Fake punt

aggie4L · Post by **aggie4L** » September 25th, 2021, 2:06 pm

I have been a big fan of the aggressive calling on fourth down this year, but wtf was that fake punt on 4th and long at our 20. That's a high risk low reward call. The game really felt over after that.

splintorb · Post by **splintorb** » September 25th, 2021, 2:09 pm

I don’t believe this was a fake punt. I believe that it was a blown block, we saw it happen again on the very next punt/series, and Kotsanlee believed he was going to be blocked and decided to keep it was a better outcome, which I think I agree with him.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » September 25th, 2021, 2:28 pm

It was a fake, coach A brought it up. He said it was poorly executed. It is a terrible call. Love aggressiveness but that was not the time.

Aggie19 · Post by **Aggie19** » September 25th, 2021, 2:41 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:06 pm
I have been a big fan of the aggressive calling on fourth down this year, but wtf was that fake punt on 4th and long at our 20. That's a high risk low reward call. The game really felt over after that.

Crazy, it was so early in the 2nd half, but I agree, felt over after that, which I think mostly had to do with how poorly we executed in every phase... felt insurmountable.

aggie4L · Post by **aggie4L** » September 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:41 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:06 pm
I have been a big fan of the aggressive calling on fourth down this year, but wtf was that fake punt on 4th and long at our 20. That's a high risk low reward call. The game really felt over after that.
Crazy, it was so early in the 2nd half, but I agree, felt over after that, which I think mostly had to do with how poorly we executed in every phase... felt insurmountable.

We have been down 10 or more every game. But they get a super short field to push it to 17. 3 scores is a big lead.

Aggie19 · Post by **Aggie19** » September 25th, 2021, 2:52 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:41 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:06 pm
I have been a big fan of the aggressive calling on fourth down this year, but wtf was that fake punt on 4th and long at our 20. That's a high risk low reward call. The game really felt over after that.
Crazy, it was so early in the 2nd half, but I agree, felt over after that, which I think mostly had to do with how poorly we executed in every phase... felt insurmountable.
We have been down 10 or more every game. But they get a super short field to push it to 17. 3 scores is a big lead.

I saw a crazy stat once, wish I could remember or find it, but when a team goes down 17, there's like an 85% chance or something crazy like that, that they lose the game no matter at what point that 17 point spread happens. I've been keeping an eye on it for a few years, it's the magic number. 3 scores is almost impossible. It's a timing thing and how many chances you get to score, etc, - it's a numbers game that you end up losing more times than not.

splintorb · Post by **splintorb** » September 25th, 2021, 2:56 pm

I refuse to believe this was an actual fake punt call. I think the coach is covering for a player or a coach or something. Maybe so frustrated about the game he isn’t recalling it correctly. There is no way in hell you have a fake punt call, that is a run, to the short side of the field with no block on the edge guy on that side…there is no way.

dogie · Post by **dogie** » September 25th, 2021, 2:56 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:28 pm
It was a fake, coach A brought it up. He said it was poorly executed. It is a terrible call. Love aggressiveness but that was not the time.

Before the snap, I asked my neighbor at the game why the punter was only 12 yards from the line of scrimmage. I could tell something strange was about to happen.

On the next punt, he was the typical 15 yards back. If you’re a coach about to run a trick play, you need to understand the principle of Meinertzhagen's Haversack. If I, as a casual fan, could tell it wasn’t an ordinary punt formation, I’m sure the Boise State coaches were tipped off.

splintorb · Post by **splintorb** » September 25th, 2021, 2:58 pm

dogie wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:56 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:28 pm
It was a fake, coach A brought it up. He said it was poorly executed. It is a terrible call. Love aggressiveness but that was not the time.
Before the snap, I asked my neighbor at the game why the punter was only 12 yards from the line of scrimmage. I could tell something strange was about to happen.

On the next punt, he was the typical 15 yards back. If you’re a coach about to run a trick play, you need to understand the principle of Meinertzhagen's Haversack. If I, as a casual fan, could tell it wasn’t an ordinary punt formation, I’m sure the Boise State coaches were tipped off.

