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I am fairly happy with the current makeup of the MWC.

Are we still in a position of risk of losing bsu or has that ship sailed and is out of the harbor? I am honestly not sure where they would go. It is not like they have the academic chops to project themselves as a serious PAC option.

Pulling in a WSU/OSU pair still seems like pretty wise move for the MWC as long as teams like this aren't constantly looking to jump at the next option that comes along.

I know there is still some trepidation over conferences getting too large and becoming a mess to manage.

I think we’ll eventually merge with OSU and WSU and take the PAC brand. No one is going anywhere currently. SDSU is probably the most attractive candidate for the Big12, but they’re full, and waiting to grab an ACC team or two. And I don’t think a watered down ACC could pull a team in San Diego. Possible a pod, like 4 teams. Maybe OSU, SDSU, maybe CSU, and, of course, the eternally sleeping “giant”, UNLV. It would be a Big12 lite type of conference and a nightmare for scheduling.

Ultimately there will only be two Power Conferences left standing, the Big10 and the SEC, and it will likely exist as a FB only structure with 32 teams in two e/w divisions with two n/s pods, just like the NFL. Boise jumping to another conference isn't likely as the left overs from the B10/SEC merger will end up sprinkled about the ACC and Big12 (and maybe the ACC, but as of now, we're the winners of the first left overs from a P5 dissolving). Fortunately or unfortunately, we're stuck with Boise/SDSU. Utah is tied to ybu in the B12 in perpetuity I think. I don't think they'll make the B10/SEC merger cut.

ViAggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 1:38 pm

Ultimately there will only be two Power Conferences left standing, the Big10 and the SEC, and it will likely exist as a FB only structure with 32 teams in two e/w divisions with two n/s pods, just like the NFL. Boise jumping to another conference isn't likely as the left overs from the B10/SEC merger will end up sprinkled about the ACC and Big12 (and maybe the ACC, but as of now, we're the winners of the first left overs from a P5 dissolving). Fortunately or unfortunately, we're stuck with Boise/SDSU. Utah is tied to ybu in the B12 in perpetuity I think. I don't think they'll make the B10/SEC merger cut.

Unless Utah runs the Big 12 and gets a few wins in the Playoffs I think you're right and they are one of the left behinds

SoJo_Aggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 2:01 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 1:38 pm

Ultimately there will only be two Power Conferences left standing, the Big10 and the SEC, and it will likely exist as a FB only structure with 32 teams in two e/w divisions with two n/s pods, just like the NFL. Boise jumping to another conference isn't likely as the left overs from the B10/SEC merger will end up sprinkled about the ACC and Big12 (and maybe the ACC, but as of now, we're the winners of the first left overs from a P5 dissolving). Fortunately or unfortunately, we're stuck with Boise/SDSU. Utah is tied to ybu in the B12 in perpetuity I think. I don't think they'll make the B10/SEC merger cut.

Unless Utah runs the Big 12 and gets a few wins in the Playoffs I think you're right and they are one of the left behinds

Like the song says, they have a long way to go, and and a short time to get there...

The risk right now is that Oregon State and Washington State are scheming to try and steal only a portion of the MWC schools, rather than do a full merger.

Unfortunately, there are a few backstabber schools in the MWC that could be interested in helping them do this---namely the California schools.

And for whatever it's worth, they seem biased against USU, Wyoming, and Air Force.

Not sure if they can do this or not, though.

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 3:48 pm

The risk right now is that Oregon State and Washington State are scheming to try and steal only a portion of the MWC schools, rather than do a full merger.

Unfortunately, there are a few backstabber schools in the MWC that could be interested in helping them do this---namely the California schools.

And for whatever it's worth, they seem biased against USU, Wyoming, and Air Force.

Not sure if they can do this or not, though.

