Here are the security tapes.

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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by aggiesdotcom » March 5th, 2019, 12:12 pm

newhouse9 wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:09 pm
NVAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 11:23 am
First of all, I'm glad Jazz Johnson didn't trip on his untied shoes. That could have been bad. Some other observations after watching:

1. Jordan Caroline never enters the Nevada locker room.He is out in the hall with other assistants.
2. The assistants whip their heads around first. They clearly hear something down the hall that they don't like. I'm sure Caroline heard it too.
3. I don't know what the Nevada players intentions were, but two of them tried to hold them in the locker room. That obviously didn't work.
4. Ragland obviously said something that got this whole thing started. Musselman just wanted to get to the locker room. I don't consider him slighting anyone. After some short words, that thing seems to be over with.

This whole thing doesn't happen if Ragland shuts his mouth. Also, Nevada needs to get their player in the locker room. Allowing an emotional player to linger in open space is a bad idea. Just a bad deal but definitely overblown.
He did actually enter it. Later, he sprints out of the locker room back down the hall, followed closely by two waves of players/coaches...the second wave was being restrained by their staff, until they broke through.
Come on newhouse, the entire premise of this thread is showing the video tapes. He clearly never enters the locker room. He's in the hallway pouting the entire time.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by NVAggie » March 5th, 2019, 12:22 pm

3:26 to 3:50

He never enters the locker room.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by BeefEater » March 5th, 2019, 12:34 pm

Basically, that GREAT KID Caroline went on a rampage, tried to start a riot, was thwarted, then destroyed property, tried again to start a fight, shouted THAT WORD repeatedly, before finally quitting. It took a whole team of large strong men to prevent this from being worse than it was.

Now, the only thing that would remotely justify setting this off is if someone(s) from the USU team actually challenged Caroline to a fight (e.g. Come on, THAT WORD. I'z right here! Let's go, THAT WORD! . . .Then, Caroline sprints toward Ragland).


As for why USU doesn't want to press this any further is because if they actually were to press charges against that GREAT KID, the national media would try to crucify Utah State for being racist. After all, He's a GREAT KID and no GREAT KID would react that way unless somebody called him THAT WORD. That trope has been a repeated theme throughout this entire episode.
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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by aggies22 » March 5th, 2019, 1:07 pm

NVAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 11:23 am
First of all, I'm glad Jazz Johnson didn't trip on his untied shoes. That could have been bad. Some other observations after watching:

1. Jordan Caroline never enters the Nevada locker room.He is out in the hall with other assistants.
2. The assistants whip their heads around first. They clearly hear something down the hall that they don't like. I'm sure Caroline heard it too.
3. I don't know what the Nevada players intentions were, but two of them tried to hold them in the locker room. That obviously didn't work.
4. Ragland obviously said something that got this whole thing started. Musselman just wanted to get to the locker room. I don't consider him slighting anyone. After some short words, that thing seems to be over with.

This whole thing doesn't happen if Ragland shuts his mouth. Also, Nevada needs to get their player in the locker room. Allowing an emotional player to linger in open space is a bad idea. Just a bad deal but definitely overblown.
All Coach Ragland said was "real classy". That I can tell you is 100% factual. I think I've proven I've got damn good sources when it comes to this incident. It's not ok to blame Rags. Musselman's unprofessional approach to the hand shake line is what started this. Once the Nevada assistants saw that Coach Musselman was dogging our coaches, it made it okay for more of them to disrespect our coaching staff.
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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by aggies22 » March 5th, 2019, 1:11 pm

afausu wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:00 pm
You're exactly right, NV. Ragland should have just shut his trap. So they didn't shake your hand and showed poor sportsmanship. Who cares? You won the game! That is the only statement that you need!
NOT OK to blame Coach Rags. All he said was "real classy". Were the Nevada coaches being classy or not?
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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by aggiesdotcom » March 5th, 2019, 1:13 pm

Was he yelling that down the corridor or was that when he was pointing at the assistants after the handshake snub?



