JayCee Carroll-Sports Hero to many in Spain

lionhead · Post by **lionhead** » February 17th, 2020, 4:48 pm

I just returned from an extended vacation in Mexico. I met a really nice young man from Barcelona. When he found out I was from Utah he asked me about his two favorite Basketball players.... Ricky Rubio and Jaycee Carroll. He thinks Carroll is the best shooter that has ever played for Real Madrid. He has always wished he played for Barcelona. It might be a stretch to say Jaycee is the best ever, but it was very cool to hear what a national sports star he is in Spain. Go Aggies!

dirtnsnow · Post by **dirtnsnow** » February 17th, 2020, 10:24 pm

Not as much of a stretch as you think. He makes the list of top 10 NCAA shooters of all time in at least a couple of rankings:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndicatio ... y.amp.html

www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/articl ... rs-century

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » February 17th, 2020, 11:43 pm

The amazing detail of Jaycee's shooting prowess is how many times he crisscrossed the floor on each possession before catching a pass around a screen and turning to shoot all in the same motion. It's not as though he was camping out waiting for a big man to get doubled and finding him wide open.

FeartheFro · Post by **FeartheFro** » February 18th, 2020, 4:34 pm

I feel totally confident in saying that Jaycee Carroll logged more game miles on the court than any Aggie before him and any Aggie since he played. It was amazing to see his constant state of motion. He would have been a pain in the (I can't express myself without swearing) to guard.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mcaggie1 · Post by **mcaggie1** » February 18th, 2020, 6:21 pm

Don't let the Booger boarders see these rankings. Their precious jimmer is just nowhere to be found. BOOO HOOOO. They will have a mass freakout.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » February 18th, 2020, 9:28 pm

mcaggie1 wrote: ↑
February 18th, 2020, 6:21 pm
Don't let the Booger boarders see these rankings. Their precious jimmer is just nowhere to be found. BOOO HOOOO. They will have a mass freakout.

Eh. BYU fans are like herpes... Sure, they're never going away, but you can ignore them unless they decide to flare up.

Post by **treesap32** » February 19th, 2020, 7:43 am

FeartheFro wrote: ↑
February 18th, 2020, 4:34 pm
I feel totally confident in saying that Jaycee Carroll logged more game miles on the court than any Aggie before him and any Aggie since he played. It was amazing to see his constant state of motion. He would have been a pain in the (I can't express myself without swearing) to guard.

I guarantee that is true.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » February 19th, 2020, 10:03 am

FeartheFro wrote: ↑
February 18th, 2020, 4:34 pm
I feel totally confident in saying that Jaycee Carroll logged more game miles on the court than any Aggie before him and any Aggie since he played. It was amazing to see his constant state of motion. He would have been a pain in the (I can't express myself without swearing) to guard.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It would have been fun to have a tracking device in his shoes. He ran side to side constantly on offense to get open shots at the 3 point line. It was amazing how good of shape he was in. He could play the 36-38 minutes and still look fresh. One of my all time favorite players to watch.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » February 19th, 2020, 10:31 am

treesap32 wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 7:43 am

FeartheFro wrote: ↑
February 18th, 2020, 4:34 pm
I feel totally confident in saying that Jaycee Carroll logged more game miles on the court than any Aggie before him and any Aggie since he played. It was amazing to see his constant state of motion. He would have been a pain in the (I can't express myself without swearing) to guard.

I guarantee that is true.

I was extolling the virtues of Jaycee to my wife last night (she never saw him play... she's an Aggie convert as of 2013), and I got into discussion of his performance at Utah State and those articles about best 3 pt shooters in the NCAA. I pulled up treesap's video on YouTube of Jaycee dropping 44 on NMSU, but the pixels are real, man. I then googled his name, and a little Wikipedia description box pops up, and states, in part, "...he was best known for his scoring prowess, shooting ability, shooting range, and endurance."

As I'm fanboying over one of the greatest Aggies of all time, she asks me, "If he was so good, why did he never end up in the NBA?" She knows he's had an excellent career at Real Madrid. I've shared a story in the past about how we made some friends from Malaga, and when we brought up his name, they loved/hated him because of how good he is. They had nothing but good to say.

So, I shared what I recalled: he's amazing offensively, but wasn't great defensively. Is that accurate, and/or is there more besides that?

bwcrc · Post by **bwcrc** » February 19th, 2020, 10:45 am

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 10:31 am

treesap32 wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 7:43 am

FeartheFro wrote: ↑
February 18th, 2020, 4:34 pm
I feel totally confident in saying that Jaycee Carroll logged more game miles on the court than any Aggie before him and any Aggie since he played. It was amazing to see his constant state of motion. He would have been a pain in the (I can't express myself without swearing) to guard.