I would guess there is not enough money. Oregon State went from paying Jonathan Smith $4.85 million a year to $2 million a year for their new coach. Wazzu just cut their coaches pay by 5-10%. https://frontofficesports.com/washingto ... -up-to-10/

Full wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 4:45 pm

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 3:48 pm

The risk right now is that Oregon State and Washington State are scheming to try and steal only a portion of the MWC schools, rather than do a full merger.

Unfortunately, there are a few backstabber schools in the MWC that could be interested in helping them do this---namely the California schools.

And for whatever it's worth, they seem biased against USU, Wyoming, and Air Force.

Not sure if they can do this or not, though.

I would guess there is not enough money. Oregon State went from paying Jonathan Smith $4.85 million a year to $2 million a year for their new coach. Wazzu just cut their coaches pay by 5-10%. https://frontofficesports.com/washingto ... -up-to-10/

1st. I don't see the PAC schools having that kind of leverage unless they want to buy out who ever they want to poach.
2nd. If they don't want to pay to buy out exit fees, then they would have to kill off the conference to do that, which means taking 10 teams. I'm guessing if it's Wazzu and OSU calling the shots, we're in over some of the others.
3rd. I don't see 1 or 2 working out. I think it's a full merger, the only one I see some worry for is Hawaii since they are not a full member and there's no reason why 14 works better than 13.

I'm guessing that we end up with a full on merger and UH gets their hand forced to be all in or all out.

Honestly, it would be nice to have UH back in Oly sports.

I liked having them as a visiting opponents, and who can argue with a few more trips to the islands.

ViAggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 1:38 pm

Ultimately there will only be two Power Conferences left standing, the Big10 and the SEC, and it will likely exist as a FB only structure with 32 teams in two e/w divisions with two n/s pods, just like the NFL. Boise jumping to another conference isn't likely as the left overs from the B10/SEC merger will end up sprinkled about the ACC and Big12 (and maybe the ACC, but as of now, we're the winners of the first left overs from a P5 dissolving). Fortunately or unfortunately, we're stuck with Boise/SDSU. Utah is tied to ybu in the B12 in perpetuity I think. I don't think they'll make the B10/SEC merger cut.

Interesting thing, that. The B1G is already at 20 schools. The SEC is at 18, and may poach FSU and a partner, either Clemson or Notre Dame. That would put the two power conferences at 40 total. I agree that the best model is probably 32 teams total, 16 in each conference. That means that the B1G and the SEC would each need to cut four current/future committed members. Some schools should be nervous, Northwester, Rutgers, and Vanderbilt, absolutely.

If we were in the environment of 10 years ago, I'd be worried that OSU and WSU would become like BSU and SDSU, perennial malcontents, forever looking to move up to the bigger better deal, and possibly harming the conference in the process. Now, I'm not so sure.

BTW as I see it, the Big10 SEC FB only conference will be able to pick and chose who they want, so current make up's wont matter. This will be a best of the best 32 team conference. Might be bigger, but I doubt it because of..... $$$ of course.

It’s an interesting exercise and entertaining banter to try and speculate who would make the cut. I figure there are about 24 or so obvious schools. The big spenders with loads of tradition and attention. That leaves probably 8-12 spots up for grabs with schools that don’t have a lot to differentiate themselves. Schools like Illinois that don’t really bring a large national following but have had plenty of time as a so called big boy. Who would you guys say gets in?

ViAggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 4:53 pm

Full wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 4:45 pm

Tetonkatest wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 3:48 pm

The risk right now is that Oregon State and Washington State are scheming to try and steal only a portion of the MWC schools, rather than do a full merger.

Unfortunately, there are a few backstabber schools in the MWC that could be interested in helping them do this---namely the California schools.

And for whatever it's worth, they seem biased against USU, Wyoming, and Air Force.

Not sure if they can do this or not, though.

