1. The CSU player miscommunicates and passes the ball out of bounds and they called it our of ashworth. CSU scores on the inbounds.

2. Beans gets called for a foul on the up and under layup that was missed with basically no contact. His fourth foul, he goes to the bench.

3. Bean is in position for an offensive rebound and roddy blatantly goes over the top and they call it out of bounds. Would’ve been his fifth. He scores their next five points to take the lead back.

All three calls were in the last five minutes or so of the game. Anyone of those goes different, we might’ve won the game. I’m not blaming the refs, it’s harder in real time, but on the replays I believe those were bad calls. The announcers even commented on them. But overall, great game against a top team on the road. No shame in losing this one, but we will need to pick some of these Q1 and Q2 games up if we want to get back in the at-large discussion. Great to see the production from ashworth and especially Bairstow. Hopefully they can continue.

Officiating was Sh!t tonight. Pure Sh!t.

The whole game was with the refs wanting to bail out the Rams. We needed to score a lot more and hit all the 3-pointers then watch the refs cry in a corner.

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑

January 12th, 2022, 8:19 pm

1. The CSU player miscommunicates and passes the ball out of bounds and they called it our of ashworth. CSU scores on the inbounds.

2. Beans gets called for a foul on the up and under layup that was missed with basically no contact. His fourth foul, he goes to the bench.

3. Bean is in position for an offensive rebound and roddy blatantly goes over the top and they call it out of bounds. Would’ve been his fifth. He scores their next five points to take the lead back.

All three calls were in the last five minutes or so of the game. Anyone of those goes different, we might’ve won the game. I’m not blaming the refs, it’s harder in real time, but on the replays I believe those were bad calls. The announcers even commented on them. But overall, great game against a top team on the road. No shame in losing this one, but we will need to pick some of these Q1 and Q2 games up if we want to get back in the at-large discussion. Great to see the production from ashworth and especially Bairstow. Hopefully they can continue.

I’ll add couple more

Quick jump ball on Rylan down stretch

Block call instead of charge on Stevens right during our run

Roddy before Bean no call fouled Ashworth and Bean in prior possessions

Foul call on Ashworth with :30 seconds left. We were clearly not trying to foul

First half Horvath going for O board it gets poked out of his hand ball to Rams

This wasn’t a bad call but Rylan TO leading to 3 before half when we could have been down 3-6. That 3 points was difference at 75-72 with 2 seconds left

This was one of the worst reffed games I can remember. Usually the poor calls or borderline calls that could go either way sort of even out over the course of a game but not tonight. Every questionable or blatatly wrong call went in favor of CSU. As a result it directly affected the outcome of the game.

Not saying it decided the winner but it certainly gave the Rams a higher chance of winning than they had earned by their own play on the court.

The no call on Roddy with like 2 minutes left when he body checked Ashworth

aggies22 wrote: ↑

January 12th, 2022, 9:52 pm

Sl7vk wrote: ↑

January 12th, 2022, 8:20 pm

Officiating was Sh!t tonight. Pure Sh!t.

It usually is in games of this magnitude. It will be worse in the rematch.

Beans 5th



His 4th was even better

Now compare that to the 3 fouls Roddy committed that weren’t called that would have sent him to bench

Refs were terrible tonight both ways. Really hard to watch.

...and these calls weren't close, weren't borderline...they were just really bad calls. CSU was laughing when they got the ball back after throwing it out of bounds, almost as if to say, "...you're kidding right, it's not our ball..." They immediately scored two points.

Roddy committed three blatant fouls after picking up his fourth.

The refs were terrible and certainly hurt us. I give credit to CSU coming back with 7 straight points on some tough shots. It sucks that they were willing to take Bean out of the game at the end but wouldn't do the same for Roddy on actual fouls. I hope these refs are reprimanded heavily because they stunk during a very important MWC game.

Reprimanded? They have the players, coaches, and almost all announcers by the 8alls. No one can or will publically say anything for fear of the Zebra police. During the game, a few minor comments were made, but absolutely NO one is willing to state on the record that there were critical failures by the refs. They can't just be guessing who threw the ball out of bounds. There is no way anyone watching that part of the floor could see an aggie touch.

They were plain POOR refs and the Aggies appeared to be screwed over with bad calls more than CSU.

I am not one to complain about the refs...just kidding, I am.....THEY WERE HORRIBLE!! I was ready to take their place.

