Spencer won’t be retained

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NevAggie
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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by NevAggie » April 10th, 2018, 4:01 am

bluegrouse wrote:I honestly think the necessity of having an LDS guy on staff is greatly over-estimated. As long as the staff is supportive of kids going and coming from missions and respect their religious beliefs, they will be just fine. It’s not like a kid who is Mormon won’t be able to find like-minded students and support at Utah State!!! The place is over 80% LDS these days. Go get the best basketball staff you can possibly find, teach them about the mission thing and call it a day. I think kids want to learn from and play basketball for the best coaches regardless of religious affiliation. I was a very active Mormon kid and I didn’t care if my professors were LDS or not. In fact in my department, there was only one LDS professor. The department was nationally ranked. That was WAY more important to me. I just wanted the best teachers I could get and the ones that could teach me the most. I found my religious support through classmates, friends, the LDS Institute and church attendance. I know it’s not exactly the same situation but the principle is. I just don’t think it’s essential. An added bonus perhaps if all else is equal but that’s all.

Having a black coach is a completely different situation because the university is clearly not 80% black nor is it exactly located in a city with a large 9or even small) black population.
There will be fallout from not retaining Spencer. Several players have indicated their angst in this decision already. Let's keep close watch on the situation the next few days.

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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by dogie » April 10th, 2018, 4:43 am

NevAggie wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 4:01 am
bluegrouse wrote:I honestly think the necessity of having an LDS guy on staff is greatly over-estimated. As long as the staff is supportive of kids going and coming from missions and respect their religious beliefs, they will be just fine. It’s not like a kid who is Mormon won’t be able to find like-minded students and support at Utah State!!! The place is over 80% LDS these days. Go get the best basketball staff you can possibly find, teach them about the mission thing and call it a day. I think kids want to learn from and play basketball for the best coaches regardless of religious affiliation. I was a very active Mormon kid and I didn’t care if my professors were LDS or not. In fact in my department, there was only one LDS professor. The department was nationally ranked. That was WAY more important to me. I just wanted the best teachers I could get and the ones that could teach me the most. I found my religious support through classmates, friends, the LDS Institute and church attendance. I know it’s not exactly the same situation but the principle is. I just don’t think it’s essential. An added bonus perhaps if all else is equal but that’s all.

Having a black coach is a completely different situation because the university is clearly not 80% black nor is it exactly located in a city with a large 9or even small) black population.
There will be fallout from not retaining Spencer. Several players have indicated their angst in this decision already. Let's keep close watch on the situation the next few days.

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Yes, I’m sure the process of mopping up the mess that the recent failed coaching staff left is going to lead to some bumps in the road. I hope the players can understand that the entire coaching staff was fired for good cause. If not, it will be Smith’s team in about 12 months anyway.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by bwcrc » April 10th, 2018, 6:14 am

I was fortunate enough to be acquainted with President Hall during my time as a student. Late one afternoon I was talking with him on the steps to Old Main and he asked me whether I thought USU was hostile to Mormons. My response was that it was entirely dependent on the student's experience. I said a student who grew up in Bicknell, Utah, might find it hostile to Mormons but I did not, having grown up in SoCal.

It probably would not hurt to have at least one Mormon on Coach Smith's staff, but it is far from critical or really that important. The Mormon culture permeates enough through USU and Cache Valley that it should not be an issue for any LDS player interested in playing at USU. While it would also be good to have an assistant with ties to Utah, I also do not think it is all that critical because those relationships can be made and established in short order. Our recruiting net has to be cast much wider because the talent pool in Utah is not deep enough to support teams both MWC and PAC12 levels. There is enough talent to support a decent WCC-level team, but not for teams to compete in the stronger conferences.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by 2004AG » April 10th, 2018, 6:23 am

StanfordAggie wrote:Honest question: I remember that on multiple occasions Stew said that he thought that it was essential to have at least one African-American coach on his staff for recruiting purposes. Did he make any effort to keep at least one LDS coach on his staff as well? I have to think that having at least one LDS coach on staff is going to be an important consideration for at least some recruits in the Utah/Idaho. Obviously Stew himself was LDS, but my understanding is that he isn't very active. But he was at least supportive of LDS players who wanted to serve missions or otherwise follow their beliefs, so maybe that was enough. I guess where I'm getting at is that I'm worried that not having an LDS coach on staff might hurt us with some local recruits, and I'm wondering if there is any evidence that this might be the case.