I guarantee that is true.
I was extolling the virtues of Jaycee to my wife last night (she never saw him play... she's an Aggie convert as of 2013), and I got into discussion of his performance at Utah State and those articles about best 3 pt shooters in the NCAA. I pulled up treesap's video on YouTube of Jaycee dropping 44 on NMSU, but the pixels are real, man. I then googled his name, and a little Wikipedia description box pops up, and states, in part, "...he was best known for his scoring prowess, shooting ability, shooting range, and endurance."

As I'm fanboying over one of the greatest Aggies of all time, she asks me, "If he was so good, why did he never end up in the NBA?" She knows he's had an excellent career at Real Madrid. I've shared a story in the past about how we made some friends from Malaga, and when we brought up his name, they loved/hated him because of how good he is. They had nothing but good to say.

So, I shared what I recalled: he's amazing offensively, but wasn't great defensively. Is that accurate, and/or is there more besides that?

If I remember correctly, Stew described Jaycee's defensive prowess when he first arrived at USU as not being able to guard a chair. He improved greatly over his career. The two of the biggest knocks against him for the NBA I think were (1) his height, he was not tall enough to be a shooting guard and lacked the handles to be a point guard and (2) he came from lowly USU, compared to someone like JJ Redick from Duke, who was also viewed as being more athletic.

dirtnsnow · Post by **dirtnsnow** » February 19th, 2020, 10:47 am

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... e.amp.html

From his point of view. A good read.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » February 19th, 2020, 11:01 am

dirtnsnow wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 10:47 am
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... e.amp.html

From his point of view. A good read.

An excellent article, thank you.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » February 19th, 2020, 11:04 am

Didn't pass the "look test". Maybe this needs to be moved to the Sandbox?

Seriously though, I attributed it to not being from a bigger name school and not being an experienced PG. He was a little small to be a 2 in the NBA and not enough of a PG to play the 1. Nowhere to put him in an excel spreadsheet modeling a lineup.

Still, I'd take him over Reddick any day and I always thought some team like San Antonio that thinks outside the box would find a place for him to be a 15 minute guy shooting a few threes each night.

Post by **Aglicious** » February 19th, 2020, 11:05 am

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 10:31 am

treesap32 wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 7:43 am

FeartheFro wrote: ↑
February 18th, 2020, 4:34 pm
I feel totally confident in saying that Jaycee Carroll logged more game miles on the court than any Aggie before him and any Aggie since he played. It was amazing to see his constant state of motion. He would have been a pain in the (I can't express myself without swearing) to guard.

I guarantee that is true.
I was extolling the virtues of Jaycee to my wife last night (she never saw him play... she's an Aggie convert as of 2013), and I got into discussion of his performance at Utah State and those articles about best 3 pt shooters in the NCAA. I pulled up treesap's video on YouTube of Jaycee dropping 44 on NMSU, but the pixels are real, man. I then googled his name, and a little Wikipedia description box pops up, and states, in part, "...he was best known for his scoring prowess, shooting ability, shooting range, and endurance."

As I'm fanboying over one of the greatest Aggies of all time, she asks me, "If he was so good, why did he never end up in the NBA?" She knows he's had an excellent career at Real Madrid. I've shared a story in the past about how we made some friends from Malaga, and when we brought up his name, they loved/hated him because of how good he is. They had nothing but good to say.

So, I shared what I recalled: he's amazing offensively, but wasn't great defensively. Is that accurate, and/or is there more besides that?

This was true of him during his time as an Aggie. Stew used to say he couldn't guard a chair but I would say he wasn't that bad. Another knock on him was that he had below average ball handling skills, especially for a PG which is what he was being projected to play at the next level.

Jaycee just spoke about this stuff in a recent Aggie Legends podcast and has also commented on it in numerous articles written since he has been with Real Madrid. He points out that the NBA was very much driven by body type/size back then and that it wasn't until Steph Curry came along and busted the mold that it was accepted that a 6'-2" or 6'-3" sharp shooter could make it in the league. It's really too bad that door wasn't kicked down prior to Jaycee graduating because I think things would have been much different for him. He comments about his ball handling skills and the fact that some of that perception was due to the fact that he wasn't asked to play PG at USU by design so he could run free and be fed the ball in spots on the floor where he could score. He plays that same sort of role for Real Madrid now but in his earlier Euro career he handled the ball quite a bit and was much better at it than what many thought during his college career.

When asked about his defense he says that his dad emphasized that he would always have a spot on a team if he could score the ball so that's why he adopted such an insane work ethic for shooting. It is also much harder to practice defense by yourself.

He also said that after the NBA started changing and he was having so much success in Spain, that a few teams in the NBA did come calling again but he felt like that ship had sailed and he was happy with where he was at.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » February 19th, 2020, 11:26 am

Aglicious wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 11:05 am

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 10:31 am

treesap32 wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 7:43 am

FeartheFro wrote: ↑
February 18th, 2020, 4:34 pm
I feel totally confident in saying that Jaycee Carroll logged more game miles on the court than any Aggie before him and any Aggie since he played. It was amazing to see his constant state of motion. He would have been a pain in the (I can't express myself without swearing) to guard.

