NBA Scout

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Re: NBA Scout

Post by NVAggie » March 16th, 2019, 11:58 am

He is a long shot. But he has a chance.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by brownjeans » March 16th, 2019, 12:16 pm

Sam is a shorter version of Joe Ingles. He can handle the ball well - but is not elite at it. He can create for others - but is not elite at it. He is a surprisingly good defender - but not elite at it. And he can shoot really well.
It was tough for Joe Ingles to break into the league, and Joe has improved a lot since. Can Sam do similarly? Who knows.
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Re: NBA Scout

Post by Imakeitrain » March 16th, 2019, 12:35 pm

Merrill is taller than Jimmer and Jaycee. If Jaycee
had been Sam's height he would have probably made an NBA roster.
If Jimmer had Sam's grit and size he would have had a better chance at a longer career. I

If Sam didn't go on a mission he'd have a better chance. 24/ 25 year old rookies aren't what the league is looking for. Therefore out he legitimately has a shot he should leave after this season.

I think Sam stays, makes a summer league team
after next year and then ends up in Europe. Longshot isn't the word id use. More like a chance to compete for the last roster spot and certainly D
League/ Euro level talent.


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by ChicAggie » March 16th, 2019, 12:37 pm

If I've said it once, I've said it 20 times: Sam reminds me a lot of a poor man's Chris Mullin. The way he moves on the court, the way he shoots, the way he passes, the way he is always in the right place at the right time, the way he plays great position defense, his court awareness and smarts. Mullin had a nice, long, successful NBA career. Sam could as well. Particularly if he works on his strength and 3-point consistency this offseason and becomes a 50%, 90%, 40% guy his senior season as a POY contender with a strong A/TO ratio.

The biggest concern for Sam is that he will be an AWFULLY old 6th year senior (adding in his mission years). If only he hadn't gone on a mission . . . .


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by Imakeitrain » March 16th, 2019, 1:18 pm

Why do you all keep using white players that don't even play the same position. I would compare more to a Jerome Robinson or will Barton


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by ineptimusprime » March 16th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Imakeitrain wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 1:18 pm
Why do you all keep using white players that don't even play the same position. I would compare more to a Jerome Robinson or will Barton
What about Malcolm Brogdon as a comp? That might be a good one.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by Imakeitrain » March 16th, 2019, 1:24 pm

ineptimusprime wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 1:20 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 1:18 pm
Why do you all keep using white players that don't even play the same position. I would compare more to a Jerome Robinson or will Barton
What about Malcolm Brogdon as a comp? That might be a good one.
There you go! One is a better defender the other is better offensively both are adequate at doing the other


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by LoveMyAggies » March 16th, 2019, 3:01 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 1:25 am
No way. I absolutely love Sam Merrill's game, but in no way is he a legit NBA prospect. He's a crafty scorer, and he'll have a good career in Europe. NBA teams will do their due diligence and at least take a look at the MWC POY, but Sam is a classic great college player who lacks an NBA body and athleticism. Jaycee Carroll and Jimmer Fredette suffered from the same disease.

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My problem with your assessment is they were 6'1-6'2, and weren't solid defenders. Now with that being said, I've seen athletic players beat sam off the dribble. So he's not a point guard. And really he has the size to potentially be a SG scorer/shooter.

Think JJ Redick, 1 inch shorter than Sam. Sam is also only 1 inch shorter than MJ. I won't even say he's in THAT conversation.

My humble opinion, if sam continues to develop physically, and continues to improve his defense he could be a six-man type (best case scenario on a team like the Jazz OR the Spurs that play team basketball), he thrives in a team setting.

Jeff hornacek had a pocket full of tricks that made him an all-star besides the 3 point shooting, many of those tricks were defensive as well as offensive. If you remember when Hornacek defended MJ it was mostly posted up D, he wasn't terrible at it either.

Now a day's it's all about metrics, if you can watch last years defensive monster Utah Jazz playoff team OR the spurs on a good night when they had Timmy D. The system requires players who have great basketball IQ, Sam is off the charts there. And can thrive in a system. Do you ever wonder why LeBron, Durrant, or many of these other isolation players didn't go play in San Antonio? It's because they don't fit in that system.