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by tetonaggie » March 5th, 2019, 1:17 pm

jpswensen wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 11:14 am
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
sam tingey wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 10:54 am
It sounds right in substance to me other than not filling in the gap that the wolfpack actually made it to their locker room before all the mayhem. USU staff said things in a charged environment and nevada escalated just like Forde wrote. His depiction of the police is a little dramatic but they did come in forcefully to diffuse everything. It really was a blemish on an otherwise awesome conference game of the year.
He could've mentioned that the Nevada coaches were doing nothing to get their team back to the room and diffuse the situation that was about to erupt, which was why the officer acted the way he did. He could've mentioned that Nevada had already been in their locker room and then left when Caroline burst out the doors. He could've mentioned Musselman refusing to shake hands through the line. He could've not insinuated that the court storming had anything to do with the disturbance like he did.
Ahbye said that it was radioed that there was a fight between players. I think the policeman’s aggressive actions to get toward the sound of breaking glass and hysterical yelling were completely appropriate.


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I watched three cops on the court go from casually monitoring the crowd on the court to making a full speed b-line into the tunnel as soon as they got word. I'm not surprised they acted the way they did, all they knew is that they were trying to diffuse a potentially disastrous situation.


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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by JSHarvey » March 5th, 2019, 1:25 pm

Slightly different subject but why in the world do the powers that be think the opposing teams and players should shake hands? Seems the perfect setup to have something like this be guaranteed to happen on occasion. If someone is upset and doesn't want to shake why is it presumed they should/have to?


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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by afausu » March 5th, 2019, 1:26 pm

That's all fine and good that all he said was "real classy". But the point is he didn't need to say anything. Was Nevada a bunch of sore losers? Yes. Is Musselman's poor sportsmanship what started this whole thing? Absolutely. The guy is a jerk. But all Ragland's comment did was fuel the fire. And wouldn't he have had to YELL "real classy" down the hallway? They wouldn't have heard him if he'd just casually said it. Don't misunderstand. Nevada is clearly to blame. Just not a very smart move on Ragland's part. Maybe something more was said to him that made him upset. Who knows. Just be the better man.
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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by jpswensen » March 5th, 2019, 1:28 pm

aggies22 wrote:
afausu wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 12:00 pm
You're exactly right, NV. Ragland should have just shut his trap. So they didn't shake your hand and showed poor sportsmanship. Who cares? You won the game! That is the only statement that you need!
NOT OK to blame Coach Rags. All he said was "real classy". Were the Nevada coaches being classy or not?
In the videos it looked like Rags refused an outstretched hand, after a couple previous coaches, including Musselman had not extended a hand. It then looked like the Nevada assistant said something to Rags and Rags turned and said something back.


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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by brownjeans » March 5th, 2019, 1:40 pm

I doubt our coaches yelled anything down the hallway. I bet they came into the tunnel and were talking amongst themselves, not toward the Nevada coaches and players who were around the corner who they didn't see - couldn't see. It was a private conversation and none of Nevada's business.

The Nevada coaches overheard them - because the tunnel carries sound well - decided to make it their business (this is where their immaturity and machismo caused the escalation). The last two Nevada coaches turned and started shouting trash down the hall. There was likely a response. Other Nevada coaches came out of the locker room. Then Caroline flipped out and the stampede started. A couple Nevada coaches turned to contain the Nevada locker room. Failed... etc.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by TheAKAggie » March 5th, 2019, 1:50 pm

tetonaggie wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:But why on earth did we elect to fall on our sword for these jerks! Hartwell goes as far as to thank them to make matters worse. And no apology was demanded of Nevada or Caroline?
I see your point of view and want to agree with it. But I also think, if indeed a USU coach or BBall staff member said “F....You!” to a UNR coach or player in the handshake line or later in the tunnel, they are out of line and not representative of the standards we should uphold and helped, to a small degree, fan the flames. I’m not saying we are at fault, UNR should bear the brunt of any blame and wrongdoing in this situation, but I can see why Hartwell would want to just let it go at this point.


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The only time I have cursed at someone in a handshake line was when they kept their gloves on (I’ll let you guess the sport.) Very similar situations. If you refuse to shake hands or first bump, you deserve to get f-bombed.


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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by sam tingey » March 5th, 2019, 1:52 pm

TheAKAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:50 pm
tetonaggie wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:But why on earth did we elect to fall on our sword for these jerks! Hartwell goes as far as to thank them to make matters worse. And no apology was demanded of Nevada or Caroline?
I see your point of view and want to agree with it. But I also think, if indeed a USU coach or BBall staff member said “F....You!” to a UNR coach or player in the handshake line or later in the tunnel, they are out of line and not representative of the standards we should uphold and helped, to a small degree, fan the flames. I’m not saying we are at fault, UNR should bear the brunt of any blame and wrongdoing in this situation, but I can see why Hartwell would want to just let it go at this point.