I would guess there is not enough money. Oregon State went from paying Jonathan Smith $4.85 million a year to $2 million a year for their new coach. Wazzu just cut their coaches pay by 5-10%. https://frontofficesports.com/washingto ... -up-to-10/

1st. I don't see the PAC schools having that kind of leverage unless they want to buy out who ever they want to poach.
2nd. If they don't want to pay to buy out exit fees, then they would have to kill off the conference to do that, which means taking 10 teams. I'm guessing if it's Wazzu and OSU calling the shots, we're in over some of the others.
3rd. I don't see 1 or 2 working out. I think it's a full merger, the only one I see some worry for is Hawaii since they are not a full member and there's no reason why 14 works better than 13.

4 - There's very little separation between the left-over "have's and have not's" - these schools that see themselves as head and shoulders above others need a serious reality check...

In the end, reality is going to sink in.

The Pacific NW twins will soon awaken to the reality that they have been dropped off at the train station and that nobody is coming to pick them up.

I am going to assume that sooner rather than later, they are going to awaken to the that reality.

It will be a painful awakening for them with some weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth but in the end, I predict
this is the way that things will end for the Pac12. "Not with a bang, but a whimper!"

My hope is that with some remnants of the Pac12 conference and with excellent geographical ties to a lot of the Western United States, the league will become essentially the de facto Mountain Pacific Conference or Pacific Mountain Conference and hold a solid position over most of the eyeballs, population, TV, and press attention in the Western US.

I hope your scenario plays out as you envision. I suspect press attention and eyeballs are going to follow whichever conference the dominant schools belong to. The LA/Seattle/Portland press will start following the Big 10 closer. The SLC/Arizona/Denver media will start following the Big 12. The Bay Area media will continue to ignore college sports.

I agree with most of what you are saying.

Initially, the MWC is simply going to be ignored, overlooked, and to some degree downplayed.

I believe that MWC FB, if you add WSU/OOSU, is a pretty darn solid league.

My hope is that the the MWC can hold it together and keep fighting and take it to an even higher level with the potential addition of these teams.

In reality, how much difference has being a member of the PAC12 really made for these program as far as MBB is concerned?

I would argue that moving to the MWC is actually going to be a pretty healthy upgrade in actual competition and strength of schedule in MBB. Despite the previous P5 status, it is going to be a pretty substantial jump.

RogerAndersen wrote: ↑

March 13th, 2024, 11:56 am

I agree with most of what you are saying.

Initially, the MWC is simply going to be ignored, overlooked, and to some degree downplayed.

I believe that MWC FB, if you add WSU/OOSU, is a pretty darn solid league.

My hope is that the the MWC can hold it together and keep fighting and take it to an even higher level with the potential addition of these teams.

In reality, how much difference has being a member of the PAC12 really made for these program as far as MBB is concerned?

I would argue that moving to the MWC is actually going to be a pretty healthy upgrade in actual competition and strength of schedule in MBB. Despite the previous P5 status, it is going to be a pretty substantial jump.

If you base on this year alone sure, but don't be silly. The pac 12 has way more basketball traditions than the MW.

But it's not about that, the PAC doesn't exist anymore no matter what OSU and WSU want to tell you. I'm not sure how much value they would add to the MW. Sure I would take them but no special treatments.

ViAggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 2:40 pm

SoJo_Aggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 2:01 pm

ViAggie wrote: ↑

March 11th, 2024, 1:38 pm

Ultimately there will only be two Power Conferences left standing, the Big10 and the SEC, and it will likely exist as a FB only structure with 32 teams in two e/w divisions with two n/s pods, just like the NFL. Boise jumping to another conference isn't likely as the left overs from the B10/SEC merger will end up sprinkled about the ACC and Big12 (and maybe the ACC, but as of now, we're the winners of the first left overs from a P5 dissolving). Fortunately or unfortunately, we're stuck with Boise/SDSU. Utah is tied to ybu in the B12 in perpetuity I think. I don't think they'll make the B10/SEC merger cut.

Unless Utah runs the Big 12 and gets a few wins in the Playoffs I think you're right and they are one of the left behinds

Like the song says, they have a long way to go, and and a short time to get there...