The mention about the Dallas Mavericks, that's interesting to me. Also, they don't really have a team identity like the Spurs or Jazz.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by ChicAggie » March 16th, 2019, 6:50 pm

Imakeitrain wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 1:18 pm
Why do you all keep using white players that don't even play the same position. I would compare more to a Jerome Robinson or will Barton
I happen to be referencing the player he reminds me most of. Why do you turn it into a question of race? You probably never even saw Mullin play. I watched about 20 of his college games and scores of his NBA games. Very similar.

Jerome Robinson? Have you ever seen him play? He drives to the hoop and throws it down over the top of other defenders with regularity. Never seen Merrill do that.

I do, however, agree that he does NOT remind me of Jimmer, Jaycee, Grayson Allen, or Kyle Korver. Jaycee actually reminded me a bit of Korver (or vice versa) the way both sprint around the court off the ball to free themselves then turn and are ready shoot immediately off curls and screens.


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by Imakeitrain » March 16th, 2019, 7:06 pm

ChicAggie wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 6:50 pm
Imakeitrain wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 1:18 pm
Why do you all keep using white players that don't even play the same position. I would compare more to a Jerome Robinson or will Barton
I happen to be referencing the player he reminds me most of. Why do you turn it into a question of race? You probably never even saw Mullin play. I watched about 20 of his college games and scores of his NBA games. Very similar.

Jerome Robinson? Have you ever seen him play? He drives to the hoop and throws it down over the top of other defenders with regularity. Never seen Merrill do that.

I do, however, agree that he does NOT remind me of Jimmer, Jaycee, Grayson Allen, or Kyle Korver. Jaycee actually reminded me a bit of Korver (or vice versa) the way both sprint around the court off the ball to free themselves then turn and are ready shoot immediately off curls and screens.
Ok... But your last paragraph was my point. I have seem him play on g league I thought it was similar. I didn't see him really throw it down that game


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by AggieFBObsession » March 16th, 2019, 7:18 pm

The nearest current comparison to Sam Merrill I see is CJ McCollum for Portland.

CJ is quicker, but it's mostly because he's more developed and a better ball handler. Sam is still in college, people. He's got time to develop still.

CJ has a floater just like Sam. Both handle the ball in a similar way against pressure. Sam is probably going to be a better defender. CJ is not a good defender. Sam has more size. He's a better rebounder and arguably a better passer.

People think of CJ of some super quick player like Lillard. Not true at all. He's actually fairly slow compared to most SGs.

He's got the same savy as Sam. I think Sam has the same potential, maybe not quite as much of a scorer, but a better rebounder, passer and role player.

Just my $.02. I just think most of you that think Sam won't be drafted are crazy. I think he'll be a 2nd rounder next year.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by ChicAggie » March 16th, 2019, 7:24 pm

AggieFBObsession wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 7:18 pm
Just my $.02. I just think most of you that think Sam won't be drafted are crazy. I think he'll be a 2nd rounder next year.
I'll take whatever bet you like on that one. There is a HUGE bias against drafting a 4th year senior who will be, what, 24? 25? I think there is a possibility he catches on somewhere as an undrafted FA, but I just don't think he'll get drafted. I truly, truly hope I'm wrong. Would actually love him to get drafted in the 1st round. That would mean he would have improved his 3-point shot significantly and would have gotten a ton of national attention.


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by AggieFBObsession » March 16th, 2019, 7:28 pm

ChicAggie wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 7:24 pm
AggieFBObsession wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 7:18 pm
Just my $.02. I just think most of you that think Sam won't be drafted are crazy. I think he'll be a 2nd rounder next year.
I'll take whatever bet you like on that one. There is a HUGE bias against drafting a 4th year senior who will be, what, 24? 25? I think there is a possibility he catches on somewhere as an undrafted FA, but I just don't think he'll get drafted. I truly, truly hope I'm wrong. Would actually love him to get drafted in the 1st round. That would mean he would have improved his 3-point shot significantly and would have gotten a ton of national attention.
It's possible. Depends on our national attention which means wins, baby, win!