I guarantee that is true.
I was extolling the virtues of Jaycee to my wife last night (she never saw him play... she's an Aggie convert as of 2013), and I got into discussion of his performance at Utah State and those articles about best 3 pt shooters in the NCAA. I pulled up treesap's video on YouTube of Jaycee dropping 44 on NMSU, but the pixels are real, man. I then googled his name, and a little Wikipedia description box pops up, and states, in part, "...he was best known for his scoring prowess, shooting ability, shooting range, and endurance."

As I'm fanboying over one of the greatest Aggies of all time, she asks me, "If he was so good, why did he never end up in the NBA?" She knows he's had an excellent career at Real Madrid. I've shared a story in the past about how we made some friends from Malaga, and when we brought up his name, they loved/hated him because of how good he is. They had nothing but good to say.

So, I shared what I recalled: he's amazing offensively, but wasn't great defensively. Is that accurate, and/or is there more besides that?
This was true of him during his time as an Aggie. Stew used to say he couldn't guard a chair but I would say he wasn't that bad. Another knock on him was that he had below average ball handling skills, especially for a PG which is what he was being projected to play at the next level.

Jaycee just spoke about this stuff in a recent Aggie Legends podcast and has also commented on it in numerous articles written since he has been with Real Madrid. He points out that the NBA was very much driven by body type/size back then and that it wasn't until Steph Curry came along and busted the mold that it was accepted that a 6'-2" or 6'-3" sharp shooter could make it in the league. It's really too bad that door wasn't kicked down prior to Jaycee graduating because I think things would have been much different for him. He comments about his ball handling skills and the fact that some of that perception was due to the fact that he wasn't asked to play PG at USU by design so he could run free and be fed the ball in spots on the floor where he could score. He plays that same sort of role for Real Madrid now but in his earlier Euro career he handled the ball quite a bit and was much better at it than what many thought during his college career.

When asked about his defense he says that his dad emphasized that he would always have a spot on a team if he could score the ball so that's why he adopted such an insane work ethic for shooting. It is also much harder to practice defense by yourself.

He also said that after the NBA started changing and he was having so much success in Spain, that a few teams in the NBA did come calling again but he felt like that ship had sailed and he was happy with where he was at.

Thanks for all the info and explanation!

I had mentioned to my wife that I thought height was a factor because he was only 6'2", but she's a Suns fan and she hit back that Steve Nash was short. So, I looked up Steph Curry's height and saw he was only 6'3", just like Steve Nash... Two very clear marks against my height argument. Then I figured I was wrong about that because I don't know basketball well; I just love the Aggies.

kofdog · Post by **kofdog** » February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm

So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.

pilotaggie · Post by **pilotaggie** » February 19th, 2020, 12:08 pm

I doubt he would ever say it but I think the experience Spencer had with Europe and the NBA probably played a part in Jaycee figuring it was too late to try his luck.

While we are on the subject. I will never forget early on at USU his freshman year, may have even been a preseason game. Jaycee came off a screen to take a wide open three from the corner by all the students. As soon as he went up for that shot there was an audible groan from the students followed by celebration as it went in.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » February 19th, 2020, 12:13 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.

No one worked harder for his shot than Jaycee. He put tremendous pressure on whomever was guarding him because he was like a hummingbird darting in and around screens to get the ball.

Jimmer Fredette? He became notorious because he would jack it up from 35 feet five times in a row and if one went in then the crowd and the announcers would scream in amazement.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » February 19th, 2020, 12:41 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.

I didn't listen, so I can't speak to the comments. But my biggest question is what does "better" mean?

I recall the team getting better after Jaycee left. I don't know if there were a lot of other factors involved, but what I've heard is that the whole team had to improve and become better rather than having Jaycee as a crutch to get them out of every situation. But I don't think that Sam has the same ability to score so many points and single-handedly win games for us. Many of the teams we've played have had a really remarkable scorer like Jaycee (e.g., Mays from LSU, Ford from SMC), and that makes playing against them so difficult.

Obviously Sam hasn't scored as many points, or had as many high scoring games that Jaycee had. So if the comparison about "better" is who can score more, it's obviously Jaycee. Not having listened, my assumption about "better" relates to all-around performance. Maybe the point was that Sam could have a terrible night scoring, but still be a huge benefit to the team defensively, create plays, make assists, and find the right situation to get it where it will score. If you rewatch games and listen to announcers, you hear them say many of the same things about Sam over and over: he just does everything right, he's versatile (screens, 3s, FTs, mid-range, even occasionally posting up, drawing the foul, assists, making plays, passing up good opportunities for himself for better opportunities from his teammates), get the ball in his hands because even if doesn't score it he'll make something happen to enable a play, any team would love a player like Sam on their team, etc. Maybe the argument of "Sam is better" is because Sam helps make the team around him better.

