What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

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What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Yossarian » August 2nd, 2020, 12:05 am

I have watched the MW Championship game several times over the last few months. It got me wondering... what if that shot from Flynn goes in to send the game to overtime? Do the Aggies still win it? Or does that shot give the Aztecs the momentum to put USU away in overtime?

I think the Aggies still win. Nobody could stop Merrill down the stretch. Anderson was playing with a lot of confidence that game and Queta was getting the best of Wetzel in the post. I like the way the game ended, but even if it went to OT the Aggies had enough to close it out.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by pilotaggie » August 2nd, 2020, 3:04 am

The only real question is if Sam had enough left in the tank for OT.

I wonder if his back has recovered yet after carrying the team for 3 nights. Sadly for us will we most likely never see a better individual performance than what Sam left on the floor.
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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by AggiePT » August 2nd, 2020, 11:16 am

pilotaggie wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 3:04 am
The only real question is if Sam had enough left in the tank for OT.

I wonder if his back has recovered yet after carrying the team for 3 nights. Sadly for us will we most likely never see a better individual performance than what Sam left on the floor.
Hey, I’m just happy that I got to witness it!
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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » August 3rd, 2020, 11:14 am

Who knows. I think we win in OT anyway. We were better than them down the stretch. Other than a spurt to start the game we were the better team that day.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Real Life Aggie » August 3rd, 2020, 11:47 am

Oof, sorry to be THAT GUY, but I think we lose. Neither team was in foul trouble, so no real personnel changes. Flynn was just getting going after a slow first half, and they were leading the offensive rebounds game. They were working us over in the paint. They had more offensive production spread across the team.

Now, we've been incredibly clutch and I don't want to down play our victory, because we got it and earned it. But SDSU was the better team. Yes, we beat them, and no, it wasn't a fluke. But they were still the better team. Given their penchant to be lagging at the half and roar back to win games, I do not believe that OT would have resulted in us being back-to-back champs.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by GUS » August 3rd, 2020, 1:11 pm

I would have been pissed about the non-called foul on Sam's last 3 pointer. He was fouled a lot harder than the foul called against Porter in the first half. Also, the out of bounds call against Queta would have weighed huge, because he had a dunk on that play.
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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by cdaAg » August 3rd, 2020, 3:13 pm

In this hypothetical world, we still win in regulation if Flynn's shot goes in because Neemi's dunk that was taken away by the horrid out-of-bounds call actually counts. Aggies win by 2.
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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by nswaggie » August 3rd, 2020, 3:28 pm

GUS wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 1:11 pm
I would have been pissed about the non-called foul on Sam's last 3 pointer. He was fouled a lot harder than the foul called against Porter in the first half. Also, the out of bounds call against Queta would have weighed huge, because he had a dunk on that play.
This, At any other point during the regular flow of the game that would have been called a foul, so why not at the end? I get it, but a foul is a foul.

I also would have been ticked about Smith’s decision to not put Kuba or Quetta guarding the inbound.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Yossarian » August 3rd, 2020, 3:48 pm

nswaggie wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:28 pm
GUS wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 1:11 pm
I would have been pissed about the non-called foul on Sam's last 3 pointer. He was fouled a lot harder than the foul called against Porter in the first half. Also, the out of bounds call against Queta would have weighed huge, because he had a dunk on that play.
This, At any other point during the regular flow of the game that would have been called a foul, so why not at the end? I get it, but a foul is a foul.

I also would have been ticked about Smith’s decision to not put Kuba or Quetta guarding the inbound.

I've thought about the decision to put a big guy on the in-bounder as well. I've justified not doing so thusly:

The inbound pass came after a made basket. Therefore, the inbounder was free to run the baseline to throw the ball in (as opposed to a foul, infraction, ball tipped out-of-bounds situation where the inbounder is subject to the rules of maintaining a pivot foot to throw the ball in bounds). Having freedom to run the baseline, it would have been fairly simple to fake a pass and then run a couple steps out of the defenders reach and throw the ball in. this would have left USU with one less defender guarding on the SDSU side of the court and vulnerable to a second long pass and a closer three-point shot attempt.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by nswaggie » August 3rd, 2020, 4:09 pm

Yossarian wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:48 pm
nswaggie wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:28 pm
GUS wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 1:11 pm
I would have been pissed about the non-called foul on Sam's last 3 pointer. He was fouled a lot harder than the foul called against Porter in the first half. Also, the out of bounds call against Queta would have weighed huge, because he had a dunk on that play.
This, At any other point during the regular flow of the game that would have been called a foul, so why not at the end? I get it, but a foul is a foul.

I also would have been ticked about Smith’s decision to not put Kuba or Quetta guarding the inbound.