Let me say this... Optimism train, I know... but I think the best two teams in the MWC are Utah State and New Mexico next year and Utah State will be carrying the MWC flag which means national rankings similar to Nevada this year. Can the Aggies handle that kind of attention and hype and still live up to their potential? It's very possible.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by AggieAddict » March 19th, 2019, 9:17 pm

One guy that Sam really reminds me of is Ron Baker. Ron made it to the league for a few years. I think Sam needs to become a better outside shooter but he certainly has a chance to be a role player for a few years in the NBA.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by sockpuppet » March 19th, 2019, 11:18 pm

AggieAddict wrote:
March 19th, 2019, 9:17 pm
One guy that Sam really reminds me of is Ron Baker. Ron made it to the league for a few years. I think Sam needs to become a better outside shooter but he certainly has a chance to be a role player for a few years in the NBA.
Another white guy.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by brownjeans » March 19th, 2019, 11:37 pm

Randy Foye?



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by Mr. Sneelock » March 20th, 2019, 12:12 pm

brownjeans wrote:Randy Foye?
This isn't a bad comparison. The biggest problem for Sam is his age, lack of elite athleticism, and pedestrian measurables suggest that he has likely tapped his potential. NBA teams love guys with huge upside. With Sam, what you see is likely what you'll get.

And yes, everyone keeps comparing him to white guys, but let's not kid ourselves. Sam is about as white and pasty as they come and has a stereotypical white man's game. He definitely plays below the rim. There is a reason nobody compares him to Russell Westbrook, Dwyane Wade, James Harden, or Zach LaVine, another 6'5" guard. It isn't the color of his skin.

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Re: NBA Scout

Post by Mr. Sneelock » March 20th, 2019, 12:24 pm

brownjeans wrote:Randy Foye?
Another possible comparison is a poor man's Brandon Roy.

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Re: NBA Scout

Post by 918AGG » March 20th, 2019, 12:46 pm

Mr. Sneelock is correct. Grayson Allen can explode to the rim, while Sam's game is very college-centric. Grayson Allen is an incredibly gifted athlete... and... have you ever seen Sam's body? There's really no comparing the two as far as NBA prospects go. For the record, I don't believe that either of them have a very bright NBA future.

Here's a fun little bar game: name all of the American born white guys in the NBA... There's an astoundingly small number when you sit back and actually count them.

This back-and-forth is very similar to the "why can't Jimmer Fredette be great in the NBA?" argument. All that I ever heard about Jimmer was that his low-bar in the NBA was Mark Price (which is utterly absurd). Jimmer had a really hard time in the NBA because he got ROASTED on defense and he wasn't gifted enough to be able to reliably create his own shot any better than the other 4 guys on the floor at any given time. Therefore, Jimmer quickly became the corner three guy... and there are so many guys that can do that while bringing a better skill set to the table, that Jimmer really had no chance at a lasting NBA career. Sam is in a similar boat.

Jimmer/Sam aren't fast enough to guard the utterly insane murder's row of guard play in the NBA, and while Sam is a fine collegiate defender, his whole taking charges bit will immediately dry up in the NBA. Everyone is too fast, too experienced, and too good at what they do.

I would put the chances of Sam Merrill making an NBA roster at very, very slim (less than 1%) and his chances at becoming a key rotational NBA player at 0.00%. I hope I'm wrong.


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by ChicAggie » March 20th, 2019, 2:46 pm

918AGG wrote:
March 20th, 2019, 12:46 pm
Mr. Sneelock is correct. Grayson Allen can explode to the rim, while Sam's game is very college-centric. Grayson Allen is an incredibly gifted athlete... and... have you ever seen Sam's body? There's really no comparing the two as far as NBA prospects go. For the record, I don't believe that either of them have a very bright NBA future.

Here's a fun little bar game: name all of the American born white guys in the NBA... There's an astoundingly small number when you sit back and actually count them.

This back-and-forth is very similar to the "why can't Jimmer Fredette be great in the NBA?" argument. All that I ever heard about Jimmer was that his low-bar in the NBA was Mark Price (which is utterly absurd). Jimmer had a really hard time in the NBA because he got ROASTED on defense and he wasn't gifted enough to be able to reliably create his own shot any better than the other 4 guys on the floor at any given time. Therefore, Jimmer quickly became the corner three guy... and there are so many guys that can do that while bringing a better skill set to the table, that Jimmer really had no chance at a lasting NBA career. Sam is in a similar boat.