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The only time I have cursed at someone in a handshake line was when they kept their gloves on (I’ll let you guess the sport.) Very similar situations. If you refuse to shake hands or first bump, you deserve to get f-bombed.
well aren't you just a GREAT KID!?
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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by USU78 » March 5th, 2019, 2:03 pm

TheAKAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:50 pm
tetonaggie wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:But why on earth did we elect to fall on our sword for these jerks! Hartwell goes as far as to thank them to make matters worse. And no apology was demanded of Nevada or Caroline?
I see your point of view and want to agree with it. But I also think, if indeed a USU coach or BBall staff member said “F....You!” to a UNR coach or player in the handshake line or later in the tunnel, they are out of line and not representative of the standards we should uphold and helped, to a small degree, fan the flames. I’m not saying we are at fault, UNR should bear the brunt of any blame and wrongdoing in this situation, but I can see why Hartwell would want to just let it go at this point.
The only time I have cursed at someone in a handshake line was when they kept their gloves on (I’ll let you guess the sport.) Very similar situations. If you refuse to shake hands or first bump, you deserve to get f-bombed.
I'd disagree with that. Rudeness through inaction is of a completely different quality from rudeness of action/expression.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by NVAggie » March 5th, 2019, 2:09 pm

aggies22, I'm okay with accepting that Ragland only said "real classy" during the handshakes. I think it is stupid to even worry about it myself. Ask your sources what was being said in the tunnel. That would be far more informative. I accept private messages.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by aggies22 » March 5th, 2019, 2:12 pm

NVAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 2:09 pm
aggies22, I'm okay with accepting that Ragland only said "real classy" during the handshakes. I think it is stupid to even worry about it myself. Ask your sources what was being said in the tunnel. That would be far more informative. I accept private messages.
I'll see what I can find out!



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by freakboy » March 5th, 2019, 2:27 pm

It looked to me from the security camera video from the press box that Musselman DID shake everybody's hand.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by pablohoney » March 5th, 2019, 2:45 pm

One semi frightening observation after knowing that Caroline has a crazy switch... watching the handshakes from the press camera, it almost looks like Caroline is perusing the crowd for anyone he can find an excuse to attack. Metta World Peace.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by bluegrouse » March 5th, 2019, 2:46 pm

aggies22 wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:07 pm
NVAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 11:23 am
First of all, I'm glad Jazz Johnson didn't trip on his untied shoes. That could have been bad. Some other observations after watching:

1. Jordan Caroline never enters the Nevada locker room.He is out in the hall with other assistants.
2. The assistants whip their heads around first. They clearly hear something down the hall that they don't like. I'm sure Caroline heard it too.
3. I don't know what the Nevada players intentions were, but two of them tried to hold them in the locker room. That obviously didn't work.
4. Ragland obviously said something that got this whole thing started. Musselman just wanted to get to the locker room. I don't consider him slighting anyone. After some short words, that thing seems to be over with.

This whole thing doesn't happen if Ragland shuts his mouth. Also, Nevada needs to get their player in the locker room. Allowing an emotional player to linger in open space is a bad idea. Just a bad deal but definitely overblown.
All Coach Ragland said was "real classy". That I can tell you is 100% factual. I think I've proven I've got damn good sources when it comes to this incident. It's not ok to blame Rags. Musselman's unprofessional approach to the hand shake line is what started this. Once the Nevada assistants saw that Coach Musselman was dogging our coaches, it made it okay for more of them to disrespect our coaching staff.
If all Ragland said was ‘real classy’, his stock just went way, way up for me. I would like to know what set off Caroline. As of yet, all we have is pure speculation that something was said, yelled or otherwise was heard in the tunnel. Until we have some confirmation of that, we really have no idea what happened.

I find it entirely implausible that the coaches exchange on the floor set him off even if f-bombs were exchanged. Either he heard something or he simply lost control of himself. He didn’t appear to be a guy in control of his emotions from the moment he entered the tunnel.....