Smokey and the Bandit.

If / when the Beavs and Cougs officially join, am I the only one that prefers to keep the conference name Mountain West? I like that it reflects both that the conference has a distinct regional footprint, and with the success we continue to have as a conference, the brand value continues to grow. Taking on the conference name of PAC #"X" is an illusion that would have almost zero tie to the reality of the previous entity and simply calling ourselves the PAC #"X" will result in collective eye-rolls from every power conference team. In my opinion, the brand value of the PAC #"X" is negative, and we would be taking a step backwards...my take on this...just curious what others think. I guess I'd be good with an altogether new name, but I think I would still rather build the value of the brand we already have than start from scratch.

88USUAggie wrote: ↑

March 20th, 2024, 2:33 pm

If / when the Beavs and Cougs officially join, am I the only one that prefers to keep the conference name Mountain West? I like that it reflects both that the conference has a distinct regional footprint, and with the success we continue to have as a conference, the brand value continues to grow. Taking on the conference name of PAC #"X" is an illusion that would have almost zero tie to the reality of the previous entity and simply calling ourselves the PAC #"X" will result in collective eye-rolls from every power conference team. In my opinion, the brand value of the PAC #"X" is negative, and we would be taking a step backwards...my take on this...just curious what others think. I guess I'd be good with an altogether new name, but I think I would still rather build the value of the brand we already have than start from scratch.

I've leaned towards wanting to keep MWC, too, but you've articulated reasons for that well beyond what I had considered.

When the Airport 8 left the MWC, the so-called WAC-off 8 kept WAC moniker. It still has some value, if somewhat less than before. Was that a mistake?

I tend to think not: FSU, UTEP, Vegas, et al. made a reasoned decision and established a conservative approach to rebuilding and dealing with further defections.

I'm fine either way: MWC or PAC+? work.

The Pac12 Athletic Conference is dead. Either officially, or unofficially.

The Mountain West is doing quite OK. Thank you very much!

What about giving a bit of homage to our friends and partners close to the Pacific ocean/time zone as well as those close to the Mountain areas/time zone.

Introducing "The Pacific Mountain Conference".

Descriptive. Inclusive. Flexible.

Which current or potential Conference Member(s) would feel left out with this name?

Thoughts?

The Pac12 Athletic Conference is dead. Either officially, or unofficially.

The Mountain West is doing quite OK. Thank you very much!

What about giving a bit of homage to our friends and partners close to the Pacific ocean/time zone as well as those close to the Mountain areas/time zone?

Introducing "The Pacific Mountain Conference".

Descriptive. Inclusive of a huge area of the US. Flexible for future changes.

I can think of no potential expansion candidates for which "Pacific Mountain Conference" would not work.

Which current or potential Conference Member(s) might feel left out with this name?

Thoughts?

USU78 wrote: ↑

March 20th, 2024, 4:08 pm

When the Airport 8 left the MWC, the so-called WAC-off 8 kept WAC moniker. It still has some value, if somewhat less than before. Was that a mistake?

The WAC 16 was a failed experiment but the brand itself was still pretty strong. The Pac-12 has been mocked for years of mismanagement. It's one thing to have half of your teams say "this conference is too big, we should split it in half" but to have 10 of the 12 say "this conference sucks, burn it to the ground" shows that it doesn't quite have the value or brand that it once did. If it did then they would have easily reloaded.

^^^^
For some inarticuable reason, I like Mountain Pacific over Pacific Mountain. It seems to flow better. But, at the end of the day, we need marketing and trademark experts to advise us as to what our name should be.

But when we put four teams in the Final Four, this year, maybe we'll have our answer.

Call it…Best in the West conference

With the Pac-12 gone. I wouldn't want USU in any other conference than the MT West unless the same schools take the PAC name. I like the regional rivalries. I like the peer institutions. I like we have a chance to compete year in and year our. As a fan the Big 12 has zero interest to me.