Jimmer/Sam aren't fast enough to guard the utterly insane murder's row of guard play in the NBA, and while Sam is a fine collegiate defender, his whole taking charges bit will immediately dry up in the NBA. Everyone is too fast, too experienced, and too good at what they do.

I would put the chances of Sam Merrill making an NBA roster at very, very slim (less than 1%) and his chances at becoming a key rotational NBA player at 0.00%. I hope I'm wrong.
American born white guys? I'll bite: Korver, Redick, Hayward, Love, Dekker, Kaminsky, Meyers Leonard, the Zeller brothers, Baker, ..... hmmm, drawing a blank after these guys. Not many.

As far as hearing that Jimmer's low bar was Mark Price, I'm guessing that's a function of living in Utah. I always believed -- and I heard many NBA analysts echo this sentiment -- that Jimmer was literally one of the worst defensive players I have ever seen and strongly believed he would wash out quickly. I thought his HIGH bar was Adam Morrison.

I don't think you can draw ANY comparisons between Sam and Jimmer. Jimmer may have been a more prolific scorer, but every other single aspect of his game was inferior to Sam's. I also don't think we can assume Sam will struggle defensively in the NBA. Speed/quickness is only one small component of defense. You can be a Gary Payton-type defender -- combining great quickness with tenacity -- or you can be a Bruce Bowen-type defender -- playing really smart position defense, knowing your opponent's tendencies, playing the passing lanes, and using guile and effort to make up for a lack of quickness. If you're a Jazz fan, you probably watched Joe Ingles -- literally one of the slowest players in the NBA -- completely take Paul George out of his game in last year's playoffs. He did the same thing to Chris Paul in the playoffs a year earlier. Sam could be a lot like Bowen or Ingles defensively -- certainly a lot more like them than the god-awful defender Jimmer Fredette. Indeed, Sam has already proven to be one of the best defenders in the MWC -- a conference littered with athletic, speedy, 6'6" 2-guards and SFs. Sam has more than held his own defensively against them.


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by NVAggie » March 20th, 2019, 3:02 pm

Sam will earn a lot of money playing basketball somewhere.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by Mr. Sneelock » March 20th, 2019, 4:29 pm

NVAggie wrote:Sam will earn a lot of money playing basketball somewhere.
We can all agree on that. It just won't be in the NBA. And that is OK.

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Re: NBA Scout

Post by 918AGG » March 20th, 2019, 5:19 pm

ChicAggie wrote:
March 20th, 2019, 2:46 pm
918AGG wrote:
March 20th, 2019, 12:46 pm
Mr. Sneelock is correct. Grayson Allen can explode to the rim, while Sam's game is very college-centric. Grayson Allen is an incredibly gifted athlete... and... have you ever seen Sam's body? There's really no comparing the two as far as NBA prospects go. For the record, I don't believe that either of them have a very bright NBA future.

Here's a fun little bar game: name all of the American born white guys in the NBA... There's an astoundingly small number when you sit back and actually count them.

This back-and-forth is very similar to the "why can't Jimmer Fredette be great in the NBA?" argument. All that I ever heard about Jimmer was that his low-bar in the NBA was Mark Price (which is utterly absurd). Jimmer had a really hard time in the NBA because he got ROASTED on defense and he wasn't gifted enough to be able to reliably create his own shot any better than the other 4 guys on the floor at any given time. Therefore, Jimmer quickly became the corner three guy... and there are so many guys that can do that while bringing a better skill set to the table, that Jimmer really had no chance at a lasting NBA career. Sam is in a similar boat.

Jimmer/Sam aren't fast enough to guard the utterly insane murder's row of guard play in the NBA, and while Sam is a fine collegiate defender, his whole taking charges bit will immediately dry up in the NBA. Everyone is too fast, too experienced, and too good at what they do.

I would put the chances of Sam Merrill making an NBA roster at very, very slim (less than 1%) and his chances at becoming a key rotational NBA player at 0.00%. I hope I'm wrong.
American born white guys? I'll bite: Korver, Redick, Hayward, Love, Dekker, Kaminsky, Meyers Leonard, the Zeller brothers, Baker, ..... hmmm, drawing a blank after these guys. Not many.