I've had intramural and church-league referees that were more competent.

The refs were very reactionary instead of actually calling what they SAW on the court. A few plays come to mind:

The errant pass directly out of bounds was so bad that I even assumed the Aggies must have deflected it. The ref obviously thought the same and even though he didn't see an Aggie touch it (none were even close) he made the call based on how bad the pass was. The difference between me and the ref is I was watching from my couch on a small screen from 1 angle. The refs were watching live from three separate angles within a few feet of the ball and are paid to make calls based on what they see with their eyes.

A CSU player in the second half went up for a reverse layup and contorted his body before missing the shot. No Aggies touched him or even really came close. After the ball hit the court and was rebounded the ref made a call based on the blown layup and the way the player shot it.

Bairstow drove to the hoop and utilized his pivot foot but looked awkward picking up his free foot twice and putting it back down before shoveling off a pass to Bean for an easy score. Ref saw the jolting motion and assumed there was a travel there and made the call.

Refs shouldn't make calls based on assumptions, but that's exactly what they did last night. Both ways. There were calls that favored the Aggies as well that were flat out wrong.

The Aggies got a really good whistle in the first 10 minutes of the second half, which led to us reaching the bonus real quick.

WAAggie wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 11:22 am

Reprimanded? They have the players, coaches, and almost all announcers by the 8alls. No one can or will publically say anything for fear of the Zebra police. During the game, a few minor comments were made, but absolutely NO one is willing to state on the record that there were critical failures by the refs. They can't just be guessing who threw the ball out of bounds. There is no way anyone watching that part of the floor could see an aggie touch.

They were plain POOR refs and the Aggies appeared to be screwed over with bad calls more than CSU.

https://i.gifer.com/MFE8.gif

You are all a bunch of babies. You guys were in the bonus 5 minutes into the second half and you’re all claiming you weren’t getting calls? Yes, the refs sucked, but CSU also had a handful of terrible calls against them. Ashworth should learn that he isn’t playing soccer and should be reminded to not fall down every time someone breathes on him. It’s unfortunate that one ref kept rewarding him for dribbling it into multiple defenders and then just falling down. So many of those calls were such bogus. Oh and that “body check” Roddy made on Ashworth that some of you are claiming? Ashworth jumped straight into him and had no position on the basket. Just another example of Ashworth not playing basketball and just trying to draw a foul.

The Rams were the better team. Yes that ball that went out of bounds should’ve been yours, but you got a favorable whistle for a huge part of the game. The refs allowed you to hang around. I think at one point you were up 21-4 in FT attempts. But the refs weren’t giving you any calls… riiiight….

Yes, those calls impact a game. So do all the foul calls that put you in the bonus and allowed you to stay in the game. Also it was Jacobs. We don’t have an Adam’s on our team. And I thought Bean got him with his body. Anyways, it’s not like Bean was winning this game for you. I was actually much more impressed with Horvath and Barstow.

And final FTs were near even bc Utah St was fouling at the end of the game to try to catch up. And we made 14 in a row.

Medved is amazing. He was hired over Craig Smith and I sometimes wonder if CS would’ve been better seeing what he did at USU, but then again he did inherit an NBA guy in Merrill.

I am jealous of your long, athletic big guys - Bean, Horvath, Barstow. I wish we had just one of those guys on our team.

In the end USU had a chance and couldn’t deliver. The refs sucked, but I certainly don’t see it as one sided. They really allowed the Aggies to hang around in the second half.

GoRams wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 1:43 pm

Yes, those calls impact a game. So do all the foul calls that put you in the bonus and allowed you to stay in the game. Also it was Jacobs. We don’t have an Adam’s on our team. And I thought Bean got him with his body. Anyways, it’s not like Bean was winning this game for you. I was actually much more impressed with Horvath and Barstow.

And final FTs were near even bc Utah St was fouling at the end of the game to try to catch up. And we made 14 in a row.

Medved is amazing. He was hired over Craig Smith and I sometimes wonder if CS would’ve been better seeing what he did at USU, but then again he did inherit an NBA guy in Merrill.

I am jealous of your long, athletic big guys - Bean, Horvath, Barstow. I wish we had just one of those guys on our team.

In the end USU had a chance and couldn’t deliver. The refs sucked, but I certainly don’t see it as one sided. They really allowed the Aggies to hang around in the second half.

