I can now see that Gonzaga is in big trouble tonight. We already saw it the other night, but Gonzaga was able to pull off a miracle. What do I mean?

I think in Baylor we're seeing the new recipe for success in basketball.
1. Great Guard play
-Speed, athleticism, emphasis on speed!
2. Shooting from 3
-3 guys, minimum that can be depended upon
3. Athleticism and quickness and physicality at the center spot
-Emphasis on physicality and athleticism
4. Great pick and roll game with your big forward or center

The past season we lacked #1, and we were inconsistent at #2. We were especially strong at #3. We weren't good at #4 even though we had a ton of potential with that.

Digging up an old skeleton; Where I started to lose enthusiasm for Stew was when he couldn't figure out #4 with Gary Wilkson. Gary was a special talent. He could really shoot it from 3. He wasn't quite as good as Drew Timme at Gonzaga because he didn't have a left hand, but he certainly could shoot the 3 better than Timme. What Stew needed to do with him was use him in a pick and roll and pop him out for a three. Stew was too old school to make this kind of an adjustment in his Xs and Os.

As far as what happened in 2020-2021, we should've used Queta a lot more in the pick and roll and I felt that Rollie could run that play. However, one of the reasons that it wouldn't have worked as well was because Rollie was too inconsistent in his 3pt shooting.

The Aggies really need to work on all 4 aspects of the game that I mentioned above. Right now we don't have all of the pieces. I hope Ryan Odom can bring a couple of transfers with him.

Baylor is playing GATA basketball right now.

1st half Baylor was rebounding the heck out of the ball
on the offensive end. If they missed they were right there. Everyone talks about Baylor’s defense, but they impressed me the most with their offensive rebounding both against Houston & now against the zags.

Baylor has two guys with 4 fouls. Could become a problem.

Hard to win when it's 8 on 5. Regardless baylor's 3% is ridiculous.

Oh give me a break. Baylor’s whopped their (I can't express myself without swearing) from tip.

Welp... so much for the wet goat conference

ViAggie wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 9:44 pm

Welp... so much for the wet goat conference

As compared to what other conference?

AggieFBObsession wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 7:45 pm

I can now see that Gonzaga is in big trouble tonight. We already saw it the other night, but Gonzaga was able to pull off a miracle. What do I mean?

I think in Baylor we're seeing the new recipe for success in basketball.
1. Great Guard play
-Speed, athleticism, emphasis on speed!
2. Shooting from 3
-3 guys, minimum that can be depended upon
3. Athleticism and quickness and physicality at the center spot
-Emphasis on physicality and athleticism
4. Great pick and roll game with your big forward or center

The past season we lacked #1, and we were inconsistent at #2. We were especially strong at #3. We weren't good at #4 even though we had a ton of potential with that.

Digging up an old skeleton; Where I started to lose enthusiasm for Stew was when he couldn't figure out #4 with Gary Wilkson. Gary was a special talent. He could really shoot it from 3. He wasn't quite as good as Drew Timme at Gonzaga because he didn't have a left hand, but he certainly could shoot the 3 better than Timme. What Stew needed to do with him was use him in a pick and roll and pop him out for a three. Stew was too old school to make this kind of an adjustment in his Xs and Os.

As far as what happened in 2020-2021, we should've used Queta a lot more in the pick and roll and I felt that Rollie could run that play. However, one of the reasons that it wouldn't have worked as well was because Rollie was too inconsistent in his 3pt shooting.

The Aggies really need to work on all 4 aspects of the game that I mentioned above. Right now we don't have all of the pieces. I hope Ryan Odom can bring a couple of transfers with him.

You're forgetting the two main points:

1. Offensive rebounding
2. Hit the weight room


Making shots, especially from three, certainly helps

I only caught the second half. Going into this game I thought Gonzaga was going to get over the hump. That second half was an exclamation point on Baylors season. I severely underestimated Baylor in my bracket.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Gonzaga needs to get out of the wet goat conference. The competition does not prepare them for the tourny.

GUS wrote:Gonzaga needs to get out of the wet goat conference. The competition does not prepare them for the tourny.

They were in the national championship game. It’s not like they got knocked out in the second round. Nobody would have beaten Baylor tonight.

afausu wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:19 pm

GUS wrote:Gonzaga needs to get out of the wet goat conference. The competition does not prepare them for the tourny.

