Justin Bean

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bluegrouse
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Re: Justin Bean

Post by bluegrouse » December 5th, 2019, 12:47 pm

We’ve got Big Queta in the stands. I think we need to add some Jumping Beans. Come on students. Make it happen.



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Re: Justin Bean

Post by Aggie-Man » December 5th, 2019, 1:09 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 11:13 am
He has been a pleasant surprise. And I mean no disrespect to Bean, but he is well coached. I don't know if he would be the same player under a lesser coach like Duryea.
None of these guys would be.
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ChicAggie
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Re: Justin Bean

Post by ChicAggie » December 5th, 2019, 1:13 pm

IdaAg93 wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 12:40 pm
Maybe I should know what that means, but what does that mean?
"Win Shares" is an estimate of the number of wins contributed to a team by an individual player taking into account both offensive and defensive production.


"Good is the enemy of great.” ~ Jim Collins

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brownjeans
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Re: Justin Bean

Post by brownjeans » December 5th, 2019, 1:42 pm

ChicAggie wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:13 pm
IdaAg93 wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 12:40 pm
Maybe I should know what that means, but what does that mean?
"Win Shares" is an estimate of the number of wins contributed to a team by an individual player taking into account both offensive and defensive production.
This stat has always seemed subjective to me (antithesis of the purpose of a statistic).

Estimate based on what data? How does one score "wins" in a way that can be assigned to a single player's contribution? How does one player's win shares compare to another's when they play on completely different teams against completely different opponents?

Maybe if I knew the stat better, I wouldn't feel so dismissive of it.



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Re: Justin Bean

Post by ChicAggie » December 5th, 2019, 1:57 pm

brownjeans wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:42 pm
ChicAggie wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:13 pm
IdaAg93 wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 12:40 pm
Maybe I should know what that means, but what does that mean?
"Win Shares" is an estimate of the number of wins contributed to a team by an individual player taking into account both offensive and defensive production.
This stat has always seemed subjective to me (antithesis of the purpose of a statistic).

Estimate based on what data? How does one score "wins" in a way that can be assigned to a single player's contribution? How does one player's win shares compare to another's when they play on completely different teams against completely different opponents?

Maybe if I knew the stat better, I wouldn't feel so dismissive of it.
You and I feel the opposite about these types of statistics. While there is certainly some amount of subjectivity in determining how much weight should be apportioned to various measurable individual on-court contributions in determining how many "win shares" that individual player has contributed, the statisticians who have formulated various advanced metrics have spent a lot of time running analyses to determine just how much credit to apportion to measurable contributions. This is MUCH more valuable to me than simply looking at traditional statistics like points, rebounds, assists, etc. -- which can all be accumulated in very inefficient and detrimental ways.

Read the following if you have any interest in how the college Win Share statistic was formulated:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/about/ws.html


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brownjeans
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Re: Justin Bean

Post by brownjeans » December 5th, 2019, 2:39 pm

ChicAggie wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:57 pm
brownjeans wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:42 pm
ChicAggie wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:13 pm
IdaAg93 wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 12:40 pm
Maybe I should know what that means, but what does that mean?
"Win Shares" is an estimate of the number of wins contributed to a team by an individual player taking into account both offensive and defensive production.
This stat has always seemed subjective to me (antithesis of the purpose of a statistic).

Estimate based on what data? How does one score "wins" in a way that can be assigned to a single player's contribution? How does one player's win shares compare to another's when they play on completely different teams against completely different opponents?

Maybe if I knew the stat better, I wouldn't feel so dismissive of it.
You and I feel the opposite about these types of statistics. While there is certainly some amount of subjectivity in determining how much weight should be apportioned to various measurable individual on-court contributions in determining how many "win shares" that individual player has contributed, the statisticians who have formulated various advanced metrics have spent a lot of time running analyses to determine just how much credit to apportion to measurable contributions. This is MUCH more valuable to me than simply looking at traditional statistics like points, rebounds, assists, etc. -- which can all be accumulated in very inefficient and detrimental ways.

Read the following if you have any interest in how the college Win Share statistic was formulated:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/about/ws.html
I should be clear, I'm only speaking about win shares. Not "these types of statistics" - whatever that means.
I was wondering how win shares is formulated and whether that formulation has any value when comparing players across teams. After reading how the statistic was formulated (thanks for the link), I think it's valuable in comparing one player to other players on the same team. It's very interesting to see Bean is clearly the leader in Win Shares on our team.

But it appears to me that Win Shares have limited value when we compare players from one team to another. For example, how good Bean is to say Derrick Alston or Terrell Gomez. The reason I say this is because of the massive variability that is introduced by taking a team result (Ws/Ls) and applying it to individuals. All the other players and coaches would have a large influence on the individual's score - which I guess these things have some influence on other statistics too, but this seems more direct. I mean Derrick's team has half the wins of USU and Terrell's team has half again on top of that.
It also seems that there is a lot of variability in the value of a given W/L and little is done to compare the quality of the schedule by which the Ws/Ls are earned.



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