This is what makes me believe it was a blown block. The very next punt, the same edge player but on the other side of the field made it through without a single blocker. They found a weakness in our formation and took advantage. Kotsanlee had to make a ridiculous play and get off a ridiculous punt the very next outing…there is no way this was on purpose.

dogie · Post by **dogie** » September 25th, 2021, 2:58 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:52 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:41 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:06 pm
I have been a big fan of the aggressive calling on fourth down this year, but wtf was that fake punt on 4th and long at our 20. That's a high risk low reward call. The game really felt over after that.
Crazy, it was so early in the 2nd half, but I agree, felt over after that, which I think mostly had to do with how poorly we executed in every phase... felt insurmountable.
We have been down 10 or more every game. But they get a super short field to push it to 17. 3 scores is a big lead.
I saw a crazy stat once, wish I could remember or find it, but when a team goes down 17, there's like an 85% chance or something crazy like that, that they win the game no matter at what point that 17 point spread happens. I've been keeping an eye on it for a few years, it's the magic number. 3 scores is almost impossible. It's a timing thing and how many chances you get to score, etc, - it's a numbers game that you end up losing more times than not.

I also consider a 17-point lead to be the magic number in college basketball.

Aggie19 · Post by **Aggie19** » September 25th, 2021, 3:00 pm

splintorb wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:56 pm
I refuse to believe this was an actual fake punt call. I think the coach is covering for a player or a coach or something. Maybe so frustrated about the game he isn’t recalling it correctly. There is no way in hell you have a fake punt call, that is a run, to the short side of the field with no block on the edge guy on that side…there is no way.

Family watching on TV said fake punt the whole way. I'll have to trust them, no way I'm downloading the video on this game to watch it.

AussieAggieDad · Post by **AussieAggieDad** » September 25th, 2021, 3:06 pm

As promised I'm here for my lumps!

At the time I thought the fake punt was a very odd call, given the field position. There wasn't enough room to run. Add the blown coverage and the play was doomed.

Stephen messaged me to say he made the wrong read - but I'm still not sure. We'll chat later and I'll get more detail.

As I said last week punters are like goalkeepers in soccer - make a mistake and the oppo will score.

Btw, the 10am start Aggie time was a 2am start for me. Went to bed after the game but couldn't sleep due to the game going round and round in my scone. Just sayin.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » September 25th, 2021, 3:13 pm

I thought Kotsanlee was trying to the same thing with the fake punt as the next punt. I thought they were playing Boise State s aggressivness to block the point against them. Did you see the guy fly right by on the next punt? Kotsanlee moved up like he was going to take off and then kicked it near the line of scrimmage. I thought they were trying to bait Boise into a roughing the punter call.

AussieAggieDad · Post by **AussieAggieDad** » September 25th, 2021, 3:20 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 3:13 pm
I thought Kotsanlee was trying to the same thing with the fake punt as the next punt. I thought they were playing Boise State s aggressivness to block the point against them. Did you see the guy fly right by on the next punt? Kotsanlee moved up like he was going to take off and then kicked it near the line of scrimmage. I thought they were trying to bait Boise into a roughing the punter call.

After the botched fake punt, the next punt was also in danger of being blocked because of a break in our protection.

The side step by Stephen whilst showing the ball to the defender then stepping around him is a common play in Aussie Rules. We call it "showing some candy" and it creates time and space. Usually a reflex action for when the defender gets too close. For right footers they'll only do this when they roll out to the right as its a natural action for them.

AussieAggieDad · Post by **AussieAggieDad** » September 25th, 2021, 4:07 pm

Just spoke with Stephen and here's his view:

He set up for a fake punt, standing 12 yards from LoS rather than his usual 15.
Boisie Coach Collins (remember him) recognised the change and called "safety" to his team.
Aggies should have reset and punted normally but they persisted with the fake.
Stephen stuffed up the play. He was supposed to run through the gap created by our guy on the edge and our next blocker on the inside. The edge block was good but the inside block was not.
Stephen ran to the outside rather than the gap and the play was a bust.

ViAggie · Post by **ViAggie** » September 25th, 2021, 4:13 pm

Life goes on

bpd · Post by **bpd** » September 25th, 2021, 5:45 pm

The fake punt was one of the worst coaching decisions I have seen at Utah St. Worse then punting on third down.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » September 25th, 2021, 5:50 pm

AussieAggieDad wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 4:07 pm
Just spoke with Stephen and here's his view:

He set up for a fake punt, standing 12 yards from LoS rather than his usual 15.
Boisie Coach Collins (remember him) recognised the change and called "safety" to his team.
Aggies should have reset and punted normally but they persisted with the fake.
Stephen stuffed up the play. He was supposed to run through the gap created by our guy on the edge and our next blocker on the inside. The edge block was good but the inside block was not.
Stephen ran to the outside rather than the gap and the play was a bust.