They were in the national championship game. It’s not like they got knocked out in the second round. Nobody would have beaten Baylor tonight.

Yep, in the last 5 years, Gonzaga has been in the championship game twice, the elite 8 three times and the Sweet Sixteen 4 times. This is out of four possible chances since the tournament was cancelled last year. Gonzaga would have been a 1 seed last year had there been a tournament with their 31-2 record.

I don't get why they still want to be in the WCC. They have long since graduated from that league, but I don't know how it can be argued it hurts them in tournament preparation when they have won the most tournament games over the last 5 years.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:29 pm

afausu wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:19 pm

GUS wrote:Gonzaga needs to get out of the wet goat conference. The competition does not prepare them for the tourny.

They were in the national championship game. It’s not like they got knocked out in the second round. Nobody would have beaten Baylor tonight.

Yep, in the last 5 years, Gonzaga has been in the championship game twice, the elite 8 three times and the Sweet Sixteen 4 times. This is out of four possible chances since the tournament was cancelled last year. Gonzaga would have been a 1 seed last year had their been a tournament with their 31-2 record.

I don't get why they still want to be in the WCC. They have long since graduated from that league, but I don't know how it can be argued it hurts them in tournament preparation when they have won the most tournament games over the last 5 years.

And what conference should they go to that could match the level they have graduated to? I mean the pac12 right? But they aren’t taking them. The mwc sure but they really would still easily be the prettiest school.

slcagg wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:34 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:29 pm

afausu wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:19 pm

GUS wrote:Gonzaga needs to get out of the wet goat conference. The competition does not prepare them for the tourny.

They were in the national championship game. It’s not like they got knocked out in the second round. Nobody would have beaten Baylor tonight.

Yep, in the last 5 years, Gonzaga has been in the championship game twice, the elite 8 three times and the Sweet Sixteen 4 times. This is out of four possible chances since the tournament was cancelled last year. Gonzaga would have been a 1 seed last year had their been a tournament with their 31-2 record.

I don't get why they still want to be in the WCC. They have long since graduated from that league, but I don't know how it can be argued it hurts them in tournament preparation when they have won the most tournament games over the last 5 years.

And what conference should they go to that could match the level they have graduated to?

They had the chance to, and really could get a second chance to if they wanted, get in the Mountain West. But they admittedly would have dominated it this year as well, especially with the Covid crowds or no crowds they would have had for the road games.

slcagg wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:34 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:29 pm

afausu wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:19 pm

GUS wrote:Gonzaga needs to get out of the wet goat conference. The competition does not prepare them for the tourny.

They were in the national championship game. It’s not like they got knocked out in the second round. Nobody would have beaten Baylor tonight.

Yep, in the last 5 years, Gonzaga has been in the championship game twice, the elite 8 three times and the Sweet Sixteen 4 times. This is out of four possible chances since the tournament was cancelled last year. Gonzaga would have been a 1 seed last year had their been a tournament with their 31-2 record.

I don't get why they still want to be in the WCC. They have long since graduated from that league, but I don't know how it can be argued it hurts them in tournament preparation when they have won the most tournament games over the last 5 years.

And what conference should they go to that could match the level they have graduated to? I mean the pac12 right? But they aren’t taking them. The mwc sure but they really would still easily be the prettiest school.

Them being in the MW would be a much better fit. Sure I am biased, but the MW is better(without Gonzaga) than the WCC and has far and away more upside. If New Mexico and unlv ever reach their potential, the MW can be a 4-5 bid league again.

I watched Baylor a number of times this season and I thought they had the most overall talent and depth of anyone I had seen all year. I picked them and the Zags to meet up in the championship but I was honestly a little scared that Gonzaga would get knocked off along the way.

I give them props for playing a tough OOC schedule but those games are so early in the year that I think it's hard for them to maintain the level of play required to win it all after playing the WCC schedule for a couple of months prior to the tourney. They are getting closer.

Hard to beat the collection of athletes and shooters Baylor has assembled though.

GUS wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 10:05 pm

Gonzaga needs to get out of the wet goat conference. The competition does not prepare them for the tourny.

Well it prepared them enough to win 5 games in the tourney this year. I thought I’d compare Gonzaga’s NCAA tournament success with the seven “Blue Blood” basketball programs since 1999, when Gonzaga first went to the NCAA tourney.