Another potential exploration about being "better" might relate to post-collegiate/professional play. What are the chances of Sam making it to the NBA? Does he have more stock in that regard? Clearly Jaycee had a lucrative and successful professional career in Europe, mostly due to his incredible work ethic and offensive prowess. At this point, I think that Sam can only hope to have such a successful and decorated professional career. And maybe he will! I think that will depend on what opportunities open up to him, and what decisions/risks he takes in his career.

Look, Jaycee Carroll was and is amazing. If the point being made was that he was lazy and just bombed in 3s all day without doing anything to make them happen, that's obviously incorrect. I really like Florida's comparison to a hummingbird, because of how apt it is. Jaycee is one of the greatest Aggies of all time, and always will be.

Lightbringer · Post by **Lightbringer** » February 19th, 2020, 3:17 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:41 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.
I didn't listen, so I can't speak to the comments. But my biggest question is what does "better" mean?

I recall the team getting better after Jaycee left. I don't know if there were a lot of other factors involved, but what I've heard is that the whole team had to improve and become better rather than having Jaycee as a crutch to get them out of every situation. But I don't think that Sam has the same ability to score so many points and single-handedly win games for us. Many of the teams we've played have had a really remarkable scorer like Jaycee (e.g., Mays from LSU, Ford from SMC), and that makes playing against them so difficult.

Obviously Sam hasn't scored as many points, or had as many high scoring games that Jaycee had. So if the comparison about "better" is who can score more, it's obviously Jaycee. Not having listened, my assumption about "better" relates to all-around performance. Maybe the point was that Sam could have a terrible night scoring, but still be a huge benefit to the team defensively, create plays, make assists, and find the right situation to get it where it will score. If you rewatch games and listen to announcers, you hear them say many of the same things about Sam over and over: he just does everything right, he's versatile (screens, 3s, FTs, mid-range, even occasionally posting up, drawing the foul, assists, making plays, passing up good opportunities for himself for better opportunities from his teammates), get the ball in his hands because even if doesn't score it he'll make something happen to enable a play, any team would love a player like Sam on their team, etc. Maybe the argument of "Sam is better" is because Sam helps make the team around him better.

Another potential exploration about being "better" might relate to post-collegiate/professional play. What are the chances of Sam making it to the NBA? Does he have more stock in that regard? Clearly Jaycee had a lucrative and successful professional career in Europe, mostly due to his incredible work ethic and offensive prowess. At this point, I think that Sam can only hope to have such a successful and decorated professional career. And maybe he will! I think that will depend on what opportunities open up to him, and what decisions/risks he takes in his career.

Look, Jaycee Carroll was and is amazing. If the point being made was that he was lazy and just bombed in 3s all day without doing anything to make them happen, that's obviously incorrect. I really like Florida's comparison to a hummingbird, because of how apt it is. Jaycee is one of the greatest Aggies of all time, and always will be.

I caught the tail end of this, so I may not have heard everything. But If I heard correctly, Eric(?) had 1. JC and 2. Sam. While Ajay didn't even have JC in his top 5 (again, I didn't hear the whole thing, so maybe I'm wrong...).

I think you could definitely make an argument for Sam being the better player (defensively, assists, free throw %, tougher competition, etc.). However, I think that Ajay was just arguing for arguments sake, but I found it somewhat annoying (and baffling) that he wouldn't include JC in the top 5. But that seems to be his shtick...

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » February 19th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:41 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.
I didn't listen, so I can't speak to the comments. But my biggest question is what does "better" mean?

I recall the team getting better after Jaycee left. I don't know if there were a lot of other factors involved, but what I've heard is that the whole team had to improve and become better rather than having Jaycee as a crutch to get them out of every situation. But I don't think that Sam has the same ability to score so many points and single-handedly win games for us. Many of the teams we've played have had a really remarkable scorer like Jaycee (e.g., Mays from LSU, Ford from SMC), and that makes playing against them so difficult.

Obviously Sam hasn't scored as many points, or had as many high scoring games that Jaycee had. So if the comparison about "better" is who can score more, it's obviously Jaycee. Not having listened, my assumption about "better" relates to all-around performance. Maybe the point was that Sam could have a terrible night scoring, but still be a huge benefit to the team defensively, create plays, make assists, and find the right situation to get it where it will score. If you rewatch games and listen to announcers, you hear them say many of the same things about Sam over and over: he just does everything right, he's versatile (screens, 3s, FTs, mid-range, even occasionally posting up, drawing the foul, assists, making plays, passing up good opportunities for himself for better opportunities from his teammates), get the ball in his hands because even if doesn't score it he'll make something happen to enable a play, any team would love a player like Sam on their team, etc. Maybe the argument of "Sam is better" is because Sam helps make the team around him better.