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by ozzie1p » March 5th, 2019, 2:55 pm

All we need to know is that he was VERBALLY ABUSED. And when one is verbally abused like sweet C was then you no longer have to be accountable for your actions.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by CaptainChaos » March 5th, 2019, 2:57 pm

freakboy wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 2:27 pm
It looked to me from the security camera video from the press box that Musselman DID shake everybody's hand.
It looks to me like he skips Ragland and so do the next 3 nevada coaches. Ragland doesn't put his hand out for the next couple coaches because why would he? The Nevada coaches take offense at Ragland and they shout at each other.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by IdAggie » March 5th, 2019, 3:15 pm

For Nevada's sake...It is probably a good thing that there was not a security camera showing the USU locker room doorway. From a very credible source who saw much of it first hand and others in the AD. As the Nevada team and coaches passed the locker room and returned that direction they were throwing Mountain Dew bottles, water bottles, etc. into the Aggie locker room as part of the tirade. The lids were off of these bottles and had to be cleaned up. There were also a plethora of words shouted in the hallway and into the locker room that were much more offensive and personal than the "real classy" from coach Rags. In final, yes there was an attempt by those from Nevada to get into the Aggie locker room. Motives are not clear, but let's talk about sportsmanship, class and instigation. It is too bad that there is not video to paint a more clear picture of some of the behavior and exchanges. Nevada would be embarrassed and USU would be further exonerated from the ugliness of the situation. For me, the culture that would allow this after a loss starts at the top (head coach). Take the loss and move forward!
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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by AgMan21 » March 5th, 2019, 3:17 pm

IdAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:15 pm
For Nevada's sake...It is probably a good thing that there was not a security camera showing the USU locker room doorway. From a very credible source who saw much of it first hand and others in the AD. As the Nevada team and coaches passed the locker room and returned that direction they were throwing Mountain Dew bottles, water bottles, etc. into the Aggie locker room as part of the tirade. The lids were off of these bottles and had to be cleaned up. There were also a plethora of words shouted in the hallway and into the locker room that were much more offensive and personal than the "real classy" from coach Rags. In final, yes there was an attempt by those from Nevada to get into the Aggie locker room. Motives are not clear, but let's talk about sportsmanship, class and instigation. It is too bad that there is not video to paint a more clear picture of some of the behavior and exchanges. Nevada would be embarrassed and USU would be further exonerated from the ugliness of the situation. For me, the culture that would allow this after a loss starts at the top (head coach). Take the loss and move forward!

Are we sure that there isn't additional camera footage?



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by hipsterdoofus21 » March 5th, 2019, 3:20 pm

IdAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:15 pm
For Nevada's sake...It is probably a good thing that there was not a security camera showing the USU locker room doorway. From a very credible source who saw much of it first hand and others in the AD. As the Nevada team and coaches passed the locker room and returned that direction they were throwing Mountain Dew bottles, water bottles, etc. into the Aggie locker room as part of the tirade. The lids were off of these bottles and had to be cleaned up. There were also a plethora of words shouted in the hallway and into the locker room that were much more offensive and personal than the "real classy" from coach Rags. In final, yes there was an attempt by those from Nevada to get into the Aggie locker room. Motives are not clear, but let's talk about sportsmanship, class and instigation. It is too bad that there is not video to paint a more clear picture of some of the behavior and exchanges. Nevada would be embarrassed and USU would be further exonerated from the ugliness of the situation. For me, the culture that would allow this after a loss starts at the top (head coach). Take the loss and move forward!
This is on the way to their locker room the first time?



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by ProvoAggie » March 5th, 2019, 3:23 pm

AgMan21 wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:17 pm
Are we sure that there isn't additional camera footage?
The only camera footage we haven't seen is from Nevada's documentary crew and that may never see the light of day.
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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by treesap32 » March 5th, 2019, 3:27 pm

IdAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:15 pm
For Nevada's sake...It is probably a good thing that there was not a security camera showing the USU locker room doorway. From a very credible source who saw much of it first hand and others in the AD. As the Nevada team and coaches passed the locker room and returned that direction they were throwing Mountain Dew bottles, water bottles, etc. into the Aggie locker room as part of the tirade. The lids were off of these bottles and had to be cleaned up. There were also a plethora of words shouted in the hallway and into the locker room that were much more offensive and personal than the "real classy" from coach Rags. In final, yes there was an attempt by those from Nevada to get into the Aggie locker room. Motives are not clear, but let's talk about sportsmanship, class and instigation. It is too bad that there is not video to paint a more clear picture of some of the behavior and exchanges. Nevada would be embarrassed and USU would be further exonerated from the ugliness of the situation. For me, the culture that would allow this after a loss starts at the top (head coach). Take the loss and move forward!
You must be mistaken. From all accounts (meaning all of his personal tweets), he has a bunch of GREAT KIDS that play for him and he teaches them to not only be great basketball players, but great citizens as well.