Appearances: 22
Sweet 16: 11
Elite 8: 5
Final Four: 2
Finals: 2
Championships: 0

In the same period this is Duke’s record:
Appearances: 21
Sweet 16: 16
Elite 8: 8
Final 4: 5
Finals: 4
Championships: 3

In the same period this is Kentucky’s record:
Appearances: 19
Sweet 16: 13
Elite 8: 10
Final 4: 4
Finals: 2
Championships: 1

In the same period this is Kansas’ record:
Appearances: 22
Sweet 16: 13
Elite 8: 10
Final 4: 5
Finals: 3
Championships: 1

In the same period this is North Carolina’s record:
Appearances: 19
Sweet 16: 11
Elite 8: 9
Final 4: 6
Finals: 4
Championships: 3


In the same period this is Michigan State’s record:
Appearances: 22
Sweet 16: 13
Elite 8: 10
Final 4: 8
Finals: 2
Championships: 1

In the same period this is Michigan’s record:
Appearances: 10
Sweet 16: 6
Elite 8: 4
Final 4: 2
Finals: 2
Championships: 0

n the same period this is Virginia’s record:
Appearances: 10
Sweet 16: 3
Elite 8: 2
Final 4: 1
Finals: 1
Championships: 1

In the same period this is Ohio State’s record:
Appearances: 12 (3 of these were vacated)
Sweet 16: 6 (1 of these were vacated)
Elite 8: 4 (1 of these were vacated)
Final 4: 3 (1 of these were vacated)
Finals: 1
Championships: 0

Of all of the DI college basketball programs only four (Duke, North Carolina, Kansas and Michigan St.) have exceeded Gonzaga’s NCAA success over the last 23 seasons. That doesn’t scream “Gonzaga needs to leave the WCC if it wants to compete in the NCAA tourney” to me.

Yeah... WCC seems to be working out swimmingly for Gonzaga. They're doing great, they're dominant in conference and in the NCAA as a whole. Why change?

And Gonzaga now recruits with the big boys. Jalen Suggs could have played college ball anywhere. His choice actually came down to Gonzaga or playing pro ball overseas. He'll be a top 3 pick in the draft. For 2021, they are a finalist for Chet Holmgren who is the top recruit in the country and have Hunter Sallis committed next year who is a 5 star recruit.

Pretty amazing deal what they have done since 99. They were a program that had never even made the tournament in their history until 1995

It's interesting that this thread has become more about Gonzaga than Baylor. What Baylor has done should be opening everyone's eyes. You don't see a 7 footer who can block shots and post up consistently. It's no longer necessary. You don't see guys with no speed who are simply good at spotting up for a 3 point shot. Everyone of their guys, except their center, can dribble penetrate or knock down threes consistently. And their big man is really good at setting high pick and roll screens and as someone pointed out above, rebounding. That's something that almost every school in this country should be now trying to accomplish. It's the only way to compete at that level (NCAA tournament level). Oral Roberts followed that model. Even Abelene Christian followed that model. And it's why Gonzaga lost...

For those who don't know, Baylor's team was built largely in part from transfers. So there's that for anyone against USU greatly utilizing the transfer portal.

Can anyone imagine how Jerry Tarkanian would have milked the transfer portal? He’d be beside himself with glee.

Roy McAvoy wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 11:44 am

For those who don't know, Baylor's team was built largely in part from transfers. So there's that for anyone against USU greatly utilizing the transfer portal.

I know some are arguing against it, but I don't see why. I want USU to take the next step and start winning tournament games. I don't care how we do it. (Obviously I'm against cheating) If filling a team with good transfers leads us to wins, we should go that route. You have mentioned Baylor, but Gonzaga has also had their fair share of good transfers over the years. This year they had a couple, but their 2017 final four team was big on transfers with Nigel Williams-Goss, Jordan Mathews and Johnathan Williams. Kyle Wiltjer is also one of their best players of the last decade and he transferred there from Kentucky.

This talk of Gonzaga leaving the WCC is kind of silly. They are already on the cusp of being a blue blood, and they have no problem making deep runs in the tournament. If they had a problem making deep runs than I can see the point. I still believe they will one day win a title in the not-so-distant future.

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 5:22 pm

This talk of Gonzaga leaving the WCC is kind of silly. They are already on the cusp of being a blue blood, and they have no problem making deep runs in the tournament. If they had a problem making deep runs than I can see the point. I still believe they will one day win a title in the not-so-distant future.

