I am a little worried

This forum is for Basketball discussion only. Other topics will be moved to the appropriate forum.
Aggie formerly in Hawaii
Posts: 7960
Joined: October 22nd, 2016, 1:06 am
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 2529 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 19th, 2021, 9:37 am

NVAggie wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 8:58 am
I agree, winning on the court is more important than winning in the recruiting world.
They aren't separate. Winning in recruiting means you will win on the court. If recruiting isn't important, we might as well just go find a bunch of guys playing pick up ball at a frat house near campus and have them be our team.
These users thanked the author Aggie formerly in Hawaii for the post:
utaggies



User avatar
brownjeans
Flatulent
Posts: 18612
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 10:21 am
Has thanked: 951 times
Been thanked: 1739 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by brownjeans » April 19th, 2021, 9:39 am

2004AG wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 9:23 am
NVAggie wrote:I agree, winning on the court is more important than winning in the recruiting world.
Who is saying otherwise ?

There is an undeniable direct correlation between the two though.
Who is saying otherwise? You can't have a chicken without an egg.

A great chicken farmer can raise a great chicken from average eggs.
A bad chicken farmer can end up with no chickens from great eggs.
In either case - great chickens are the goal.



User avatar
brownjeans
Flatulent
Posts: 18612
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 10:21 am
Has thanked: 951 times
Been thanked: 1739 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by brownjeans » April 19th, 2021, 9:51 am

Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 9:37 am
NVAggie wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 8:58 am
I agree, winning on the court is more important than winning in the recruiting world.
They aren't separate. Winning in recruiting means you will win on the court. If recruiting isn't important, we might as well just go find a bunch of guys playing pick up ball at a frat house near campus and have them be our team.
Agree that they aren't separate - you can't have chickens without eggs. But I disagree that winning in recruiting automatically means winning on the court.
There are coaches/schools who do well in recruiting and can't win on the court. UNLV has had four NBA draft picks since 2013, 0 regular season MWC championships. 0 MWC tournament championships and 1 NCAA tournament appearance.
Good eggs don't always result in good chickens - especially if there are problems with the chicken farm and the farmers who work there don't know how to develop that egg into a good chicken (or team of chickens?).



Madmartigan
Posts: 3878
Joined: November 19th, 2010, 11:30 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1174 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by Madmartigan » April 19th, 2021, 10:00 am

brownjeans wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 9:51 am
Aggie formerly in Hawaii wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 9:37 am
NVAggie wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 8:58 am
I agree, winning on the court is more important than winning in the recruiting world.
They aren't separate. Winning in recruiting means you will win on the court. If recruiting isn't important, we might as well just go find a bunch of guys playing pick up ball at a frat house near campus and have them be our team.
Agree that they aren't separate - you can't have chickens without eggs. But I disagree that winning in recruiting automatically means winning on the court.
There are coaches/schools who do well in recruiting and can't win on the court. UNLV has had four NBA draft picks since 2013, 0 regular season MWC championships. 0 MWC tournament championships and 1 NCAA tournament appearance.
Good eggs don't always result in good chickens - especially if there are problems with the chicken farm and the farmers who work there don't know how to develop that egg into a good chicken (or team of chickens?).
Everything you say about UNLV is true. I'd say UNLV is a crazy outlier. Most teams that are getting McDonald's All-Americans and guys into the league (generally) do well in their conferences and the tourney. The level of dysfunction in UNLVs AD is the real story there. I wouldn't use them as an example to undervalue the importance of recruiting.

Generally speaking the more talented team wins basketball games. To have the more talented teams you have to out-recruit and out-develop your opponent. We need to do a better job of finding guys that are more physically developed and skilled to give us an edge.



NVAggie
SJSU Ultimate Loser Award Winner - Given to someone that should probably give up but won't.
Posts: 23328
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 8:09 am
Location: Where the sagebrush grows!
Has thanked: 1400 times
Been thanked: 3128 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by NVAggie » April 19th, 2021, 10:01 am

It is interesting that those comments are so controversial. Yes, recruiting wins can definitely affect court wins. Ultimately, court wins are the most important.
These users thanked the author NVAggie for the post:
brownjeans



cval
Posts: 2166
Joined: December 10th, 2010, 1:32 pm
Has thanked: 705 times
Been thanked: 746 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by cval » April 19th, 2021, 10:35 am

I am always amazed at how hard some people work to try to make someone else wrong on the internet.