Agree.

Hang onto the the idea of "Mountain" and hang onto the idea of "Pacific or West".

Throw them in a pot and mix them all together and call it whatever you want.

Just win on the court and on the field and eventually a bigger chunk of the $$$ pie will make its way to us. In the end, that is all that really matters.

A few thoughts.

In some ways, we're in uncharted territory. There have been several instances of schools leaving one conference for another, or a conference splitting into two conferences, but I can't think of a conference merger. That's more than a technical distinction. The most obvious point is, what happens to the NCAA basketball credits of each conference? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the MWC dissolves, ceases to exist as a legal entity, and all of the members join the PAC, then the MWC basketball credits devolve to the individual schools that earned them. I would think that the optimal situation would be both conferences carrying their NCAA basketball credits into the merged conference, to be shared equally, but can that even be done? Again, I don't think there's a precedent.

As to the name, I think that's a minor detail compared to the above issue. The gadfly in me wants to see the new conference called "Broke PAC Mountain". Really, though, Mountain Pacific Conference rolls nicely off the tongue.

I don't know what their administrations are thinking, but if you read the OSU and WSU fan boards, some preferences become clear (and we all know that fan boards are always forums of well thought out argument thoroughly supported by objective evidence, and an accurate reflection of the thinking of a school's administration... ). Their first preference is to join either the Big 12 or the ACC. The predominant train of thought seems to be that after the ACC is poached by the SEC/Big 12, the ACC will rebuild with a western pod consisting of Cal, Stanford, WSU, and OSU. That might include some combination of Boise, UNLV, SDSU, and maybe CSU. They really don't seem to grasp the poison pill that Gloria Navarez has created, making poaching individual schools from the MWC prohibitively expensive. Their second choice is to rebuild the PAC by taking the top 4-6 of the MWC, and the top/westernmost schools of the AAC. Again, they just don't seem to get the financial barrier that has been created.

Ultimately, I think that there will be a merger of the PAC-2 and the MWC, maybe including Cal and Stanford if there really is a full scale meltdown of the ACC, something I think unlikely. I'm afraid that if there is a merger, OSU and WSU are going to become perennial malcontents, like BSU and SDSU, but worse. Honestly, at this point, I'd like them to just hang in limbo for at least a couple of years. Let things get bad enough that they ask to join, and are actually happy to do it.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

Nowhere
Else
To
Go

USU78 wrote: ↑

March 29th, 2024, 6:54 am

Nowhere
Else
To
Go

I'm getting excited for USU to compete in the NETG conference!

LKGates wrote: ↑

March 28th, 2024, 8:40 pm

A few thoughts.

In some ways, we're in uncharted territory. There have been several instances of schools leaving one conference for another, or a conference splitting into two conferences, but I can't think of a conference merger. That's more than a technical distinction. The most obvious point is, what happens to the NCAA basketball credits of each conference? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the MWC dissolves, ceases to exist as a legal entity, and all of the members join the PAC, then the MWC basketball credits devolve to the individual schools that earned them. I would think that the optimal situation would be both conferences carrying their NCAA basketball credits into the merged conference, to be shared equally, but can that even be done? Again, I don't think there's a precedent.

As to the name, I think that's a minor detail compared to the above issue. The gadfly in me wants to see the new conference called "Broke PAC Mountain". Really, though, Mountain Pacific Conference rolls nicely off the tongue.

I don't know what their administrations are thinking, but if you read the OSU and WSU fan boards, some preferences become clear (and we all know that fan boards are always forums of well thought out argument thoroughly supported by objective evidence, and an accurate reflection of the thinking of a school's administration... ). Their first preference is to join either the Big 12 or the ACC. The predominant train of thought seems to be that after the ACC is poached by the SEC/Big 12, the ACC will rebuild with a western pod consisting of Cal, Stanford, WSU, and OSU. That might include some combination of Boise, UNLV, SDSU, and maybe CSU. They really don't seem to grasp the poison pill that Gloria Navarez has created, making poaching individual schools from the MWC prohibitively expensive. Their second choice is to rebuild the PAC by taking the top 4-6 of the MWC, and the top/westernmost schools of the AAC. Again, they just don't seem to get the financial barrier that has been created.