Two things can be true. They should leave the WCC for a more challenging conference schedule and for their own fan's excitement. If I was a Gonzaga fan I'd much rather have San Diego State, Utah State, UNLV, New Mexico, etc. . . coming into the Kennel than Pepperdine and Loyola. It can also be true and it is that being in the WCC hasn't held them back at all. They are one of the best tournament teams in the country. They regularly make deep runs and also have no problem getting good seeds. If you include 2020 when they would have got a #1 seed, they have been a 1 seed four of the last 5 years. Pretty incredible.

Aglicious wrote: ↑

April 5th, 2021, 11:00 pm

I watched Baylor a number of times this season and I thought they had the most overall talent and depth of anyone I had seen all year. I picked them and the Zags to meet up in the championship but I was honestly a little scared that Gonzaga would get knocked off along the way.

I give them props for playing a tough OOC schedule but those games are so early in the year that I think it's hard for them to maintain the level of play required to win it all after playing the WCC schedule for a couple of months prior to the tourney. They are getting closer.

Hard to beat the collection of athletes and shooters Baylor has assembled though.

I picked Baylor winning it all correctly, in my pool, but I had Gonzaga losing in the third round. I had Iowa playing in the Championship - that didn't go very well for me, either.

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 6:43 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 5:22 pm

This talk of Gonzaga leaving the WCC is kind of silly. They are already on the cusp of being a blue blood, and they have no problem making deep runs in the tournament. If they had a problem making deep runs than I can see the point. I still believe they will one day win a title in the not-so-distant future.

Two things can be true. They should leave the WCC for a more challenging conference schedule and for their own fan's excitement. If I was a Gonzaga fan I'd much rather have San Diego State, Utah State, UNLV, New Mexico, etc. . . coming into the Kennel than Pepperdine and Loyola. It can also be true and it is that being in the WCC hasn't held them back at all. They are one of the best tournament teams in the country. They regularly make deep runs and also have no problem getting good seeds. If you include 2020 when they would have got a #1 seed, they have been a 1 seed four of the last 5 years. Pretty incredible.

Here's the thing. Why would a team want to have a stronger conference schedule? So they can have a higher seed in the NCAA tournament, and be battle tested to make a deep run in that tournament. Is Gonzaga already doing that right now? If the answer is yes, then they are fine with where they're at. If the answer is no, then yes they should look into moving conferences if someone is interested. The only point that could be true is moving Gonzaga to the Mountain West Conference with the teams that they would play, might be a little more appealing to the fan base, but I don't know if that's true with the Zag fan base. I don't have a good pulse of what their fans think, but they do sell out the Kennel all the time so there's that. If Gonzaga wasn't the gauntlet that they are, then yes maybe the Mountain West conference would be better for them, but then again if they weren't the gauntlet that they are then would the Mountain West Conference even be interested? Gonzaga's size and culture would probably be a better fit in the Big East than the Mountain West.

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 8:21 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 6:43 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 5:22 pm

This talk of Gonzaga leaving the WCC is kind of silly. They are already on the cusp of being a blue blood, and they have no problem making deep runs in the tournament. If they had a problem making deep runs than I can see the point. I still believe they will one day win a title in the not-so-distant future.

Two things can be true. They should leave the WCC for a more challenging conference schedule and for their own fan's excitement. If I was a Gonzaga fan I'd much rather have San Diego State, Utah State, UNLV, New Mexico, etc. . . coming into the Kennel than Pepperdine and Loyola. It can also be true and it is that being in the WCC hasn't held them back at all. They are one of the best tournament teams in the country. They regularly make deep runs and also have no problem getting good seeds. If you include 2020 when they would have got a #1 seed, they have been a 1 seed four of the last 5 years. Pretty incredible.

Here's the thing. Why would a team want to have a stronger conference schedule? So they can have a higher seed in the NCAA tournament, and be battle tested to make a deep run in that tournament. Is Gonzaga already doing that right now? If the answer is yes, then they are fine with where they're at. If the answer is no, then yes they should look into moving conferences if someone is interested. The only point that could be true is moving Gonzaga to the Mountain West Conference with the teams that they would play, might be a little more appealing to the fan base, but I don't know if that's true with the Zag fan base. I don't have a good pulse of what their fans think, but they do sell out the Kennel all the time so there's that. If Gonzaga wasn't the gauntlet that they are, then yes maybe the Mountain West conference would be better for them, but then again if they weren't the gauntlet will the Mountain West Conference even be interested?