And before I get flamed, yes, I know that non-LDS people are far too often treated as second-class citizens in the Mormon Belt, so generally I hate the idea of hiring someone based on their religious beliefs. But at the end of the day, I want to win games. And if not having an LDS coach on staff hurts us with recruiting, then that is something that the head coach needs to think about when hiring assistants. And this isn't just an LDS thing. I'll be very worried if Smith doesn't have at least one African-American coach on his staff, since Stew said many times that he thought that was essential for recruiting African-American players to Logan. Again, in normal circumstances, I would favor hiring the best coach regardless of skin color, but if hiring a black coach is essential for recruiting, then you do what you have to do.

I think you’ve nailed. As a coach you should probably cover all the different demographics. I think Smith made a mistake not hiring Nelson and I also think he will make a mistake if he doesn’t have an African American coach on staff as well.


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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by dyedblue » April 10th, 2018, 6:29 am

Whether Spencer was retained or not, we have to land Utah kids. Sure Utah is in the PAC-12 but we've never competed well with them for recruirs anyway. Of the top of my head from the Stew era forward

Tony Brown
Jared Quayle
Tai Wesley
Gary Wilkinson
Nate Harris
Chris Huber
Sam Merrill
Nate Bendall
Jalen Moore
David Collette (Transferred)
Koby McKewen (High school only)

Close to home - might as well be Utah
Jaycee Carroll
Brady Jardine
Spencer Nelson

Older players like Reid Newey and Kendall Youngblood were from Utah as well.

There's plenty of great players that if we want to be good then we have to bring these kids in. Smith had plenty of time to adjust to recruiting at Utah State let's see what he can do.


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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by aggies22 » April 10th, 2018, 7:34 am

dyedblue wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 6:29 am
Whether Spencer was retained or not, we have to land Utah kids. Sure Utah is in the PAC-12 but we've never competed well with them for recruirs anyway. Of the top of my head from the Stew era forward

Tony Brown
Jared Quayle
Tai Wesley
Gary Wilkinson
Nate Harris
Chris Huber
Sam Merrill
Nate Bendall
Jalen Moore
David Collette (Transferred)
Koby McKewen (High school only)

Close to home - might as well be Utah
Jaycee Carroll
Brady Jardine
Spencer Nelson

Older players like Reid Newey and Kendall Youngblood were from Utah as well.

There's plenty of great players that if we want to be good then we have to bring these kids in. Smith had plenty of time to adjust to recruiting at Utah State let's see what he can do.


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How many of those kids would have been recruited had we already been in the Mountain West? How many of those kids are post 2010? Chris Huber went to Utah first. We weren't his first choice either. Tai Wesley fell into our lap because byu took him for granted, we didn't win that recruiting battle either. The two most recent recruits on that list bailed on us. I think there is way too much emphasis being put on having an LDS coach. You guys are panicking. There typically aren't many D-1 level recruits in Utah anyway and the ones that are get gobbled up by Utah because of the Pac-12 affiliation and the others have been enamored with byu since birth. How many of the leftovers leave the state of Utah and sign with schools that we either compete with or should beat out for recruits?



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Roy McAvoy » April 10th, 2018, 7:44 am

I get that Coach Smith should bring in his own guys. But I'm part of the sentiment that I think understanding the LDS dynamic and the local scene with that is an important piece of the staff. We know Spencer and what a great guy he is. He's only one coach too, there's still two other assistant coaches. I wish he had been retained.

I still fully believe in Coach Smith, but it's looking like we're going to have a take a take step back here before we take two steps forward, which I was hoping wouldn't happen. But if that's what it takes to get us to where we want to be then so be it.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Ahbye » April 10th, 2018, 7:46 am

You guys (bluegrouse and chaos) both missed a key point that perhaps I didn't flesh out enough. Moms read about shenanigans on road trips, about coaches that look the other way, about wild parties, etc. If you've ever been in a recruit's living room, you know that mom will have the most say of anyone in influencing a kid on where he goes. Mom wants to know whether her son is going to be taken care of by a Rick Pitino type or not. This is greatly underestimated. Mom wants good influences. The kid may not want good influences, and at that age, I didn't care whether I had religion or not, same as the next guy. But if you don't think that if it comes down to two state schools wanting a kid and one having an LDS coach and one not, you're mistaken. Like it or not, there are more layers to recruiting than just what a kid wants. He may be an adult, or near to it when he makes his decision, but unless he doesn't have parents, it'll be a collective decision, not a singular one.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by TrueAG » April 10th, 2018, 7:57 am

JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Roy McAvoy » April 10th, 2018, 8:06 am

TrueAG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 7:57 am
JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
So you don't care if more key players transfer off this team causing a massive rebuild next year? NevAggie says several are considering it without at least Spencer retained. He's been mocked on here but the dude has a source. He's been spot on. Especially when he told us "Koby would be gone by the end of the month."



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » April 10th, 2018, 8:13 am

swishh_15 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:06 am
TrueAG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 7:57 am
JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
So you don't care if more key players transfer off this team causing a massive rebuild next year? NevAggie says several are considering it without at least Spencer retained. He's been mocked on here but the dude has a source. He's been spot on. Especially when he told us "Koby would be gone by the end of the month."
Do we want a team run by the players or a coach?



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by TrueAG » April 10th, 2018, 8:18 am

swishh_15 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:06 am
TrueAG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 7:57 am
JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
So you don't care if more key players transfer off this team causing a massive rebuild next year? NevAggie says several are considering it without at least Spencer retained. He's been mocked on here but the dude has a source. He's been spot on. Especially when he told us "Koby would be gone by the end of the month."
I don't care! We have a new staff and are building a program that is bigger than a few guys that will only be here a couple years. If our decisions are dictated by mediocre players, we will never be a good program again.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Roy McAvoy » April 10th, 2018, 8:19 am

hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:13 am
swishh_15 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:06 am
TrueAG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 7:57 am
JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
So you don't care if more key players transfer off this team causing a massive rebuild next year? NevAggie says several are considering it without at least Spencer retained. He's been mocked on here but the dude has a source. He's been spot on. Especially when he told us "Koby would be gone by the end of the month."
Do we want a team run by the players or a coach?
Dammit Hipster! Don't answer a question with a question! :lol:
I know what I want. I was just seeing what others would say.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by TheAKAggie » April 10th, 2018, 8:28 am

I told Coach Smith to not underestimate the Mormon love for hoops, as they build their entire church around a basketball court.


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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » April 10th, 2018, 8:32 am

swishh_15 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:19 am
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:13 am
swishh_15 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:06 am
TrueAG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 7:57 am
JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
So you don't care if more key players transfer off this team causing a massive rebuild next year? NevAggie says several are considering it without at least Spencer retained. He's been mocked on here but the dude has a source. He's been spot on. Especially when he told us "Koby would be gone by the end of the month."
Do we want a team run by the players or a coach?
Dammit Hipster! Don't answer a question with a question! :lol:
I know what I want. I was just seeing what others would say.
Learned from the best.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Chupamedia » April 10th, 2018, 8:32 am

I have not heard of any players seriously wanting to transfer because Spencer was not retained. There is some disappointment, but right now the attitude is pretty positive from the players with the coaching change



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Donald_Sullivan » April 10th, 2018, 8:40 am

NevAggie.....There will be fallout from not retaining Spencer. Several players have indicated their angst in this decision already. Let's keep close watch on the situation the next few days.
Some players are having a little bit of angst? Ahhh.........that's too bad. It's terrible. So upsetting. I've got better things to do, you keep a close watch for me.

If some players are experiencing "angst", they should consider transferring. Go somewhere else. They won't be missed anymore than players who transferred to BYU Hawaii or BYU a few years ago were missed. Spencer's one of my favorite players from Stew's time, but Smith has the right to choose his own staff, and to choose that staff without religious affiliation being a requirement, and without consulting players before he does so.
Last edited by Donald_Sullivan on April 10th, 2018, 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by 2004AG » April 10th, 2018, 8:41 am

TrueAG wrote:JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
Obviously.

But, who do you think would have more success understanding and recruiting Utah and LDS players?