Yes. Recruiting good players is an important part of having a good team.

Yes, some coaches are able to coach winning teams with less talented players than others.

Yes, at various times USU has fit into that category.

Yes, we have had some really good players at USU.

You guys are really not that far apart in your argument, but you can't allow yourself to lose the fight.

Might be time to let it die a natural death.
These users thanked the author cval for the post (total 2):
NVAggieAggie84025



utaggies
Posts: 8367
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 12:25 pm
Has thanked: 992 times
Been thanked: 870 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by utaggies » April 19th, 2021, 10:48 am

NVAggie wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 10:01 am
It is interesting that those comments are so controversial. Yes, recruiting wins can definitely affect court wins. Ultimately, court wins are the most important.
Napolean was said to have stated (or something like it): “God is on the side of the army with the most cannons”. Having a team of bad players doesn’t necessarily translate into having a bad record. Having a team of great players doesn’t necessarily translate into having a good record. But in both cases that is the way to bet.

I’ll take my chances in having a bunch of 4 star players every time over the converse.



NVAggie
SJSU Ultimate Loser Award Winner - Given to someone that should probably give up but won't.
Posts: 23328
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 8:09 am
Location: Where the sagebrush grows!
Has thanked: 1400 times
Been thanked: 3128 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by NVAggie » April 19th, 2021, 10:59 am

I think we can all agree that we want the very best players possible. They also give us a better chance to win. I don't think that was ever the argument. So it sounds like we are all correct on this one.



User avatar
GUS
Posts: 3594
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 11:04 am
Has thanked: 350 times
Been thanked: 696 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by GUS » April 19th, 2021, 4:59 pm

Don't know how to get it posted here, but I just listened to a podcast of Scotty G. interviewing Coach Odom. It was posted on twitter, but I'm too dumb to know how to make it available here. If you get a chance, it's worth hunting down and listening to. Much different than Odom's press conference. Just listening to it gave me a ton more confidence in Odom.
These users thanked the author GUS for the post:
ineptimusprime



User avatar
TheAKAggie
DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING I SAY
Posts: 6360
Joined: February 3rd, 2012, 10:21 pm
Location: Hyde Park, UT
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 592 times
Contact:

Re: I am a little worried

Post by TheAKAggie » April 19th, 2021, 6:37 pm

brownjeans wrote:
2004AG wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 9:23 am
NVAggie wrote:I agree, winning on the court is more important than winning in the recruiting world.
Who is saying otherwise ?

There is an undeniable direct correlation between the two though.
Who is saying otherwise? You can't have a chicken without an egg.

A great chicken farmer can raise a great chicken from average eggs.
A bad chicken farmer can end up with no chickens from great eggs.
In either case - great chickens are the goal.
A cock is needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
These users thanked the author TheAKAggie for the post (total 2):
Aggie formerly in Hawaiibrownjeans


Hail Aggies!

Blitz79
Posts: 2296
Joined: January 16th, 2011, 8:11 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 416 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by Blitz79 » April 19th, 2021, 6:53 pm

I was hoping to get the level of recruit needed to consistently compete for MW championships. So far I don't see it.



User avatar
flying_scotsman2.0
Posts: 3452
Joined: January 23rd, 2018, 12:29 pm
Location: The Mighty City-State of Roy, Utah
Has thanked: 5637 times
Been thanked: 2182 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » April 19th, 2021, 7:06 pm

Blitz79 wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 6:53 pm
I was hoping to get the level of recruit needed to consistently compete for MW championships. So far I don't see it.
I see RJ as the same level as Marco. Maybe not as good defensively, probably a better shooter...

Horvath looks to be as good as big men we’ve had in the past. Both quality signings



Aggie formerly in Hawaii
Posts: 7960
Joined: October 22nd, 2016, 1:06 am
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 2529 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 19th, 2021, 7:09 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 7:06 pm
Blitz79 wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 6:53 pm
I was hoping to get the level of recruit needed to consistently compete for MW championships. So far I don't see it.
I see RJ as the same level as Marco. Maybe not as good defensively, probably a better shooter...