Another potential exploration about being "better" might relate to post-collegiate/professional play. What are the chances of Sam making it to the NBA? Does he have more stock in that regard? Clearly Jaycee had a lucrative and successful professional career in Europe, mostly due to his incredible work ethic and offensive prowess. At this point, I think that Sam can only hope to have such a successful and decorated professional career. And maybe he will! I think that will depend on what opportunities open up to him, and what decisions/risks he takes in his career.

Look, Jaycee Carroll was and is amazing. If the point being made was that he was lazy and just bombed in 3s all day without doing anything to make them happen, that's obviously incorrect. I really like Florida's comparison to a hummingbird, because of how apt it is. Jaycee is one of the greatest Aggies of all time, and always will be.

Not to hi-jack a thread here, but consider a scenario:

There are 12 seconds left in a game and USU is down a point and is throwing the ball inbound from under the opponent's basket. Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?

Carroll?
Merrill?
Quayle?
Butler?
Brown?
Rock?
Nelson?
Butterfield?
Grant?
Sims?

Edit: Oh, and.... no timeouts left.

Also - add Saxon to the list

UStateTim · Post by **UStateTim** » February 19th, 2020, 4:20 pm

I don't want to get roasted but I do think Sam is better than Jaycee overall. Jaycee is a better scorer but I believe Sam is a better ball handler, passer/playmaker, and defender. Sam is also going to finish his USU career top 2 in points and assists in school history.

Side note to the legendary status of Jaycee Carroll: Luka Doncic tweeted last year that Jaycee Carroll is the best shooter he's ever seen.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » February 19th, 2020, 4:24 pm

I like this ridiculous scenario.

Nelson, Carroll, Merrill.

My thinking is that 12 seconds is a lot of time. I like Spencer Nelson in this scenario to take it in, aggressively. He finishes at the hoop or gets fouled in the process. If Nelson has no chance, or if they don't get the ball down the court quickly enough (now they're low on time OR defense is well set to really stifle a drive to the hoop), I want Jaycee to take the shot. Sam is number 3 on my list. I don't want him to shoot the 3 right here... I want him to draw a foul and get to the line.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » February 19th, 2020, 4:34 pm

UStateTim wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:20 pm
I don't want to get roasted but I do think Sam is better than Jaycee overall. Jaycee is a better scorer but I believe Sam is a better ball handler, passer/playmaker, and defender. Sam is also going to finish his USU career top 2 in points and assists in school history.

Side note to the legendary status of Jaycee Carroll: Luka Doncic tweeted last year that Jaycee Carroll is the best shooter he's ever seen.

Remarkably, Carroll is still ahead of Merrill on the all-time steals list (by two steals). I know Carroll gets knocked a bit for his defense, but he is #7 all time in steals. He wasn't a complete torrero out there. I realize the high number comes from starting and playing the majority of minutes over a four year career, but it's still impressive. Although I don't see it anywhere on the all-time lists, I would bet Merrill has drawn more offensive fouls than Carroll. Carroll is also #12 on the all-time list for rebounds. He was one of the best rebounding guards I have seen.

pilotaggie · Post by **pilotaggie** » February 19th, 2020, 5:37 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:41 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.
I didn't listen, so I can't speak to the comments. But my biggest question is what does "better" mean?

I recall the team getting better after Jaycee left. I don't know if there were a lot of other factors involved, but what I've heard is that the whole team had to improve and become better rather than having Jaycee as a crutch to get them out of every situation. But I don't think that Sam has the same ability to score so many points and single-handedly win games for us. Many of the teams we've played have had a really remarkable scorer like Jaycee (e.g., Mays from LSU, Ford from SMC), and that makes playing against them so difficult.

Obviously Sam hasn't scored as many points, or had as many high scoring games that Jaycee had. So if the comparison about "better" is who can score more, it's obviously Jaycee. Not having listened, my assumption about "better" relates to all-around performance. Maybe the point was that Sam could have a terrible night scoring, but still be a huge benefit to the team defensively, create plays, make assists, and find the right situation to get it where it will score. If you rewatch games and listen to announcers, you hear them say many of the same things about Sam over and over: he just does everything right, he's versatile (screens, 3s, FTs, mid-range, even occasionally posting up, drawing the foul, assists, making plays, passing up good opportunities for himself for better opportunities from his teammates), get the ball in his hands because even if doesn't score it he'll make something happen to enable a play, any team would love a player like Sam on their team, etc. Maybe the argument of "Sam is better" is because Sam helps make the team around him better.

Another potential exploration about being "better" might relate to post-collegiate/professional play. What are the chances of Sam making it to the NBA? Does he have more stock in that regard? Clearly Jaycee had a lucrative and successful professional career in Europe, mostly due to his incredible work ethic and offensive prowess. At this point, I think that Sam can only hope to have such a successful and decorated professional career. And maybe he will! I think that will depend on what opportunities open up to him, and what decisions/risks he takes in his career.

