Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

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Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by usubullzone » January 8th, 2019, 8:36 am

The thing is Koby was a ball hog sometimes and he was not always constant
Sam has been constant in my onion over this season so I think that we are better without koby in my opion



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by Floppy Hat » January 8th, 2019, 8:52 am

Dis teeum wood b more butter with Colby McElwain.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by tetonaggie » January 8th, 2019, 9:08 am

I'd love to see what Koby could do on this team with Smith coaching. To answer the question, I think we'd be better.


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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by sam tingey » January 8th, 2019, 9:10 am

better.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by bluegrouse » January 8th, 2019, 9:17 am

Much better.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by USUBlue » January 8th, 2019, 9:29 am

Better



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by aggies22 » January 8th, 2019, 9:31 am

Likely better but Koby left after meeting with Coach Smith, so maybe Koby felt he didn't fit what Coach Smith envisioned doing here.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by NVAggie » January 8th, 2019, 9:36 am

Don't care.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by brownjeans » January 8th, 2019, 9:44 am

A player with a low True Shooting Percentage stat can rack up nice looking totals through high usage. High-usage, inefficient players hurt your team offensively because when they use those possessions they score fewer points than if someone more efficient used those possessions AND they use a ton of possessions. So whether we would be better with Kobe depends on usage and efficiency of Kobe compared to others who would use those possessions. Looking at our roster, it's tough to find a lot of guys I'd rather have using possessions.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, Kobe will be a good player for Marquette. I think he'll probably be a better player because of the transfer than if he would have stayed. I think he needed a team change and the RS year.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by ChicAggie » January 8th, 2019, 9:49 am

Floppy Hat wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 8:52 am
Dis teeum wood b more butter with Colby McElwain.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

POTD


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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by cdaAg » January 8th, 2019, 10:23 am

usubullzone wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 8:36 am
Sam has been constant in my onion over this season so I think that we are better without koby in my opion
I’m not sure I want anyone or anything in my onion (taking a guess at the euphemism), but I’m happy for you that Koby is out of your opion (I think!).



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by ChicAggie » January 8th, 2019, 10:28 am

aggies22 wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 9:31 am
Likely better but Koby left after meeting with Coach Smith, so maybe Koby felt he didn't fit what Coach Smith envisioned doing here.
It seems that you often have inside information, so perhaps there is more behind this comment than just timing, but IIRC, Koby announced his transfer only 2-3 days after Smith's hire. To announce it that quickly after the hire, it seems that the transfer had to have been in the works LONG before Smith arrived. I suppose it is possible Koby was waiting to sign papers and make an announcement until after a new coach was hired to see if the new coach could persuade him to stay, but psychologically once a person has decided to see if the grass is greener, it is very difficult to reverse course -- particularly when the grass actually DOES appear greener from where you are standing. I'm sure Marquette rolled out the red carpet (sorry to mix my colors and metaphors) and made all kinds of promises to Koby -- and maybe they will deliver. Koby thought he had already seen what USU had to offer, and it apparently wasn't all he had hoped for. I blame Duryea for that, not Smith.

As for the initial question, there is absolutely no doubt this very good team would be significantly better with Koby. Probably 13-2 right now. I don't think we lose either the BYU or ASU game with a healthy Koby at PG. Obviously this is all pure conjecture, but when you have a group of players manning a position whose collective performance -- particularly in losses -- has been abysmal, it is very difficult to make up for that huge negative. In those games, PAK's* average Net Rating has been a huge negative, their average PER has been near or below zero, their win shares have been negative, and their plus/minus has been negative.

In four losses, here are PAK's stats:

Player...Minutes...FG/FGA...3P/3PA...FG%...FT/FTA...PTS...A/TO...PF
Porter......25............0/6..........0/4....... .000.......1/2.........1........4/2.....2
Ainge......51............4/9...........1/5....... .444......0/0.........9........5/4.....11
Knight....23............0/4...........0/2....... .000......5/6.........5........2/1......0

So, in four losses, PAK have averaged a combined 25 MIN, 3.75 PTS, 2.75 AST, 1.75 TO, and 3.25 PF while shooting .210 FG% and .091 3P%. Abysmal. Their collective average would literally have been the single worst game of Koby's career. And imagine what Koby could have done with some actual coaching and another year of growth and maturity. I'm firmly in the camp that believes strongly that Koby could have been the missing ingredient on a team that might have battled for a 2nd place conference finish and an NCAA at large bid. As it stands, even without Koby, Smith has done an amazing job and very well may accomplish both things without Koby. I'm not counting on it or betting on it, but stranger things have happened.

* FN: PAK is not a reference to former Aggie mediocre PG David Pak, but to our three-headed monster PG - PorterAingeKnight (who are collectively far worse than David Pak).