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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Madmartigan » April 10th, 2018, 8:44 am

If one of the players experiencing angst is Merrill, color me very worried. If he leaves we are even more screwed next year.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by ususports » April 10th, 2018, 8:55 am

Madmartigan wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:44 am
If one of the players experiencing angst is Merrill, color me very worried. If he leaves we are even more screwed next year.
No need to worry. I posted some really positive stuff about him in another thread. I hear that the opinions I share on this board are very important to players and their decision making process, so we are on solid ground with Sam.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by thansen » April 10th, 2018, 9:00 am

If Spencer was not a good enough assistant coach for Smith to retain then I can only imagine how good Spencer's replacement will be. According to Smith he has been given the resources necessary to compensate his assistants well. Not to mention, we are paying Smith about twice as much as Duryea so I expect the results to be twice as a good.
Last edited by thansen on April 10th, 2018, 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by ratofallaggies » April 10th, 2018, 9:02 am

Maybe we should hire an Asian on staff so that he can speak to the Asian recruits as well?



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » April 10th, 2018, 9:06 am

2004AG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:41 am
TrueAG wrote:JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
Obviously.

But, who do you think would have more success understanding and recruiting Utah and LDS players?


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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » April 10th, 2018, 9:08 am

thansen wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:00 am
If Spencer was not a good enough assistant coach for Smith to retain then I can only imagine how good Spencer's replacement will be. According to Smith he has been given the resources necessary to compensate his assistants well. Not to mention, we are paying Smith about twice as much as Duryea so I expect the results to be twice as a good.
I'm excited for these 34 win seasons, and a roster full of 4 star recruits! With the occasional 6 star and 8 star recruits, of course.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by 2004AG » April 10th, 2018, 9:11 am

hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:06 am
2004AG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 8:41 am
TrueAG wrote:JFW! I don't care if his staff is filled with buddhist monks if they can recruit and win. Let the guy fill his staff first.
Obviously.

But, who do you think would have more success understanding and recruiting Utah and LDS players?


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I stand corrected. I officially retract all previous statements.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by thansen » April 10th, 2018, 9:18 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:08 am
thansen wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:00 am
If Spencer was not a good enough assistant coach for Smith to retain then I can only imagine how good Spencer's replacement will be. According to Smith he has been given the resources necessary to compensate his assistants well. Not to mention, we are paying Smith about twice as much as Duryea so I expect the results to be twice as a good.
I'm excited for these 34 win seasons, and a roster full of 4 star recruits! With the occasional 6 star and 8 star recruits, of course.
Me too! Hopefully the Energizer Bunny will soon communicate to the fan base what he's working on and how things are moving along to make this happen.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » April 10th, 2018, 9:24 am

2004AG wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:11 am
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:06 am
Image
GATA!
I stand corrected. I officially retract all previous statements.
I thought that might convince you. After some research, turns out every monastery has a court just like every LDS church, but they have full access 24/7 because they never have to concede the gym to the relief society.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by newhouse9 » April 10th, 2018, 9:30 am

Aggie in Hawaii wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 11:52 pm
newhouse9 wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 10:06 pm
Yeah, just a weird deal, to me. I guess we'll see what happens from here.
It isn't that weird or out of the ordinary. The AD appoints someone to be in charge during the transition. The AD did nothing wrong and Coach Smith is going to hire who he wants to hire.
It's weird to me.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by thansen » April 10th, 2018, 9:34 am

When will Coach Smith let us know which player's will not be retained?



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by treesap32 » April 10th, 2018, 9:37 am

thansen wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:34 am
When will Coach Smith let us know which player's will not be retained?
When he's good and ready.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by thansen » April 10th, 2018, 9:47 am

treesap32 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:37 am
thansen wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:34 am
When will Coach Smith let us know which player's will not be retained?
When he's good and ready.
If he can make a decision that quickly on an assistant coach there's no reason why he shouldn't be good and ready to make a decision on at least a couple of players.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by bluegrouse » April 10th, 2018, 10:04 am

NevAggie wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 4:01 am
bluegrouse wrote:I honestly think the necessity of having an LDS guy on staff is greatly over-estimated. As long as the staff is supportive of kids going and coming from missions and respect their religious beliefs, they will be just fine. It’s not like a kid who is Mormon won’t be able to find like-minded students and support at Utah State!!! The place is over 80% LDS these days. Go get the best basketball staff you can possibly find, teach them about the mission thing and call it a day. I think kids want to learn from and play basketball for the best coaches regardless of religious affiliation. I was a very active Mormon kid and I didn’t care if my professors were LDS or not. In fact in my department, there was only one LDS professor. The department was nationally ranked. That was WAY more important to me. I just wanted the best teachers I could get and the ones that could teach me the most. I found my religious support through classmates, friends, the LDS Institute and church attendance. I know it’s not exactly the same situation but the principle is. I just don’t think it’s essential. An added bonus perhaps if all else is equal but that’s all.