Look, Jaycee Carroll was and is amazing. If the point being made was that he was lazy and just bombed in 3s all day without doing anything to make them happen, that's obviously incorrect. I really like Florida's comparison to a hummingbird, because of how apt it is. Jaycee is one of the greatest Aggies of all time, and always will be.
Not to hi-jack a thread here, but consider a scenario:

There are 12 seconds left in a game and USU is down a point and is throwing the ball inbound from under the opponent's basket. Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?

Carroll?
Merrill?
Quayle?
Butler?
Brown?
Rock?
Nelson?
Butterfield?
Grant?
Sims?

Edit: Oh, and.... no timeouts left.

Also - add Saxon to the list

SPICER! That guy made some huge shots (including free throws) when we needed them more than a couple times.

Post by **Aglicious** » February 19th, 2020, 5:59 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Not to hi-jack a thread here, but consider a scenario:

There are 12 seconds left in a game and USU is down a point and is throwing the ball inbound from under the opponent's basket. Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?

Carroll?
Merrill?
Quayle?
Butler?
Brown?
Rock?
Nelson?
Butterfield?
Grant?
Sims?

Edit: Oh, and.... no timeouts left.

Also - add Saxon to the list

Hmmm.....12 seconds is forever but if this scenario is to both bring the ball up court and generate their own shot or an open look for a teammate then give me:

1. Saxon - dude is going to score, dish, or get fouled - his strength with the ball gives him the edge
2. M. Brown/B. Rock - both had to be respected enough to be stopped first and would likely find the open man
3. Penigar - good enough ball handler and was a load to handle for any defender
3. Quayle - again strong with the ball and smart decision maker, may pull up in your face or go to the hoop
4. Merrill - not the tops as far as ball handling and tends to be easily trapped (no timeouts scares me here) but if his teammates could help with a screen or two he could get a good look.
5. B. Pane - a definite threat to break his man down and take it all the way to the hoop or get fouled where he was an excellent FT shooter

I thought about Nelson and Wesley which could both handle the ball down the court rather easily (especially considering the 4 that would be covering them) but beating a man in a face up situation was not exactly their strength. Both were great back-to-the-basket scorers which may not fit the scenario very well where you need a little space and time to operate with your back to the basket.

Jaycee is who I would select #1 to take a shot but only after he had run 1/4 mile around the court losing his man. I don't really like him in a scenario where he is asked to take the ball up the court and generate his own shot.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » February 19th, 2020, 6:25 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:41 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.
I didn't listen, so I can't speak to the comments. But my biggest question is what does "better" mean?

I recall the team getting better after Jaycee left. I don't know if there were a lot of other factors involved, but what I've heard is that the whole team had to improve and become better rather than having Jaycee as a crutch to get them out of every situation. But I don't think that Sam has the same ability to score so many points and single-handedly win games for us. Many of the teams we've played have had a really remarkable scorer like Jaycee (e.g., Mays from LSU, Ford from SMC), and that makes playing against them so difficult.

Obviously Sam hasn't scored as many points, or had as many high scoring games that Jaycee had. So if the comparison about "better" is who can score more, it's obviously Jaycee. Not having listened, my assumption about "better" relates to all-around performance. Maybe the point was that Sam could have a terrible night scoring, but still be a huge benefit to the team defensively, create plays, make assists, and find the right situation to get it where it will score. If you rewatch games and listen to announcers, you hear them say many of the same things about Sam over and over: he just does everything right, he's versatile (screens, 3s, FTs, mid-range, even occasionally posting up, drawing the foul, assists, making plays, passing up good opportunities for himself for better opportunities from his teammates), get the ball in his hands because even if doesn't score it he'll make something happen to enable a play, any team would love a player like Sam on their team, etc. Maybe the argument of "Sam is better" is because Sam helps make the team around him better.

Another potential exploration about being "better" might relate to post-collegiate/professional play. What are the chances of Sam making it to the NBA? Does he have more stock in that regard? Clearly Jaycee had a lucrative and successful professional career in Europe, mostly due to his incredible work ethic and offensive prowess. At this point, I think that Sam can only hope to have such a successful and decorated professional career. And maybe he will! I think that will depend on what opportunities open up to him, and what decisions/risks he takes in his career.

Look, Jaycee Carroll was and is amazing. If the point being made was that he was lazy and just bombed in 3s all day without doing anything to make them happen, that's obviously incorrect. I really like Florida's comparison to a hummingbird, because of how apt it is. Jaycee is one of the greatest Aggies of all time, and always will be.
Not to hi-jack a thread here, but consider a scenario:

There are 12 seconds left in a game and USU is down a point and is throwing the ball inbound from under the opponent's basket. Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?