Welcome to the board, and congrats on the win. Roddy is a beast. Stevens hit some super tough shots. Medved is a great coach. As long as he's there, you guys are in good hands. If I was to identify what I'd see as a potential flaw in the CSU team, it would be the size of your guards. Great shooters with lots of speed, but definitely lacking in size/length. Jalen Lake looks like he could be that for you - just needs to put on some muscle. So I understand why you'd want a Bean/Bairstow/Horvath type guy.

I'm pretty self-aware when it comes to officiating. I understand the glasses I'm wearing (USU). That being said, I also can recognize when we get a gift from the officials (the RJ Eytle rock charge that was called a block). That said, outside of the RJ charge, I can't think of any blatantly bad calls against the Rams. I thought the Ashworth fouls were all legitimate. Body/reaching instead of staying in front. If I was a CSU fan, it might frustrate me, but I would want my team to adjust to the calls and guard differently or do what Ashworth was doing and attack off the dribble.

On the other side - Jacobs wasn't touched on the reverse. I've watched it back. He had as clean a look as you can get. Blatantly bad, and led to Bean going to bench, 2 points, and ultimately Bean fouling out. The turnover out of bounds. Blatantly bad. The block on Ashworth cancelled out the RJ Eytle Rock charge. Looked clearly like a charge to me on Stevens. A bogus travel on Sean Bairstow that was simply a missed call. At the end of the day, blatantly bad, completely missed calls were about 3 or 4 to 1, in favor of the Rams. I thought the Ashworth play involving Roddy was a fine no-call. He initiated the contact. We scored on the play anyway. In a 1 possession game, blatantly missed calls matters, although not as much as our own mistakes- poor 3 point shooting, and I'm thinking specifically about the end of half TO that goes from a scoring opportunity to a 3 for you guys. Potential 5-6 point swing. At the very least, it was 3 points that should never have happened).

The Aggies are on the outside of the bubble, and a win at CSU would've gone a long way to helping our resume'. We needed that win, so we're probably more upset about the officiating than we ought to be. Anyway, good luck until we meet again at the Spectrum.

GoRams wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 1:21 pm

You are all a bunch of babies. You guys were in the bonus 5 minutes into the second half and you’re all claiming you weren’t getting calls? Yes, the refs sucked, but CSU also had a handful of terrible calls against them. Ashworth should learn that he isn’t playing soccer and should be reminded to not fall down every time someone breathes on him. It’s unfortunate that one ref kept rewarding him for dribbling it into multiple defenders and then just falling down. So many of those calls were such bogus. Oh and that “body check” Roddy made on Ashworth that some of you are claiming? Ashworth jumped straight into him and had no position on the basket. Just another example of Ashworth not playing basketball and just trying to draw a foul.

The Rams were the better team. Yes that ball that went out of bounds should’ve been yours, but you got a favorable whistle for a huge part of the game. The refs allowed you to hang around. I think at one point you were up 21-4 in FT attempts. But the refs weren’t giving you any calls… riiiight….

As stated in my post above, Utah State got a decent whistle the first 10 minutes of the second half. After that, not so much. It wouldn't be the USU board if we didn't complain about the reffing, without realizing that some of the calls went our way. Aggie fans do this win or lose.

This thread has me wondering if there is a business opportunity when it comes to reffing. I’m very hesitant to blame losses on ref’s and get annoyed when it is the first thing people jump to. If you were to read this thread prior to GoRams post you would think the calls went 100% against USU. Of course GoRams saw it differently. The business opportunity would be for current college or recently retired NBA or college refs to break down games (with the benefit of instant replay and slow motion)from an unbiased standpoint. This could be a subscription based model where you choose your level of access to teams based on your membership level. As fans we would still probably not agree with the unbiased breakdown, but would be something interesting to look at. I know it is big business in high school sports to send film to a group that sends back full stats for every game. I know this is a bit different as a lot of referees calls are subjective. I don’t think college refs would enjoy this.


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We need to forget an at large bid now. Its not going to happen, unless we win out and I just can't see that happening. We have a couple of major weaknesses.

What the Aggies need to do, IMHO, is just get better each game and try to reach a peak at tournament time and win the whole thing. That's our best chance, with 6 losses (and as many as four more coming) to make the Dance. Otherwise, we'll probably be in the NIT or one of the other alphabet tournaments at the end.