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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by treesap32 » January 8th, 2019, 10:37 am

ChicAggie wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 10:28 am
aggies22 wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 9:31 am
Likely better but Koby left after meeting with Coach Smith, so maybe Koby felt he didn't fit what Coach Smith envisioned doing here.
It seems that you often have inside information, so perhaps there is more behind this comment than just timing, but IIRC, Koby announced his transfer only 2-3 days after Smith's hire. To announce it that quickly after the hire, it seems that the transfer had to have been in the works LONG before Smith arrived. I suppose it is possible Koby was waiting to sign papers and make an announcement until after a new coach was hired to see if the new coach could persuade him to stay, but psychologically once a person has decided to see if the grass is greener, it is very difficult to reverse course -- particularly when the grass actually DOES appear greener from where you are standing. I'm sure Marquette rolled out the red carpet (sorry to mix my colors and metaphors) and made all kinds of promises to Koby -- and maybe they will deliver. Koby thought he had already seen what USU had to offer, and it apparently wasn't all he had hoped for. I blame Duryea for that, not Smith.

As for the initial question, there is absolutely no doubt this very good team would be significantly better with Koby. Probably 13-2 right now. I don't think we lose either the BYU or ASU game with a healthy Koby at PG. Obviously this is all pure conjecture, but when you have a group of players manning a position whose collective performance -- particularly in losses -- has been abysmal, it is very difficult to make up for that huge negative. In those games, PAK's* average Net Rating has been a huge negative, their average PER has been near or below zero, their win shares have been negative, and their plus/minus has been negative.

In four losses, here are PAK's stats:

Player...Minutes...FG/FGA...3P/3PA...FG%...FT/FTA...PTS...A/TO...PF
Porter......25............0/6..........0/4....... .000.......1/2.........1........4/2.....2
Ainge......51............4/9...........1/5....... .444......0/0.........9........5/4.....11
Knight....23............0/4...........0/2....... .000......5/6.........5........2/1......0

So, in four losses, PAK have averaged a combined 25 MIN, 3.75 PTS, 2.75 AST, 1.75 TO, and 3.25 PF while shooting .210 FG% and .091 3P%. Abysmal. Their collective average would literally have been the single worst game of Koby's career. And imagine what Koby could have done with some actual coaching and another year of growth and maturity. I'm firmly in the camp that believes strongly that Koby could have been the missing ingredient on a team that might have battled for a 2nd place conference finish and an NCAA at large bid. As it stands, even without Koby, Smith has done an amazing job and very well may accomplish both things without Koby. I'm not counting on it or betting on it, but stranger things have happened.

* FN: PAK is not a reference to former Aggie mediocre PG David Pak, but to our three-headed monster PG - PorterAingeKnight (who are collectively far worse than David Pak).
Your next task is to predict how well we would do this year with Pak instead of PAK. My guess is quite a bit better as well.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by ChicAggie » January 8th, 2019, 10:55 am

treesap32 wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 10:37 am
Your next task is to predict how well we would do this year with Pak instead of PAK. My guess is quite a bit better as well.
I was never a big fan of Pak (as anyone in Chat when Pak made a particularly poor play could attest), but he was definitely head and shoulders above PAK.

The irony of comparing Pak to PAK was that his teams ALSO performed very well DESPITE his play in many instances, not because of his presence. The games that stand out particularly were the two NCAA tourney losses against Arizona and Washington when all I could think was, "if only the Aggies had a decent PG like Bernard Rock -- or even Mark Brown -- maybe we could beat these teams." Pak was overmatched in both of those games and I believe had 4 or 5 turnovers in each game while scoring virtually nothing.


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Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by aggieup15 » January 8th, 2019, 11:20 am

Probably better, but with that being said I think only if he could buy into the program and gain discipline. I think everyone on the team this year (for the most part. Sometimes Brown gets a little crazy) is on the same page, they want success for their team so people on the team are willing to play whatever role they can in order to succeed, whereas I don’t think Koby understood that factor. Obviously he was a great player, but he wasn’t really a team player and that hurt us for a lot of games last year. It would’ve been interesting to see him Coached under Smith because I don’t think Smith would’ve let him get away with his constant whining and selfishness that cost us a lot of games last year, but I think he could’ve helped improve Koby’s game a ton. Either way I guess we’ll never really know. Best of luck to him at Marquette, will be interesting to see him play next year


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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by nlag » January 8th, 2019, 11:48 am

No doubt we would be better. It's like asking if Koby would add anymore than an Ainge or Porter do. Get serious.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by garyismyhomeboy » January 8th, 2019, 12:58 pm

Coach Smith's gets the most out of his players in my opinion. Koby would have been utilized effectively under his direction.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by brownjeans » January 8th, 2019, 2:13 pm

ChicAggie wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 10:55 am
treesap32 wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 10:37 am
Your next task is to predict how well we would do this year with Pak instead of PAK. My guess is quite a bit better as well.
I was never a big fan of Pak (as anyone in Chat when Pak made a particularly poor play could attest), but he was definitely head and shoulders above PAK.