Carroll?
Merrill?
Quayle?
Butler?
Brown?
Rock?
Nelson?
Butterfield?
Grant?
Sims?

Edit: Oh, and.... no timeouts left.

Also - add Saxon to the list

Jay Goodman?
Kendall Youngblood?
Alan Gordon?
Kevin Nixon?
Reid Newey?

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » February 19th, 2020, 7:58 pm

Aglicious wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 5:59 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Not to hi-jack a thread here, but consider a scenario:

There are 12 seconds left in a game and USU is down a point and is throwing the ball inbound from under the opponent's basket. Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?

Carroll?
Merrill?
Quayle?
Butler?
Brown?
Rock?
Nelson?
Butterfield?
Grant?
Sims?

Edit: Oh, and.... no timeouts left.

Also - add Saxon to the list
Hmmm.....12 seconds is forever but if this scenario is to both bring the ball up court and generate their own shot or an open look for a teammate then give me:

1. Saxon - dude is going to score, dish, or get fouled - his strength with the ball gives him the edge
2. M. Brown/B. Rock - both had to be respected enough to be stopped first and would likely find the open man
3. Penigar - good enough ball handler and was a load to handle for any defender
3. Quayle - again strong with the ball and smart decision maker, may pull up in your face or go to the hoop
4. Merrill - not the tops as far as ball handling and tends to be easily trapped (no timeouts scares me here) but if his teammates could help with a screen or two he could get a good look.
5. B. Pane - a definite threat to break his man down and take it all the way to the hoop or get fouled where he was an excellent FT shooter

I thought about Nelson and Wesley which could both handle the ball down the court rather easily (especially considering the 4 that would be covering them) but beating a man in a face up situation was not exactly their strength. Both were great back-to-the-basket scorers which may not fit the scenario very well where you need a little space and time to operate with your back to the basket.

Jaycee is who I would select #1 to take a shot but only after he had run 1/4 mile around the court losing his man. I don't really like him in a scenario where he is asked to take the ball up the court and generate his own shot.

Only because Stew didn't give Jaycee the ball in that scenario. Have you watched his Europe highlights creating his own shot? If its an isolation play Jaycee is up there with all those guys. I think Quayle or Merrill too in that situation.

frankiedoeshollywood · Post by **frankiedoeshollywood** » February 19th, 2020, 9:17 pm

dirtnsnow wrote: ↑
February 17th, 2020, 10:24 pm
Not as much of a stretch as you think. He makes the list of top 10 NCAA shooters of all time in at least a couple of rankings:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndicatio ... y.amp.html

www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/articl ... rs-century

I wonder where he ranks in game winning shots. Or money given back to Utah State.

Probably the same.

Post by **treesap32** » February 19th, 2020, 10:28 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:41 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.
I didn't listen, so I can't speak to the comments. But my biggest question is what does "better" mean?

I recall the team getting better after Jaycee left. I don't know if there were a lot of other factors involved, but what I've heard is that the whole team had to improve and become better rather than having Jaycee as a crutch to get them out of every situation. But I don't think that Sam has the same ability to score so many points and single-handedly win games for us. Many of the teams we've played have had a really remarkable scorer like Jaycee (e.g., Mays from LSU, Ford from SMC), and that makes playing against them so difficult.

Obviously Sam hasn't scored as many points, or had as many high scoring games that Jaycee had. So if the comparison about "better" is who can score more, it's obviously Jaycee. Not having listened, my assumption about "better" relates to all-around performance. Maybe the point was that Sam could have a terrible night scoring, but still be a huge benefit to the team defensively, create plays, make assists, and find the right situation to get it where it will score. If you rewatch games and listen to announcers, you hear them say many of the same things about Sam over and over: he just does everything right, he's versatile (screens, 3s, FTs, mid-range, even occasionally posting up, drawing the foul, assists, making plays, passing up good opportunities for himself for better opportunities from his teammates), get the ball in his hands because even if doesn't score it he'll make something happen to enable a play, any team would love a player like Sam on their team, etc. Maybe the argument of "Sam is better" is because Sam helps make the team around him better.

Another potential exploration about being "better" might relate to post-collegiate/professional play. What are the chances of Sam making it to the NBA? Does he have more stock in that regard? Clearly Jaycee had a lucrative and successful professional career in Europe, mostly due to his incredible work ethic and offensive prowess. At this point, I think that Sam can only hope to have such a successful and decorated professional career. And maybe he will! I think that will depend on what opportunities open up to him, and what decisions/risks he takes in his career.

Look, Jaycee Carroll was and is amazing. If the point being made was that he was lazy and just bombed in 3s all day without doing anything to make them happen, that's obviously incorrect. I really like Florida's comparison to a hummingbird, because of how apt it is. Jaycee is one of the greatest Aggies of all time, and always will be.
Not to hi-jack a thread here, but consider a scenario:

There are 12 seconds left in a game and USU is down a point and is throwing the ball inbound from under the opponent's basket. Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?