Thank you for the explanation. Stephen had some really good punts today.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » September 25th, 2021, 5:52 pm

bpd wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 5:45 pm
The fake punt was one of the worst coaching decisions I have seen at Utah St. Worse then punting on third down.

THe only fake punt i think that I have seen is worse is when Sitake ran a fake punt on his own 3 yard line and it was like 4th and 16. Ironically it was against Boise as well.

slcagg · Post by **slcagg** » September 25th, 2021, 5:52 pm

bpd wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 5:45 pm
The fake punt was one of the worst coaching decisions I have seen at Utah St. Worse then punting on third down.

Remember when BYU did a fake punt a few years ago on the 3 yard line. Who were they playing? Boise state

Chatman · Post by **Chatman** » September 25th, 2021, 6:14 pm

Under no circumstance is a fake punt the right call in that situation, or even having the option for a kicker to make a read for a fake punt. The risk was too high, in your own territory at that point in the game, only down 10 points to begin the half. Even if they make a first down there I’m concerned about the judgment of the coaching staff. We handed them the touchdown that put the game out of reach. A desperation call when we didn’t need it and our defense was playing well enough.

If we wanted to be aggressive maybe going for it on fourth down on the 3 instead of kicking a field goal would have been a good risk to take.

First red flag on this coach. I felt the entire game we had some really bad play calls and really bad coaching decisions.

I’m willing to give him a mulligan considering we are 3-1.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 25th, 2021, 6:19 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:14 pm
Under no circumstance is a fake punt the right call in that situation, or even having the option for a kicker to make a read for a fake punt. The risk was too high, in your own territory at that point in the game, only down 10 points to begin the half. Even if they make a first down there I’m concerned about the judgment of the coaching staff. We handed them the touchdown that put the game out of reach. A desperation call when we didn’t need it and our defense was playing well enough.

If we wanted to be aggressive maybe going for it on fourth down on the 3 instead of kicking a field goal would have been a good risk to take.

First red flag on this coach. I felt the entire game we had some really bad play calls and really bad coaching decisions.

I’m willing to give him a mulligan considering we are 3-1.

I disagree.

A fake punt works best when it is in a high risk situation because the opposition isn't expecting it in a high risk situation. I recall UF running a fake punt from deep in their own territory in the SEC Championship game under Urban Meyer. They won the game and the National Championship that year.

If you read the explanation from Stephen's dad you see that Boise St. coach saw the formation and called "safety" to his team so they would defend against a fake. Thus, the problem is that we didn't adjust after seeing Boise adjust.

The reason I think it was a bad call in that situation is because our D' was stopping them; otherwise, I have no problem with a fake punt in our own territory.

Chatman · Post by **Chatman** » September 25th, 2021, 6:21 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:19 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:14 pm
Under no circumstance is a fake punt the right call in that situation, or even having the option for a kicker to make a read for a fake punt. The risk was too high, in your own territory at that point in the game, only down 10 points to begin the half. Even if they make a first down there I’m concerned about the judgment of the coaching staff. We handed them the touchdown that put the game out of reach. A desperation call when we didn’t need it and our defense was playing well enough.

If we wanted to be aggressive maybe going for it on fourth down on the 3 instead of kicking a field goal would have been a good risk to take.

First red flag on this coach. I felt the entire game we had some really bad play calls and really bad coaching decisions.

I’m willing to give him a mulligan considering we are 3-1.
I disagree.

A fake punt works best when it is in a high risk situation because the opposition isn't expecting it in a high risk situation. I recall UF running a fake punt from deep in their own territory in the SEC Championship game under Urban Meyer. They won the game and the National Championship that year.

If you read the explanation from Stephen's dad you see that Boise St. coach saw the formation and called "safety" to his team so they would defend against a fake. Thus, the problem is that we didn't adjust after seeing Boise adjust.