FeartheFro wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 5:58 pm

That thread had me wondering if there is a business opportunity when it comes to reffing. I’m very hesitant to blame losses on ref’s and get annoyed when it is the first thing people jump to. If you were to read this thread prior to GoRams post you would think the calls went 100% against USU. Of course GoRams saw it differently. The business opportunity would be for current college or recently retired NBA or college refs to break down games (with the benefit of instant replay and slow motion)from an unbiased standpoint. This could be a subscription based model where you choose your level of access to teams based on your membership level. As fans we would still probably not agree with the unbiased breakdown, but would be something interesting to look at. I know it is big business in high school sports to send film to a group that sends back full stats for every game. I know this is a bit different as a lot of referees calls are subjective. I don’t think college refs would enjoy this.


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interesting idea. i do find it interesting how fandom skews perspective. i came away from that game thinking the exact same thing GoRams did, except in favor of CSU. i kept saying "these refs are doing all they can to keep CSU and especially Roddy in the game down the stretch. fouls involving contact are almost always going to be subjective so it would be hard to map those type of things but calls that are just simply mistakes and could be easily overturned by video review are the ones that would be worth tracking. everyone can plainly see that a ball thrown out of bounds and awarded back to the same team is a wrong call. a foul call with zero contact is a blown call, there is no judgement involved. we can say, well it was only a couple of calls but in a game decided by a single final possession those calls affected the game in a great way. those two calls alone resulted in 4 points scored that were not earned - they were given as a result of blatant mistakes made by the refs.

i do think tracking these sort of things would be quite enlightening. if for nothing else to see if certain teams are victims of these calls more than others, if certain coaches have biases against them, if certain arenas result in more mistakes by the refs, and especially to see if certain refs are just poor at the their job.

i also don't think looking at the number of fouls committed or called between teams is a good indicator of the accuracy or bias of a ref or a whole crew. fouls can certainly pile up on one team if the opponent is the aggressor or if one team have a style that is based on driving to the hoop. it's just a fact that attacking style will generate more contact and more defenders reaching and fouling. if a team's offensive game plan is to park 4 guys at the arc and pass the ball around the perimeter and shoot 3's then they are not likely going to draw as many fouls. the fact that USU was in the bonus early was completely a result of their style of play. USU was scoring points in the paint, CSU was scoring from the outside.

The Truth wrote:

FeartheFro wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 5:58 pm

That thread had me wondering if there is a business opportunity when it comes to reffing. I’m very hesitant to blame losses on ref’s and get annoyed when it is the first thing people jump to. If you were to read this thread prior to GoRams post you would think the calls went 100% against USU. Of course GoRams saw it differently. The business opportunity would be for current college or recently retired NBA or college refs to break down games (with the benefit of instant replay and slow motion)from an unbiased standpoint. This could be a subscription based model where you choose your level of access to teams based on your membership level. As fans we would still probably not agree with the unbiased breakdown, but would be something interesting to look at. I know it is big business in high school sports to send film to a group that sends back full stats for every game. I know this is a bit different as a lot of referees calls are subjective. I don’t think college refs would enjoy this.


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interesting idea. i do find it interesting how fandom skews perspective. i came away from that game thinking the exact same thing GoRams did, except in favor of CSU. i kept saying "these refs are doing all they can to keep CSU and especially Roddy in the game down the stretch. fouls involving contact are almost always going to be subjective so it would be hard to map those type of things but calls that are just simply mistakes and could be easily overturned by video review are the ones that would be worth tracking. everyone can plainly see that a ball thrown out of bounds and awarded back to the same team is a wrong call. a foul call with zero contact is a blown call, there is no judgement involved. we can say, well it was only a couple of calls but in a game decided by a single final possession those calls affected the game in a great way. those two calls alone resulted in 4 points scored that were not earned - they were given as a result of blatant mistakes made by the refs.

i do think tracking these sort of things would be quite enlightening. if for nothing else to see if certain teams are victims of these calls more than others, if certain coaches have biases against them, if certain arenas result in more mistakes by the refs, and especially to see if certain refs are just poor at the their job.

i also don't think looking at the number of fouls committed or called between teams is a good indicator of the accuracy or bias of a ref or a whole crew. fouls can certainly pile up on one team if the opponent is the aggressor or if one team have a style that is based on driving to the hoop. it's just a fact that attacking style will generate more contact and more defenders reaching and fouling. if a team's offensive game plan is to park 4 guys at the arc and pass the ball around the perimeter and shoot 3's then they are not likely going to draw as many fouls. the fact that USU was in the bonus early was completely a result of their style of play. USU was scoring points in the paint, CSU was scoring from the outside.