I've thought about the decision to put a big guy on the in-bounder as well. I've justified not doing so thusly:

The inbound pass came after a made basket. Therefore, the inbounder was free to run the baseline to throw the ball in (as opposed to a foul, infraction, ball tipped out-of-bounds situation where the inbounder is subject to the rules of maintaining a pivot foot to throw the ball in bounds). Having freedom to run the baseline, it would have been fairly simple to fake a pass and then run a couple steps out of the defenders reach and throw the ball in. this would have left USU with one less defender guarding on the SDSU side of the court and vulnerable to a second long pass and a closer three-point shot attempt.
Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. I suppose the thought was we are going to give you a half court shot but nothing better. If you can make a half court shot then we will live with that. I am inclined to second guess it because of how close that last shot was to going in, but I should remember it was a low percentage shot.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Real Life Aggie » August 3rd, 2020, 5:32 pm

Yossarian wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:48 pm
nswaggie wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:28 pm
GUS wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 1:11 pm
I would have been pissed about the non-called foul on Sam's last 3 pointer. He was fouled a lot harder than the foul called against Porter in the first half. Also, the out of bounds call against Queta would have weighed huge, because he had a dunk on that play.
This, At any other point during the regular flow of the game that would have been called a foul, so why not at the end? I get it, but a foul is a foul.

I also would have been ticked about Smith’s decision to not put Kuba or Quetta guarding the inbound.

I've thought about the decision to put a big guy on the in-bounder as well. I've justified not doing so thusly:

The inbound pass came after a made basket. Therefore, the inbounder was free to run the baseline to throw the ball in (as opposed to a foul, infraction, ball tipped out-of-bounds situation where the inbounder is subject to the rules of maintaining a pivot foot to throw the ball in bounds). Having freedom to run the baseline, it would have been fairly simple to fake a pass and then run a couple steps out of the defenders reach and throw the ball in. this would have left USU with one less defender guarding on the SDSU side of the court and vulnerable to a second long pass and a closer three-point shot attempt.
With all the time-outs back and forth, I figured there was something going on in how the anticipated Brian Dutcher's response to his team would be. Something they saw in the tape that I didn't know, or responding to traditional defensive schemes that they've seen from him.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by UStateTim » August 3rd, 2020, 6:08 pm

I think we would lose in OT. Its tough emotionally to play an extra five minutes when you think the game is won. However, that ref that looked straight at Merrill getting fouled and called nothing. I would hope he never officiates another game, but luckily it didn't matter.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by bluegrouse » August 3rd, 2020, 7:37 pm

Honestly, I think we lose in OT for the same reason as Tim above ^^^. Very hard to recover when the greatest shot in your program’s history doesn’t win it.

I know one thing, I thought Flynn’s shot was going down when it was about halfway to the basket...



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Jjoey52 » August 3rd, 2020, 10:55 pm

Doesn’t matter what everyone thinks, Flynn missed.


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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Pacobag » August 4th, 2020, 10:05 am

Jjoey52 wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 10:55 pm
Doesn’t matter what everyone thinks, Flynn missed.
But what if Zion Williamson would have been recruited by USU, signed on, and decided to stay for 4 years?



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by ViAggie » August 4th, 2020, 12:46 pm

That would have been a HUUUUGE shot had he made it, they would have had the momentum. I still think we'd pull it out!


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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Intermeddler » August 4th, 2020, 12:50 pm

Then I would have been really mad they didn't call the foul on Sam's last shot. That should have been a 4 point play and it almost really mattered.

I think we lose in OT if it happens.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by sammyhagar » August 5th, 2020, 1:49 pm

we did a poor job of defending him on that shot. I realize you don't want to foul a three point shot, be we let them inbound the pass and move to half court way too easy.

but, on Sam's shot, SDSU defended it poorly in my opinion. when Sam was dribbling the ball, when the clock hit about 8 seconds, I would have had a second defender rush towards him and try to double him, not giving him room to maneuver or make a clean pass. The fact they tried to defend him one on one was a bit arrogant. But made for one hell of a dramatic scene.
I still have chills.
Last edited by sammyhagar on August 7th, 2020, 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Real Life Aggie » August 5th, 2020, 1:59 pm

sammyhagar wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 1:49 pm
we did a poor job of defending him on that shot. I realize you don't want to foul a three point shot, be we let them inbound the pass and move to half court way to easy.

but, on Sam's shot, SDSU defended it poorly in my opinion. when Sam was dribbling the ball, when the clock hit about 8 seconds, I would have had a second defender rush towards him and try to double him, not giving him room to maneuver or make a clean pass. The fact they tried to defend him one on one was a bit arrogant. But made for one hell of a dramatic scene.
I still have chills.
They double Sam and it leaves the team open to make a play. Then they definitely can't cover Queta.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Yossarian » August 5th, 2020, 2:00 pm

sammyhagar wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 1:49 pm
we did a poor job of defending him on that shot. I realize you don't want to foul a three point shot, be we let them inbound the pass and move to half court way to easy.

but, on Sam's shot, SDSU defended it poorly in my opinion. when Sam was dribbling the ball, when the clock hit about 8 seconds, I would have had a second defender rush towards him and try to double him, not giving him room to maneuver or make a clean pass. The fact they tried to defend him one on one was a bit arrogant. But made for one hell of a dramatic scene.
I still have chills.
Especially arrogant when you have the conference defensive player of the year not guarding him.