We will have to agree to disagree. No reason for the risk there. The air went out of the stadium and we basically handed them a 3 score lead and the game way too soon.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 25th, 2021, 6:35 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:21 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:19 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:14 pm
Under no circumstance is a fake punt the right call in that situation, or even having the option for a kicker to make a read for a fake punt. The risk was too high, in your own territory at that point in the game, only down 10 points to begin the half. Even if they make a first down there I’m concerned about the judgment of the coaching staff. We handed them the touchdown that put the game out of reach. A desperation call when we didn’t need it and our defense was playing well enough.

If we wanted to be aggressive maybe going for it on fourth down on the 3 instead of kicking a field goal would have been a good risk to take.

First red flag on this coach. I felt the entire game we had some really bad play calls and really bad coaching decisions.

I’m willing to give him a mulligan considering we are 3-1.
I disagree.

A fake punt works best when it is in a high risk situation because the opposition isn't expecting it in a high risk situation. I recall UF running a fake punt from deep in their own territory in the SEC Championship game under Urban Meyer. They won the game and the National Championship that year.

If you read the explanation from Stephen's dad you see that Boise St. coach saw the formation and called "safety" to his team so they would defend against a fake. Thus, the problem is that we didn't adjust after seeing Boise adjust.
We will have to agree to disagree. No reason for the risk there. The air went out of the stadium and we basically handed them a 3 score lead and the game way too soon.

No, I think we agree there. As I said, while I have no problem with the risk of a fake punt in our territory, I don't think it was a good call for that situation because neither team had any momentum and our D' was playing very well.

coolag · Post by **coolag** » September 25th, 2021, 6:36 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:21 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:19 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:14 pm
Under no circumstance is a fake punt the right call in that situation, or even having the option for a kicker to make a read for a fake punt. The risk was too high, in your own territory at that point in the game, only down 10 points to begin the half. Even if they make a first down there I’m concerned about the judgment of the coaching staff. We handed them the touchdown that put the game out of reach. A desperation call when we didn’t need it and our defense was playing well enough.

If we wanted to be aggressive maybe going for it on fourth down on the 3 instead of kicking a field goal would have been a good risk to take.

First red flag on this coach. I felt the entire game we had some really bad play calls and really bad coaching decisions.

I’m willing to give him a mulligan considering we are 3-1.
I disagree.

A fake punt works best when it is in a high risk situation because the opposition isn't expecting it in a high risk situation. I recall UF running a fake punt from deep in their own territory in the SEC Championship game under Urban Meyer. They won the game and the National Championship that year.

If you read the explanation from Stephen's dad you see that Boise St. coach saw the formation and called "safety" to his team so they would defend against a fake. Thus, the problem is that we didn't adjust after seeing Boise adjust.
We will have to agree to disagree. No reason for the risk there. The air went out of the stadium and we basically handed them a 3 score lead and the game way too soon.

It was stupid and that's that.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » September 25th, 2021, 6:50 pm

coolag wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:36 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:21 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:19 pm

Chatman wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 6:14 pm
Under no circumstance is a fake punt the right call in that situation, or even having the option for a kicker to make a read for a fake punt. The risk was too high, in your own territory at that point in the game, only down 10 points to begin the half. Even if they make a first down there I’m concerned about the judgment of the coaching staff. We handed them the touchdown that put the game out of reach. A desperation call when we didn’t need it and our defense was playing well enough.

If we wanted to be aggressive maybe going for it on fourth down on the 3 instead of kicking a field goal would have been a good risk to take.

First red flag on this coach. I felt the entire game we had some really bad play calls and really bad coaching decisions.

I’m willing to give him a mulligan considering we are 3-1.
I disagree.

A fake punt works best when it is in a high risk situation because the opposition isn't expecting it in a high risk situation. I recall UF running a fake punt from deep in their own territory in the SEC Championship game under Urban Meyer. They won the game and the National Championship that year.

If you read the explanation from Stephen's dad you see that Boise St. coach saw the formation and called "safety" to his team so they would defend against a fake. Thus, the problem is that we didn't adjust after seeing Boise adjust.
We will have to agree to disagree. No reason for the risk there. The air went out of the stadium and we basically handed them a 3 score lead and the game way too soon.
It was stupid and that's that.

Let's just hope he got it out of system and makes a better decision next time. Be interesting to see how the coaches respond since it was not a good game of play calling.

AgMac · Post by **AgMac** » September 25th, 2021, 8:09 pm

bpd wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 5:45 pm
The fake punt was one of the worst coaching decisions I have seen at Utah St. Worse then punting on third down.