It all comes down to $. If the mw could offer a deal with a nice increase for them then I’m sure they’d consider it.

slcagg wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 8:23 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 8:21 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 6:43 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 5:22 pm

This talk of Gonzaga leaving the WCC is kind of silly. They are already on the cusp of being a blue blood, and they have no problem making deep runs in the tournament. If they had a problem making deep runs than I can see the point. I still believe they will one day win a title in the not-so-distant future.

Two things can be true. They should leave the WCC for a more challenging conference schedule and for their own fan's excitement. If I was a Gonzaga fan I'd much rather have San Diego State, Utah State, UNLV, New Mexico, etc. . . coming into the Kennel than Pepperdine and Loyola. It can also be true and it is that being in the WCC hasn't held them back at all. They are one of the best tournament teams in the country. They regularly make deep runs and also have no problem getting good seeds. If you include 2020 when they would have got a #1 seed, they have been a 1 seed four of the last 5 years. Pretty incredible.

Here's the thing. Why would a team want to have a stronger conference schedule? So they can have a higher seed in the NCAA tournament, and be battle tested to make a deep run in that tournament. Is Gonzaga already doing that right now? If the answer is yes, then they are fine with where they're at. If the answer is no, then yes they should look into moving conferences if someone is interested. The only point that could be true is moving Gonzaga to the Mountain West Conference with the teams that they would play, might be a little more appealing to the fan base, but I don't know if that's true with the Zag fan base. I don't have a good pulse of what their fans think, but they do sell out the Kennel all the time so there's that. If Gonzaga wasn't the gauntlet that they are, then yes maybe the Mountain West conference would be better for them, but then again if they weren't the gauntlet will the Mountain West Conference even be interested?

It all comes down to $. If the mw could offer a deal with a nice increase for them then I’m sure they’d consider it.

The WCC re-did their NCAA tournament financial unit allocation that basically sweetened the pot for Gonzaga to stay. The Mountain West Conference wasn't willing to do that, but with Boise State already getting Gonzaga type treatment why should we? Now if Boise State goes to the AAC then maybe money will be freed up to do that, but then again maybe the money will go away because Boise State brings in that much.

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 8:21 pm

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 6:43 pm

Aggiealum13 wrote: ↑

April 6th, 2021, 5:22 pm

This talk of Gonzaga leaving the WCC is kind of silly. They are already on the cusp of being a blue blood, and they have no problem making deep runs in the tournament. If they had a problem making deep runs than I can see the point. I still believe they will one day win a title in the not-so-distant future.

Two things can be true. They should leave the WCC for a more challenging conference schedule and for their own fan's excitement. If I was a Gonzaga fan I'd much rather have San Diego State, Utah State, UNLV, New Mexico, etc. . . coming into the Kennel than Pepperdine and Loyola. It can also be true and it is that being in the WCC hasn't held them back at all. They are one of the best tournament teams in the country. They regularly make deep runs and also have no problem getting good seeds. If you include 2020 when they would have got a #1 seed, they have been a 1 seed four of the last 5 years. Pretty incredible.

Here's the thing. Why would a team want to have a stronger conference schedule? So they can have a higher seed in the NCAA tournament, and be battle tested to make a deep run in that tournament. Is Gonzaga already doing that right now? If the answer is yes, then they are fine with where they're at. If the answer is no, then yes they should look into moving conferences if someone is interested. The only point that could be true is moving Gonzaga to the Mountain West Conference with the teams that they would play, might be a little more appealing to the fan base, but I don't know if that's true with the Zag fan base. I don't have a good pulse of what their fans think, but they do sell out the Kennel all the time so there's that. If Gonzaga wasn't the gauntlet that they are, then yes maybe the Mountain West conference would be better for them, but then again if they weren't the gauntlet that they are then would the Mountain West Conference even be interested? Gonzaga's size and culture would probably be a better fit in the Big East than the Mountain West.

Sure like I said they are fine where they are out. It doesn't hurt them. They get to the tournament and go on deep runs regardless of being in the WCC. If I was a Gonzaga fan, I would want a better conference though. They are 80-3 in the WCC over the past 5 years. Since Mark Few took over they have finished first in the conference every year but twice when they finished second. They play a challenging OOC, then they basically play a bunch of exhibition games for 2 months before the tournament.