Ultimately, I think that there will be a merger of the PAC-2 and the MWC, maybe including Cal and Stanford if there really is a full scale meltdown of the ACC, something I think unlikely. I'm afraid that if there is a merger, OSU and WSU are going to become perennial malcontents, like BSU and SDSU, but worse. Honestly, at this point, I'd like them to just hang in limbo for at least a couple of years. Let things get bad enough that they ask to join, and are actually happy to do it.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

What happened to tournament credits when the Big 8 and Southwest Conference merged to create the Big 12? Maybe it’s not a comparable situation since only half the SWC teams were included.

Foolonthehill wrote: ↑

March 30th, 2024, 10:46 am

LKGates wrote: ↑

March 28th, 2024, 8:40 pm

A few thoughts.

In some ways, we're in uncharted territory. There have been several instances of schools leaving one conference for another, or a conference splitting into two conferences, but I can't think of a conference merger. That's more than a technical distinction. The most obvious point is, what happens to the NCAA basketball credits of each conference? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the MWC dissolves, ceases to exist as a legal entity, and all of the members join the PAC, then the MWC basketball credits devolve to the individual schools that earned them. I would think that the optimal situation would be both conferences carrying their NCAA basketball credits into the merged conference, to be shared equally, but can that even be done? Again, I don't think there's a precedent.

As to the name, I think that's a minor detail compared to the above issue. The gadfly in me wants to see the new conference called "Broke PAC Mountain". Really, though, Mountain Pacific Conference rolls nicely off the tongue.

I don't know what their administrations are thinking, but if you read the OSU and WSU fan boards, some preferences become clear (and we all know that fan boards are always forums of well thought out argument thoroughly supported by objective evidence, and an accurate reflection of the thinking of a school's administration... ). Their first preference is to join either the Big 12 or the ACC. The predominant train of thought seems to be that after the ACC is poached by the SEC/Big 12, the ACC will rebuild with a western pod consisting of Cal, Stanford, WSU, and OSU. That might include some combination of Boise, UNLV, SDSU, and maybe CSU. They really don't seem to grasp the poison pill that Gloria Navarez has created, making poaching individual schools from the MWC prohibitively expensive. Their second choice is to rebuild the PAC by taking the top 4-6 of the MWC, and the top/westernmost schools of the AAC. Again, they just don't seem to get the financial barrier that has been created.

Ultimately, I think that there will be a merger of the PAC-2 and the MWC, maybe including Cal and Stanford if there really is a full scale meltdown of the ACC, something I think unlikely. I'm afraid that if there is a merger, OSU and WSU are going to become perennial malcontents, like BSU and SDSU, but worse. Honestly, at this point, I'd like them to just hang in limbo for at least a couple of years. Let things get bad enough that they ask to join, and are actually happy to do it.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

What happened to tournament credits when the Big 8 and Southwest Conference merged to create the Big 12? Maybe it’s not a comparable situation since only half the SWC teams were included.

They didn't merge. Four of the SWC teams - Texas, A&M, Tech and Baylor - joined the Big 8 and they changed their name. Arkansas joined the SEC. TCU, SMU and Rice joined the WAC, Houston joined CUSA.

I've enjoyed being in the MWC, but if I had to vote, I'd vote for keeping the PAC12 name alive.

ViAggie wrote: ↑

March 30th, 2024, 1:48 pm

I've enjoyed being in the MWC, but if I had to vote, I'd vote for keeping the PAC12 name alive.

The PAC 12 name is much much better. It helps us get rid of the stupid N64 logo too.