We won't win in shoot outs every week.
I think to some extent we just need to throw AFA out the window for now. The Aggies held WSU to a decent point total and only gave up 3 after the first quarter with North Dakota. I do believe eye discipline, injuries, and misdirection are going to continue to be issues but I think we have a good D line and some playmakers at LB and safety. The next 2 weeks will be telling. I could be up in the night but I think Banda's aggression could be a good thing against Boise if the reports of their O line chaos and average rushing game are anywhere close to accurate.

I think this team is not very disciplined, struggles with the safeties in the throw game, and is quite more tha a bit below average in cover skills but they have playmakers who can make up for that and a better LB group than showed at AFA and an agressive D line. Similar to 2018 in some respects. They just have to start creating the TOs that team did.

Just glad no one else on the schedule runs the triple..lol
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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Intermeddler » September 21st, 2021, 10:26 pm

Every complaint in this thread about eye discipline, misdirection, and assignments are what we Miami fans have been complaining about with this scheme for years.

The theme is chaos and disruption of the offense. It’s great when it works but leaves you very vulnerable to what we saw against AF.

Don’t expect it to get better. Hope we play teams less capable of exploiting it.



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Bybs25 » September 21st, 2021, 11:13 pm

When it comes to the secondary there a couple of things that are player and some that are scheme. Not breaking on balls and contesting passing is player. This might be ability or confidence. Your scheme might say you play 7 yds off but you don't keep the 7 yd cushion when the wr is just running a curl or a slant. Corners have to be able to recognize routes and react. Right now they are not doing that. Recognizing run and coming up and attack the block and getting off the block once again player ability, strength and confidence. So you start at 7 yds well when playing off your eyes should be inside reading the guard you see run to your side you move forward keep outside leverage attack the wr push them back and shed the block.

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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by aggies22 » September 22nd, 2021, 10:31 am

Bybs25 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 11:13 pm
When it comes to the secondary there a couple of things that are player and some that are scheme. Not breaking on balls and contesting passing is player. This might be ability or confidence. Your scheme might say you play 7 yds off but you don't keep the 7 yd cushion when the wr is just running a curl or a slant. Corners have to be able to recognize routes and react. Right now they are not doing that. Recognizing run and coming up and attack the block and getting off the block once again player ability, strength and confidence. So you start at 7 yds well when playing off your eyes should be inside reading the guard you see run to your side you move forward keep outside leverage attack the wr push them back and shed the block.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
Text book explanation. Well done my Aggie brother!



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Re: Tatum Out for A while

Post by Aggs&Jazz12 » September 22nd, 2021, 11:17 am

hickaggie wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 10:17 pm
Aggie84025 wrote:
September 21st, 2021, 9:51 pm
I am certainly not an X's and O's guru, the question for people more in tune with schemes is can this defense be fixed or do we lack the personnel? We won't win in shoot outs every week.
I think to some extent we just need to throw AFA out the window for now. The Aggies held WSU to a decent point total and only gave up 3 after the first quarter with North Dakota. I do believe eye discipline, injuries, and misdirection are going to continue to be issues but I think we have a good D line and some playmakers at LB and safety. The next 2 weeks will be telling. I could be up in the night but I think Banda's aggression could be a good thing against Boise if the reports of their O line chaos and average rushing game are anywhere close to accurate.

I think this team is not very disciplined, struggles with the safeties in the throw game, and is quite more tha a bit below average in cover skills but they have playmakers who can make up for that and a better LB group than showed at AFA and an agressive D line. Similar to 2018 in some respects. They just have to start creating the TOs that team did.

Just glad no one else on the schedule runs the triple..lol
Agreed. I think that there are real concerns about lack of eye discipline, among other things. But AFA is such a unique crapshoot of a game when it comes to judging such player attributes. One of AFA’s biggest plays where they had a man running free was because Reynold’s took FOREVER to get a pass/run read. Doesn’t mean that he’s bad at getting that read, it means that between the emphasis on being the triple option alley support and AFA’s bizarre line movements, he wasn’t able to do it well that game. With that in mind, I wouldn’t be opposed to simplifying the back end just a little bit so that we can at least have a defender within 5 yards of each receiver, because we’ve just had way too many guys running free. I am surprisingly confident in our front 7 being able to step up and take an extra portion of the load.



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