Carroll?
Merrill?
Quayle?
Butler?
Brown?
Rock?
Nelson?
Butterfield?
Grant?
Sims?

Edit: Oh, and.... no timeouts left.

Also - add Saxon to the list

Spicer.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » February 19th, 2020, 10:43 pm

treesap32 wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 10:28 pm

Yossarian wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:41 pm

kofdog wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 12:07 pm
So I heard a debate on the Full Court press the other night....Ajay thinking Sam is better than JC....I was so annoyed. It was like he never watched him play. He talked about how hard Sam works for his shots and JC would just cross the half court line and chuck it up.....I think he thinks JC is Jimmer? I tried to text in but they never answered me.
I didn't listen, so I can't speak to the comments. But my biggest question is what does "better" mean?

I recall the team getting better after Jaycee left. I don't know if there were a lot of other factors involved, but what I've heard is that the whole team had to improve and become better rather than having Jaycee as a crutch to get them out of every situation. But I don't think that Sam has the same ability to score so many points and single-handedly win games for us. Many of the teams we've played have had a really remarkable scorer like Jaycee (e.g., Mays from LSU, Ford from SMC), and that makes playing against them so difficult.

Obviously Sam hasn't scored as many points, or had as many high scoring games that Jaycee had. So if the comparison about "better" is who can score more, it's obviously Jaycee. Not having listened, my assumption about "better" relates to all-around performance. Maybe the point was that Sam could have a terrible night scoring, but still be a huge benefit to the team defensively, create plays, make assists, and find the right situation to get it where it will score. If you rewatch games and listen to announcers, you hear them say many of the same things about Sam over and over: he just does everything right, he's versatile (screens, 3s, FTs, mid-range, even occasionally posting up, drawing the foul, assists, making plays, passing up good opportunities for himself for better opportunities from his teammates), get the ball in his hands because even if doesn't score it he'll make something happen to enable a play, any team would love a player like Sam on their team, etc. Maybe the argument of "Sam is better" is because Sam helps make the team around him better.

Another potential exploration about being "better" might relate to post-collegiate/professional play. What are the chances of Sam making it to the NBA? Does he have more stock in that regard? Clearly Jaycee had a lucrative and successful professional career in Europe, mostly due to his incredible work ethic and offensive prowess. At this point, I think that Sam can only hope to have such a successful and decorated professional career. And maybe he will! I think that will depend on what opportunities open up to him, and what decisions/risks he takes in his career.

Look, Jaycee Carroll was and is amazing. If the point being made was that he was lazy and just bombed in 3s all day without doing anything to make them happen, that's obviously incorrect. I really like Florida's comparison to a hummingbird, because of how apt it is. Jaycee is one of the greatest Aggies of all time, and always will be.
Not to hi-jack a thread here, but consider a scenario:

There are 12 seconds left in a game and USU is down a point and is throwing the ball inbound from under the opponent's basket. Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?

Carroll?
Merrill?
Quayle?
Butler?
Brown?
Rock?
Nelson?
Butterfield?
Grant?
Sims?

Edit: Oh, and.... no timeouts left.

Also - add Saxon to the list
Spicer.

To dribble it up?

Post by **treesap32** » February 19th, 2020, 11:03 pm

Oh. Uh.... The question apparently ask for several players. "Who would you want to pass the ball into to get the ball up the court and take the winning shot or pass to a teammate for a potential game-winning shot?"

In that case:

Wesley passes in to Goodman who dribbles down and passes to Spicer for a winning shot.

Intermeddler · Post by **Intermeddler** » February 19th, 2020, 11:46 pm

UStateTim wrote: ↑
February 19th, 2020, 4:20 pm
I don't want to get roasted but I do think Sam is better than Jaycee overall. Jaycee is a better scorer but I believe Sam is a better ball handler, passer/playmaker, and defender. Sam is also going to finish his USU career top 2 in points and assists in school history.

Side note to the legendary status of Jaycee Carroll: Luka Doncic tweeted last year that Jaycee Carroll is the best shooter he's ever seen.

I don’t think Sam being better than Jaycee is a controversial opinion at all. I think he’s a better overall player pretty clearly.

dyedblue · Post by **dyedblue** » February 20th, 2020, 3:54 am

I want Shawn Daniels bringing it down the court, Brennan Ray setting the pick, and Spicer knocking it down for the W.

The debate about Jaycee and Sam could be legit. The recency bias makes it tough. Sam has time to write an ending that pushes him over the top with an NCAA win or two this year. Carroll never got one. Jaycee is a better shooter, Sam is a better all around player. I love them both and am grateful I have seen them play so many times. We’re luck to get players like them to come to Utah State.

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WAAggie · Post by **WAAggie** » February 21st, 2020, 11:46 am

If a pick is needed, my vote is for Brady jardine

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