I agree - it was a shot for the ages.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Real Life Aggie » August 5th, 2020, 2:24 pm

Yossarian wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:00 pm
sammyhagar wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 1:49 pm
we did a poor job of defending him on that shot. I realize you don't want to foul a three point shot, be we let them inbound the pass and move to half court way to easy.

but, on Sam's shot, SDSU defended it poorly in my opinion. when Sam was dribbling the ball, when the clock hit about 8 seconds, I would have had a second defender rush towards him and try to double him, not giving him room to maneuver or make a clean pass. The fact they tried to defend him one on one was a bit arrogant. But made for one hell of a dramatic scene.
I still have chills.
Especially arrogant when you have the conference defensive player of the year not guarding him.

I agree - it was a shot for the ages.
But Flynn wasn't their best bet to guard against Sam, and they knew it. In this situation, out like that and trying to stop his 3, Feagin was the better option. Flynn is incredibly talented, but not his strength in this situation.

I think the hope was to force a bad 3 pt shot and hope he misses. They viewed it as the least risky option.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Yossarian » August 5th, 2020, 2:28 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:24 pm
Yossarian wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:00 pm
sammyhagar wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 1:49 pm
we did a poor job of defending him on that shot. I realize you don't want to foul a three point shot, be we let them inbound the pass and move to half court way to easy.

but, on Sam's shot, SDSU defended it poorly in my opinion. when Sam was dribbling the ball, when the clock hit about 8 seconds, I would have had a second defender rush towards him and try to double him, not giving him room to maneuver or make a clean pass. The fact they tried to defend him one on one was a bit arrogant. But made for one hell of a dramatic scene.
I still have chills.
Especially arrogant when you have the conference defensive player of the year not guarding him.

I agree - it was a shot for the ages.
But Flynn wasn't their best bet to guard against Sam, and they knew it. In this situation, out like that and trying to stop his 3, Feagin was the better option. Flynn is incredibly talented, but not his strength in this situation.

I think the hope was to force a bad 3 pt shot and hope he misses. They viewed it as the least risky option.
I understand this - my statement was a facetious quip at the fact that Flynn was voted defensive MVP of the league. And Flynn, a guard, was not guarding USU's guard when it mattered most.
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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Real Life Aggie » August 5th, 2020, 3:04 pm

Yossarian wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:28 pm
Real Life Aggie wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:24 pm
Yossarian wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:00 pm
sammyhagar wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 1:49 pm
we did a poor job of defending him on that shot. I realize you don't want to foul a three point shot, be we let them inbound the pass and move to half court way to easy.

but, on Sam's shot, SDSU defended it poorly in my opinion. when Sam was dribbling the ball, when the clock hit about 8 seconds, I would have had a second defender rush towards him and try to double him, not giving him room to maneuver or make a clean pass. The fact they tried to defend him one on one was a bit arrogant. But made for one hell of a dramatic scene.
I still have chills.
Especially arrogant when you have the conference defensive player of the year not guarding him.

I agree - it was a shot for the ages.
But Flynn wasn't their best bet to guard against Sam, and they knew it. In this situation, out like that and trying to stop his 3, Feagin was the better option. Flynn is incredibly talented, but not his strength in this situation.

I think the hope was to force a bad 3 pt shot and hope he misses. They viewed it as the least risky option.
I understand this - my statement was a facetious quip at the fact that Flynn was voted defensive MVP of the league. And Flynn, a guard, was not guarding USU's guard when it mattered most.
My bad. :)

Yeah... Honestly, even another player on his team, Mitchell, was a better defensive player imo... :headscratch:



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by mcaggie1 » August 6th, 2020, 8:58 am

Yossarian wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 12:05 am
I have watched the MW Championship game several times over the last few months. It got me wondering... what if that shot from Flynn goes in to send the game to overtime? Do the Aggies still win it? Or does that shot give the Aztecs the momentum to put USU away in overtime?