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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by letsbehonest » March 5th, 2019, 3:30 pm

Lost in all this bull (I can't express myself without swearing) is the fact that the Aggies out executed Nevada. The effort on defense by the Aggies flustered Nevada all game long.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by bluegrouse » March 5th, 2019, 3:34 pm

Does anyone have access to the MW report? Did anyone from Nevada allege racial comments? If not, the entire alleged racial component of this mess can be safely put to bed. Can someone find out?



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by ProvoAggie » March 5th, 2019, 3:36 pm

bluegrouse wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:34 pm
Does anyone have access to the MW report? Did anyone from Nevada allege racial comments? If not, the entire alleged racial component of this mess can be safely put to bed. Can someone find out?
I put in a GRAMA request for it yesterday as well but as of yet I haven't received a response.

EDIT: I just received a response that the university never received an official report and that the statement that was released to the public is the only thing the university has.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by bluegrouse » March 5th, 2019, 3:59 pm

ProvoAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:36 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:34 pm
Does anyone have access to the MW report? Did anyone from Nevada allege racial comments? If not, the entire alleged racial component of this mess can be safely put to bed. Can someone find out?
I put in a GRAMA request for it yesterday as well but as of yet I haven't received a response.

EDIT: I just received a response that the university never received an official report and that the statement that was released to the public is the only thing the university has.
Interesting. Okay. Thank you so much for following up. I would assume that if there were such allegations that the university would have at very least been informed of such. Much appreciated.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by jpswensen » March 5th, 2019, 4:05 pm

ProvoAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:36 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:34 pm
Does anyone have access to the MW report? Did anyone from Nevada allege racial comments? If not, the entire alleged racial component of this mess can be safely put to bed. Can someone find out?
I put in a GRAMA request for it yesterday as well but as of yet I haven't received a response.

EDIT: I just received a response that the university never received an official report and that the statement that was released to the public is the only thing the university has.
I emailed the man who sent me the video from my GRAMA request to ask if there was video footage from the other hallway, but he hasn't responded. Maybe it has to be formal on the GRAMA form or they won't respond? I am thinking of using the floorplan image that was posted in this thread to identify the hallways for which I am requesting footage to be explicit.


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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by ProvoAggie » March 5th, 2019, 4:06 pm

jpswensen wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 4:05 pm
ProvoAggie wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:36 pm
bluegrouse wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:34 pm
Does anyone have access to the MW report? Did anyone from Nevada allege racial comments? If not, the entire alleged racial component of this mess can be safely put to bed. Can someone find out?
I put in a GRAMA request for it yesterday as well but as of yet I haven't received a response.

EDIT: I just received a response that the university never received an official report and that the statement that was released to the public is the only thing the university has.
I emailed the man who sent me the video from my GRAMA request to ask if there was video footage from the other hallway, but he hasn't responded. Maybe it has to be formal on the GRAMA form or they won't respond? I am thinking of using the floorplan image that was posted in this thread to identify the hallways for which I am requesting footage to be explicit.
From what I've been told, there aren't any security cameras of that hallway.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by AgMan21 » March 5th, 2019, 4:17 pm

Have we requested all communication between USU and the conference, between Nevada and the conference, and between USU and Nevada? That should be available via a GRAMA request. I'm seeing if I can use a CORA request here in Colorado for information from the MW.



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by jimbo » March 5th, 2019, 4:18 pm

Can anyone do a records request from UNR to see if they have anything from NSN or Spectrum?



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Re: Here are the security tapes.

Post by jpswensen » March 5th, 2019, 4:29 pm

freakboy wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 2:27 pm
It looked to me from the security camera video from the press box that Musselman DID shake everybody's hand.
He definitely skipped Ragland and maybe the guy before him
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