The irony of comparing Pak to PAK was that his teams ALSO performed very well DESPITE his play in many instances, not because of his presence. The games that stand out particularly were the two NCAA tourney losses against Arizona and Washington when all I could think was, "if only the Aggies had a decent PG like Bernard Rock -- or even Mark Brown -- maybe we could beat these teams." Pak was overmatched in both of those games and I believe had 4 or 5 turnovers in each game while scoring virtually nothing.
Another irony is that our previous experience with Pak is what recently caused me to think we'd be better off playing another wing instead of a PG (PAK) this season.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by AggieBlueMint » January 8th, 2019, 2:26 pm

Would be better. How much would depend on if he bought into Smith's vision.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by mcaggie1 » January 8th, 2019, 2:55 pm

Let’s see, let me think hard about this one.

Koby at point guard vs Abel Porter? Hmmmmmm that is a tough one.
Koby at point guard vs Crew Ainge? Hummmmm just can’t decide.

Can you get me an easier question to answer? I can’t stand the pressure. I hate hard tests!



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by mcaggie1 » January 8th, 2019, 3:10 pm

brownjeans wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 9:44 am
A player with a low True Shooting Percentage stat can rack up nice looking totals through high usage. High-usage, inefficient players hurt your team offensively because when they use those possessions they score fewer points than if someone more efficient used those possessions AND they use a ton of possessions. So whether we would be better with Kobe depends on usage and efficiency of Kobe compared to others who would use those possessions. Looking at our roster, it's tough to find a lot of guys I'd rather have using possessions.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, Kobe will be a good player for Marquette. I think he'll probably be a better player because of the transfer than if he would have stayed. I think he needed a team change and the RS year.
Huuuuuuhhhh? So you would rather have Unable Porter running the team in place of Koby? In spite of your tsp and your hu’s and your u and e’s....I think deep down inside you would like Kobe on this team. At least I hope so.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by Aggie-Man » January 8th, 2019, 4:27 pm

I just wonder of maybe Kobe might be having second thoughts given our success this year with our new coach and all?



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by sneed » January 8th, 2019, 4:42 pm

Aggie-Man wrote:I just wonder of maybe Kobe might be having second thoughts given our success this year with our new coach and all?
His team is doing very well. Probably need to wait and see his playing time next year to see if it was maybe worth it.

He was frustrating sometimes but man I wish he were still here. Not sure he would have bought in to a new system but I would think he would make this team so much better. He worked hard and would not give up (at least during games).


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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by gomretat » January 8th, 2019, 4:55 pm

No brainer. Much better



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by GUS » January 8th, 2019, 5:05 pm

I gathered from reading Koby's tweets that he didn't like living in Logan. Seems like it was more than just a change of the coach.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by thansen » January 8th, 2019, 8:17 pm

I think we are better without Colby Mckewen. Colby was no doubt a great athlete but I'm not sure how the team chemistry was with him. Maybe we could ask Saum, Broc, Burrito, Croo, Kwinn, Justen, and/or Khlay Stahl what they think. It might even be a good idea to ask Spensir Nilsun what he thinks. From what I've heard Colby was a cancer and very focused on himself. Obviously Colby didn't want to be here.

How good would our team have been last year if Davud Cullet hadn't transfered and if we had signed Tiler Rosson. Maybe Coach DureeYAY would still be with us? Maybe Colby will come back next season and we can find out?



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by treesap32 » January 8th, 2019, 9:44 pm

Khlay Stahl!!!!

LMFAO

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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by brownjeans » January 8th, 2019, 10:46 pm

mcaggie1 wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 3:10 pm
brownjeans wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 9:44 am
A player with a low True Shooting Percentage stat can rack up nice looking totals through high usage. High-usage, inefficient players hurt your team offensively because when they use those possessions they score fewer points than if someone more efficient used those possessions AND they use a ton of possessions. So whether we would be better with Kobe depends on usage and efficiency of Kobe compared to others who would use those possessions. Looking at our roster, it's tough to find a lot of guys I'd rather have using possessions.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, Kobe will be a good player for Marquette. I think he'll probably be a better player because of the transfer than if he would have stayed. I think he needed a team change and the RS year.
Huuuuuuhhhh? So you would rather have Unable Porter running the team in place of Koby? In spite of your tsp and your hu’s and your u and e’s....I think deep down inside you would like Kobe on this team. At least I hope so.
Please reread my post.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by Cuchelain » January 9th, 2019, 1:00 am

The logical and seemingly obvious answer would be that MceWen would help the team. Our current point guard line up is not setting the world on fire.