Great thoughts. I agree with the complaining about total tram fouls. This is so dependent on what type of defense a team plays or how aggressive they are attacking the rim. It just happens to be a number that a coach can point out to a ref


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I think refs should get paid on commission. Money for correct calls, money taken away for incorrect calls or no calls.

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I don’t know how it works in college, but in the NBA (at least this is how it was done several years ago) the refs sat down almost immediately with Secaucus NJ to go over every call of missed call from the game they just reffed. I saw a documentary on this that was fascinating. I also learned that in the NBA they get most calls right without the luxury of replay or slo mo. There is more bias in seeing how a game is reffed than which political party you support and agree with.


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FeartheFro wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 5:58 pm

This thread has me wondering if there is a business opportunity when it comes to reffing. I’m very hesitant to blame losses on ref’s and get annoyed when it is the first thing people jump to. If you were to read this thread prior to GoRams post you would think the calls went 100% against USU. Of course GoRams saw it differently. The business opportunity would be for current college or recently retired NBA or college refs to break down games (with the benefit of instant replay and slow motion)from an unbiased standpoint. This could be a subscription based model where you choose your level of access to teams based on your membership level. As fans we would still probably not agree with the unbiased breakdown, but would be something interesting to look at. I know it is big business in high school sports to send film to a group that sends back full stats for every game. I know this is a bit different as a lot of referees calls are subjective. I don’t think college refs would enjoy this.


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Rod Tueller used to give my grandpa 4 free tickets to Aggie games in exchange for him evaluating the refs. It could certainly be done, you'd just at have to make sure that the guy you bring in isn't a former player or coach.

Ahbye wrote:

FeartheFro wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 5:58 pm

This thread has me wondering if there is a business opportunity when it comes to reffing. I’m very hesitant to blame losses on ref’s and get annoyed when it is the first thing people jump to. If you were to read this thread prior to GoRams post you would think the calls went 100% against USU. Of course GoRams saw it differently. The business opportunity would be for current college or recently retired NBA or college refs to break down games (with the benefit of instant replay and slow motion)from an unbiased standpoint. This could be a subscription based model where you choose your level of access to teams based on your membership level. As fans we would still probably not agree with the unbiased breakdown, but would be something interesting to look at. I know it is big business in high school sports to send film to a group that sends back full stats for every game. I know this is a bit different as a lot of referees calls are subjective. I don’t think college refs would enjoy this.


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Rod Tueller used to give my grandpa 4 free tickets to Aggie games in exchange for him evaluating the refs. It could certainly be done, you'd just at have to make sure that the guy you bring in isn't a former player or coach.

Interesting. We were his overall thoughts? Was the home team given preferable calls? If he did feel there was a certain ref that seemed to be against Utah State could requests be made to not have that ref return? I know here in utah both high school coaches and refs can remove themselves from certain refs/teams but have a very limited number of times they can use this.


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FeartheFro wrote: ↑

January 13th, 2022, 5:58 pm

This thread has me wondering if there is a business opportunity when it comes to reffing. I’m very hesitant to blame losses on ref’s and get annoyed when it is the first thing people jump to. If you were to read this thread prior to GoRams post you would think the calls went 100% against USU. Of course GoRams saw it differently. The business opportunity would be for current college or recently retired NBA or college refs to break down games (with the benefit of instant replay and slow motion)from an unbiased standpoint. This could be a subscription based model where you choose your level of access to teams based on your membership level. As fans we would still probably not agree with the unbiased breakdown, but would be something interesting to look at. I know it is big business in high school sports to send film to a group that sends back full stats for every game. I know this is a bit different as a lot of referees calls are subjective. I don’t think college refs would enjoy this.


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Why subscription based? People like Jomboy have become millionaires based on witty commentary of video clips. I think that a channel that analyzed the worst ref calls in sports could probably gather a following. Maybe?

To the refs credit we got a ton of free throws and CSU had almost none until late.

I do not disagree that those bad calls made a difference. There were a few in the second period I remember going our way that I was scratching my head on but grateful for nonetheless.