This is true. There is honestly no justifying this call.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii · Post by **Aggie formerly in Hawaii** » September 25th, 2021, 8:14 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:52 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:45 pm

Aggie19 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:41 pm

aggie4L wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 2:06 pm
I have been a big fan of the aggressive calling on fourth down this year, but wtf was that fake punt on 4th and long at our 20. That's a high risk low reward call. The game really felt over after that.
Crazy, it was so early in the 2nd half, but I agree, felt over after that, which I think mostly had to do with how poorly we executed in every phase... felt insurmountable.
We have been down 10 or more every game. But they get a super short field to push it to 17. 3 scores is a big lead.
I saw a crazy stat once, wish I could remember or find it, but when a team goes down 17, there's like an 85% chance or something crazy like that, that they lose the game no matter at what point that 17 point spread happens. I've been keeping an eye on it for a few years, it's the magic number. 3 scores is almost impossible. It's a timing thing and how many chances you get to score, etc, - it's a numbers game that you end up losing more times than not.

I would imagine being down 3 scores in the second half that statistic goes up to 90-95%. It probably is about that for USU if you took all our games over the last 20 years when we were down by 17 or more. When was the last time we were down 17 in the second half and won? Nevada in 2015? I get the coaching staff feeling we needed a spark, but that was not the play call, position of the field or time of game to take that type of risk in a 10 pt game.

dogie · Post by **dogie** » September 25th, 2021, 10:37 pm

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 5:52 pm

bpd wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 5:45 pm
The fake punt was one of the worst coaching decisions I have seen at Utah St. Worse then punting on third down.
THe only fake punt i think that I have seen is worse is when Sitake ran a fake punt on his own 3 yard line and it was like 4th and 16. Ironically it was against Boise as well.

I remember Sitake defending that decision by saying, “we had it on paper.”

bull · Post by **bull** » September 25th, 2021, 11:01 pm

The circumstances for which that fake punt would’ve been appropriate is the circumstances where we would’ve gotten the first down. And then we will be claiming the coaches are geniuses. Problem many teams have when they play Boise State is they think -Awe! we’re playing Boise State so it’s time for our own razzle-dazzle. Doesn’t work. Stick to who you are.

Chatman · Post by **Chatman** » September 26th, 2021, 12:13 am

bull wrote: ↑
September 25th, 2021, 11:01 pm
The circumstances for which that fake punt would’ve been appropriate is the circumstances where we would’ve gotten the first down. And then we will be claiming the coaches are geniuses. Problem many teams have when they play Boise State is they think -Awe! we’re playing Boise State so it’s time for our own razzle-dazzle. Doesn’t work. Stick to who you are.

I’m all for razzle-dazzle. Desperation stupidity isn’t razzle dazzle. And if they would have gotten the first down it still wouldn’t have changed my opinion. I would have still questioned the coaches judgement.

aggiesdidwhat · Post by **aggiesdidwhat** » September 26th, 2021, 12:37 am

I'm not sure what you're all talking about when you say that wasn't a designed play. He had plenty of time to punt it. You could tell by how the punter reacted it was a scripted play. He's not covering for anyone. It was a (I can't express myself without swearing) call by coaches. If you watched it on TV. It was easy to see they meant to fake it.

Chatman · Post by **Chatman** » September 26th, 2021, 5:50 am

The circumstances for which that fake punt would’ve been appropriate is the circumstances where we would’ve gotten the first down. And then we will be claiming the coaches are geniuses. Problem many teams have when they play Boise State is they think -Awe! we’re playing Boise State so it’s time for our own razzle-dazzle. Doesn’t work. Stick to who you are.
[/quote]

I’m all for razzle-dazzle. Desperation stupidity isn’t razzle dazzle. And if they would have gotten the first down it still wouldn’t have changed my opinion. I would have still questioned the coaches judgement.
[/quote]

Chatman · Post by **Chatman** » September 26th, 2021, 5:50 am

I’m all for razzle-dazzle. Desperation stupidity isn’t razzle dazzle. And if they would have gotten the first down it still wouldn’t have changed my opinion. I would have still questioned the coaches judgement.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Mr. Sneelock · Post by **Mr. Sneelock** » September 26th, 2021, 8:58 am

It was stupid.

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