But I just have a hard time imagining MceWen on this team for some reason. The strength of this team and the reason they are a delight to watch is because there is very much an all for one and one for all vibe with these guys. The team plays together and is playing better than the sum of its parts. If you break down our team by talent level, we have no business winning some of the games that we are winning. In this case I could see the infusion of a talented but selfish player into the mix being subtraction by addition. So if he was willing to buy in and accept his role, of course MceWen would have helped the team. A lot. But I don't think we would be any better than we are now with a guy who is unwilling to fully buy in and put the team first. So in my mind it would all depend on that.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by MarioWest » January 9th, 2019, 7:09 am

Unless he started shooting at his own basket, Koby would help this team tremendously--whether he bought in or not. Ainge & Porter work hard, but they aren't MW talents. Knight is not ready. If Koby did "buy in," this team could be devastating. Still lacking depth, but McEwen-Merrill-Queta would be one hell of a start.

Koby's biggest contribution would be the attention he would draw away from Sam. The two best teams USU played this year, Nevada and Houston, focused their game plans on shutting Sam down--much easier to do when you can ignore the PG. Simply by being a scoring threat, even an inefficient one, Koby would open the offensive up for everyone else.



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by usubullzone » January 9th, 2019, 8:45 am

MarioWest wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 7:09 am
Unless he started shooting at his own basket, Koby would help this team tremendously--whether he bought in or not. Ainge & Porter work hard, but they aren't MW talents. Knight is not ready. If Koby did "buy in," this team could be devastating. Still lacking depth, but McEwen-Merrill-Queta would be one hell of a start.

Koby's biggest contribution would be the attention he would draw away from Sam. The two best teams USU played this year, Nevada and Houston, focused their game plans on shutting Sam down--much easier to do when you can ignore the PG. Simply by being a scoring threat, even an inefficient one, Koby would open the offensive up for everyone else.
I can see what you mean is would bring attention off of sam but would sam still be getting the numbers he does?? :noidea:



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by usubullzone » January 9th, 2019, 8:46 am

MarioWest wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 7:09 am
Unless he started shooting at his own basket, Koby would help this team tremendously--whether he bought in or not. Ainge & Porter work hard, but they aren't MW talents. Knight is not ready. If Koby did "buy in," this team could be devastating. Still lacking depth, but McEwen-Merrill-Queta would be one hell of a start.

Koby's biggest contribution would be the attention he would draw away from Sam. The two best teams USU played this year, Nevada and Houston, focused their game plans on shutting Sam down--much easier to do when you can ignore the PG. Simply by being a scoring threat, even an inefficient one, Koby would open the offensive up for everyone else.
I can see what you mean is would bring attention off of sam but would sam still be getting the numbers he does?? :noidea:



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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by 2004AG » January 9th, 2019, 10:15 am

This is a dumb question. Of course we would be a lot better with KM. It’s almost as dumb as thinking we would be better off without Collette.

I don’t understand the fascination with Aggie fans trashing players once they leave. I’m not happy he left either and he wasn’t the prefect players but he was really good and we definitely miss him this year.


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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by ChicAggie » January 9th, 2019, 10:18 am

usubullzone wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 8:45 am
I can see what you mean is would bring attention off of sam but would sam still be getting the numbers he does?? :noidea:
I think the point was that Sam does NOT get his numbers against the good teams who have focused all their attention on him. In wins, Sam is averaging 20.4 ppg, 5.1 apg, and 1.6 topg while shooting .549 fg% on 12.1 fga and .456 3p% on 5.2 3pa. In losses, his numbers are WAY down: 16.5 ppg, 1 apg, and 2.5 topg while shooting .389 fg% on 13.5 fga and .227 3p% on 5.5 3pa. So he's actually taking 1.4 more shots per game in losses (probably due to the added pressure of carrying the team and added time on the court), but converting them at a MUCH lower rate due to the attention paid to him. His assists are also WAY down in losses while turnovers are nearly doubled. If Koby were here, that pressure would be alleviated significantly.


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Re: Would this team be good or bad with Kobe MceWen

Post by ChicAggie » January 9th, 2019, 10:20 am

2004AG wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 10:15 am
This is a dumb question. Of course we would be a lot better with KM. It’s almost as dumb as thinking we would be better off without Collette.

I don’t understand the fascination with Aggie fans trashing players once they leave. I’m not happy he left either and he wasn’t the prefect players but he was really good and we definitely miss him this year.
Agreed on all points. Sometimes it seems we have posters on this forum who either do not watch the games or don't understand what they are watching.


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