Horvath looks to be as good as big men we’ve had in the past. Both quality signings
Yeah I don't know how we can complain with 2 all conference players committing here. We still have some other scholarships to offer so the jury is still out. So far I'm pleased, but yes we need to add a few more good pieces to be back in the MW mix.
These users thanked the author Aggie formerly in Hawaii for the post:
flying_scotsman2.0



ineptimusprime
Posts: 7646
Joined: November 3rd, 2010, 12:07 pm
Has thanked: 396 times
Been thanked: 4610 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by ineptimusprime » April 19th, 2021, 7:11 pm

Blitz79 wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 6:53 pm
I was hoping to get the level of recruit needed to consistently compete for MW championships. So far I don't see it.
I just don’t get this perspective. Odom was supposed to do better than two first-team all-conference transfers as his first two recruits? It might not translate 100%, but from how these guys look on paper and in highlights, Horvath and Eytle-Rock will do well here.

People expecting guys that were productive at P5 schools to transfer down from the P5 to a mid-major school will be disappointed. IMO, our best bet in the grad transfer market is to get proven players from mid or low-major conferences climbing the ladder, hoping that our improved resources will allow these players to translate their games or even make that next step.

The other options is unproven guys like Marco that rode the pine at a P5 school looking for PT. But even these guys often just go to another P5 school slightly lower down the pole (see Enaruna transfer from Kansas to Iowa St. today).

I am wary of P5 washouts from my years of watching KU basketball. Every guy that was a dud at Kansas that transferred out (and down) remained a bit of a dud. Remember Carlton Bragg at UNM? Maybe not, because he was pretty unremarkable. He was a Kansas guy. The one exception to this that I can think if is Quentin Grimes, who has been very successful at Houston. I prefer to take the “risers” from lower conferences with a chip on their shoulder rather than the “sliders” from P5 schools. But I acknowledge the sliders sometimes are great (see Marco Anthony).
These users thanked the author ineptimusprime for the post:
Aggie formerly in Hawaii



User avatar
Aglicious
Site Admin
Posts: 7106
Joined: January 14th, 2004, 12:00 am
Location: Vega$
Has thanked: 910 times
Been thanked: 2366 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by Aglicious » April 19th, 2021, 11:03 pm

GUS wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 4:59 pm
Don't know how to get it posted here, but I just listened to a podcast of Scotty G. interviewing Coach Odom. It was posted on twitter, but I'm too dumb to know how to make it available here. If you get a chance, it's worth hunting down and listening to. Much different than Odom's press conference. Just listening to it gave me a ton more confidence in Odom.
Still on the front page 'News' of this very site for anyone looking for it.



Aggie84025
Posts: 9301
Joined: September 12th, 2018, 2:01 pm
Has thanked: 2748 times
Been thanked: 4260 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by Aggie84025 » April 20th, 2021, 8:08 am

Aglicious wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 11:03 pm
GUS wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 4:59 pm
Don't know how to get it posted here, but I just listened to a podcast of Scotty G. interviewing Coach Odom. It was posted on twitter, but I'm too dumb to know how to make it available here. If you get a chance, it's worth hunting down and listening to. Much different than Odom's press conference. Just listening to it gave me a ton more confidence in Odom.
Still on the front page 'News' of this very site for anyone looking for it.
I listened yesterday, it was really good. I am super excited for Ryan. I do think he will continue on in sustaining/building the program.



slcagg
Posts: 14098
Joined: December 15th, 2010, 6:29 pm
Has thanked: 4383 times
Been thanked: 4018 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by slcagg » April 20th, 2021, 8:09 am

GUS wrote:
April 19th, 2021, 4:59 pm
Don't know how to get it posted here, but I just listened to a podcast of Scotty G. interviewing Coach Odom. It was posted on twitter, but I'm too dumb to know how to make it available here. If you get a chance, it's worth hunting down and listening to. Much different than Odom's press conference. Just listening to it gave me a ton more confidence in Odom.
Gus here is an easy link.




Aggie formerly in Hawaii
Posts: 7960
Joined: October 22nd, 2016, 1:06 am
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 2529 times

Re: I am a little worried

Post by Aggie formerly in Hawaii » April 20th, 2021, 3:54 pm

Ryan Odom is a great basketball mind. Remember if you are coaching youth basketball, you can learn from the best:

https://www.championshipproductions.com ... N0EALw_wcB



Locked Previous topicNext topic