I think the Aggies still win. Nobody could stop Merrill down the stretch. Anderson was playing with a lot of confidence that game and Queta was getting the best of Wetzel in the post. I like the way the game ended, but even if it went to OT the Aggies had enough to close it out.
It was way more likely that Sam would have made his first free throw on our prior possession. That would have really changed the end of the game.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by nswaggie » August 6th, 2020, 11:42 am

mcaggie1 wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 8:58 am
Yossarian wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 12:05 am
I have watched the MW Championship game several times over the last few months. It got me wondering... what if that shot from Flynn goes in to send the game to overtime? Do the Aggies still win it? Or does that shot give the Aztecs the momentum to put USU away in overtime?

I think the Aggies still win. Nobody could stop Merrill down the stretch. Anderson was playing with a lot of confidence that game and Queta was getting the best of Wetzel in the post. I like the way the game ended, but even if it went to OT the Aggies had enough to close it out.
It was way more likely that Sam would have made his first free throw on our prior possession. That would have really changed the end of the game.
I’ll bite.
Sam makes both free throws we are up by one. On SDSU possession Instead of settling for a 3 Flynn drives and makes a floater in the lane SDSU up by 1. We inbound and then Sam makes his 3 on the buzzer! No time for a half court heave, game over Aggies win by 2!
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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by mcaggie1 » August 6th, 2020, 5:48 pm

nswaggie wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 11:42 am
mcaggie1 wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 8:58 am
Yossarian wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 12:05 am
I have watched the MW Championship game several times over the last few months. It got me wondering... what if that shot from Flynn goes in to send the game to overtime? Do the Aggies still win it? Or does that shot give the Aztecs the momentum to put USU away in overtime?

I think the Aggies still win. Nobody could stop Merrill down the stretch. Anderson was playing with a lot of confidence that game and Queta was getting the best of Wetzel in the post. I like the way the game ended, but even if it went to OT the Aggies had enough to close it out.
It was way more likely that Sam would have made his first free throw on our prior possession. That would have really changed the end of the game.
I’ll bite.
Sam makes both free throws we are up by one. On SDSU possession Instead of settling for a 3 Flynn drives and makes a floater in the lane SDSU up by 1. We inbound and then Sam makes his 3 on the buzzer! No time for a half court heave, game over Aggies win by 2!
Love it! I have it this way. Sam makes both free throws putting us up by one. Flynn dribbles down the lane, stops, and puts up a fall away jump shot. Queta swats it away with 4 seconds left. Merrill picks up ball at the top of the key. Fouled with 1.8 seconds left. Hits them both. SDSU takes ball in bounds at the baseline. Queta blocks inbound pass. Game over.
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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by AggiesForever » August 7th, 2020, 8:33 am

nswaggie wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:28 pm
GUS wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 1:11 pm
I would have been pissed about the non-called foul on Sam's last 3 pointer. He was fouled a lot harder than the foul called against Porter in the first half. Also, the out of bounds call against Queta would have weighed huge, because he had a dunk on that play.
This, At any other point during the regular flow of the game that would have been called a foul, so why not at the end? I get it, but a foul is a foul.

I also would have been ticked about Smith’s decision to not put Kuba or Quetta guarding the inbound.
I have always wondered why they didn't go to the monitor and review the foul. Sure, he made the shot. But a 90% free throw probably makes it and puts the game out of reach. Were the refs to chicken to "take the game away" from San Diego State. The replays have show that is exactly what they should have done, and it wouldn't have been their fault at all.



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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by treesap32 » August 7th, 2020, 9:57 am

AggiesForever wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 8:33 am
nswaggie wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:28 pm
GUS wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 1:11 pm
I would have been pissed about the non-called foul on Sam's last 3 pointer. He was fouled a lot harder than the foul called against Porter in the first half. Also, the out of bounds call against Queta would have weighed huge, because he had a dunk on that play.
This, At any other point during the regular flow of the game that would have been called a foul, so why not at the end? I get it, but a foul is a foul.

I also would have been ticked about Smith’s decision to not put Kuba or Quetta guarding the inbound.
I have always wondered why they didn't go to the monitor and review the foul. Sure, he made the shot. But a 90% free throw probably makes it and puts the game out of reach. Were the refs to chicken to "take the game away" from San Diego State. The replays have show that is exactly what they should have done, and it wouldn't have been their fault at all.
Fouls are judgment calls by the officials, and are not reviewable in NCAA. They can review possession when the ball goes out of bounds (under 2 minutes), three point baskets (to see if they were behind the line) and, clock violations. They can also review basket interference calls within the last 2 minutes of the game, which was a brand new rule this last season.

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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by Real Life Aggie » August 7th, 2020, 10:29 am

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Re: What if Flynn makes the half court shot?

Post by pablohoney » August 7th, 2020, 6:23 pm

I'm still trying to process what might have happened had Gordon Hayward made that half courter in the 2010 championship game.



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