Having a black coach is a completely different situation because the university is clearly not 80% black nor is it exactly located in a city with a large 9or even small) black population.
There will be fallout from not retaining Spencer. Several players have indicated their angst in this decision already. Let's keep close watch on the situation the next few days.

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IF that is true, my guess is it’s because the players really like Spencer himself. I highly doubt it’s because Spencer is a Mormon. Two different things.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by Donman » April 10th, 2018, 10:05 am

thansen wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:47 am
treesap32 wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:37 am
thansen wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 9:34 am
When will Coach Smith let us know which player's will not be retained?
When he's good and ready.
If he can make a decision that quickly on an assistant coach there's no reason why he shouldn't be good and ready to make a decision on at least a couple of players.
Remember it seems to be the policy of the university that things take a long time (HR Reasons?). We always seem to know long before any assistant is announced.



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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by bluegrouse » April 10th, 2018, 10:09 am

Ahbye wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 7:46 am
You guys (bluegrouse and chaos) both missed a key point that perhaps I didn't flesh out enough. Moms read about shenanigans on road trips, about coaches that look the other way, about wild parties, etc. If you've ever been in a recruit's living room, you know that mom will have the most say of anyone in influencing a kid on where he goes. Mom wants to know whether her son is going to be taken care of by a Rick Pitino type or not. This is greatly underestimated. Mom wants good influences. The kid may not want good influences, and at that age, I didn't care whether I had religion or not, same as the next guy. But if you don't think that if it comes down to two state schools wanting a kid and one having an LDS coach and one not, you're mistaken. Like it or not, there are more layers to recruiting than just what a kid wants. He may be an adult, or near to it when he makes his decision, but unless he doesn't have parents, it'll be a collective decision, not a singular one.
That argument assumes that only a Mormon can be a stand-up, good influence which is asinine and one of the things that drives me absolutely crazy about our Mormon culture. Does Smith strike you as a guy that’s going to put up with shenanigans and other BS???? If we’re using one very valuable coaching slot as a glorified chaperone, then that’s a huge mistake in my opinion. Let the rare kid that needs that go somewhere else.



LarryTheAggie
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Re: Spencer won’t be retained

Post by LarryTheAggie » April 10th, 2018, 10:28 am

bluegrouse wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 10:09 am
Ahbye wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 7:46 am
You guys (bluegrouse and chaos) both missed a key point that perhaps I didn't flesh out enough. Moms read about shenanigans on road trips, about coaches that look the other way, about wild parties, etc. If you've ever been in a recruit's living room, you know that mom will have the most say of anyone in influencing a kid on where he goes. Mom wants to know whether her son is going to be taken care of by a Rick Pitino type or not. This is greatly underestimated. Mom wants good influences. The kid may not want good influences, and at that age, I didn't care whether I had religion or not, same as the next guy. But if you don't think that if it comes down to two state schools wanting a kid and one having an LDS coach and one not, you're mistaken. Like it or not, there are more layers to recruiting than just what a kid wants. He may be an adult, or near to it when he makes his decision, but unless he doesn't have parents, it'll be a collective decision, not a singular one.
That argument assumes that only a Mormon can be a stand-up, good influence which is asinine and one of the things that drives me absolutely crazy about our Mormon culture. Does Smith strike you as a guy that’s going to put up with shenanigans and other BS???? If we’re using one very valuable coaching slot as a glorified chaperone, then that’s a huge mistake in my opinion. Let the rare kid that needs that go somewhere else.
No. That argument assumes that a Mormon Mother thinks that only a Mormon can be a stand-up, good influence. That assumption is not asinine at all. Whether you agree or not, many Mormon moms would rather have their boys play where there is an LDS coach. For better or worse, Mormons, especially Utah Mormons are more trusting of Mormons than non-mormons.



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