As far as hearing that Jimmer's low bar was Mark Price, I'm guessing that's a function of living in Utah. I always believed -- and I heard many NBA analysts echo this sentiment -- that Jimmer was literally one of the worst defensive players I have ever seen and strongly believed he would wash out quickly. I thought his HIGH bar was Adam Morrison.

I don't think you can draw ANY comparisons between Sam and Jimmer. Jimmer may have been a more prolific scorer, but every other single aspect of his game was inferior to Sam's. I also don't think we can assume Sam will struggle defensively in the NBA. Speed/quickness is only one small component of defense. You can be a Gary Payton-type defender -- combining great quickness with tenacity -- or you can be a Bruce Bowen-type defender -- playing really smart position defense, knowing your opponent's tendencies, playing the passing lanes, and using guile and effort to make up for a lack of quickness. If you're a Jazz fan, you probably watched Joe Ingles -- literally one of the slowest players in the NBA -- completely take Paul George out of his game in last year's playoffs. He did the same thing to Chris Paul in the playoffs a year earlier. Sam could be a lot like Bowen or Ingles defensively -- certainly a lot more like them than the god-awful defender Jimmer Fredette. Indeed, Sam has already proven to be one of the best defenders in the MWC -- a conference littered with athletic, speedy, 6'6" 2-guards and SFs. Sam has more than held his own defensively against them.
You make some good points here. I only compare Sam and Jimmer to explore some similar limitations. As far as Jinglin' goes, he has about 3 inches in height on Sam and probably more in wingspan... he also has a passable NBA body. I'm a huge Aggie fan, but you'll never be able to talk me into the idea that Sam has a chance of defending CP3 or any of the elite NBA guards. No way in hell.

And as far as Fredette's perceived value goes - yes, the guy that I was talking to was a BYU fan. No, we did not live in Utah. It's important to note that Jimmer was the #10 pick that year - ahead of Klay, Kawhi, Vooch and Jimmy. The "he's going to be a Mark Price at worst" talk was, at least arguably, pervasive.

I love your love of Sam. Go Aggs!


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by AggiesSLC » March 21st, 2019, 6:43 am

Image

New Sport Illustrated mock. Seems like we might be enjoying the final minutes of Queta's career here.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by NVAggie » March 21st, 2019, 7:40 am

On the bright side, it would be interesting to have a reason to cheer for the NBA again.



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Re: NBA Scout

Post by jpswensen » March 21st, 2019, 8:36 am

918AGG wrote:Mr. Sneelock is correct. Grayson Allen can explode to the rim, while Sam's game is very college-centric. Grayson Allen is an incredibly gifted athlete... and... have you ever seen Sam's body? There's really no comparing the two as far as NBA prospects go. For the record, I don't believe that either of them have a very bright NBA future.

Here's a fun little bar game: name all of the American born white guys in the NBA... There's an astoundingly small number when you sit back and actually count them.

This back-and-forth is very similar to the "why can't Jimmer Fredette be great in the NBA?" argument. All that I ever heard about Jimmer was that his low-bar in the NBA was Mark Price (which is utterly absurd). Jimmer had a really hard time in the NBA because he got ROASTED on defense and he wasn't gifted enough to be able to reliably create his own shot any better than the other 4 guys on the floor at any given time. Therefore, Jimmer quickly became the corner three guy... and there are so many guys that can do that while bringing a better skill set to the table, that Jimmer really had no chance at a lasting NBA career. Sam is in a similar boat.

Jimmer/Sam aren't fast enough to guard the utterly insane murder's row of guard play in the NBA, and while Sam is a fine collegiate defender, his whole taking charges bit will immediately dry up in the NBA. Everyone is too fast, too experienced, and too good at what they do.

I would put the chances of Sam Merrill making an NBA roster at very, very slim (less than 1%) and his chances at becoming a key rotational NBA player at 0.00%. I hope I'm wrong.
This actually was enlightening and made me try to think of the last time I saw a charge called in an NBA game. I can’t actually recall a charge in the last 4-5 games I watched.


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Re: NBA Scout

Post by CaptainChaos » March 21st, 2019, 8:41 am

NVAggie wrote:
March 21st, 2019, 7:40 am
On the bright side, it would be interesting to have a reason to cheer for the NBA again.
It's supposed to be a pretty bad draft class too, so if he gets projected first round it'd probably be a good opportunity for him to get some guaranteed money and a legit shot.



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