Questions about Prop 1

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Questions about Prop 1

Post by Papajsmurf » October 12th, 2018, 2:36 pm

Looking at prop #1 on ourkids1st.com, If passed the U of U will bring home 6.8 mill and USU around 4.8 Million etc.. I thought that USU with all the satellite campuses had more students than the U? Why are they getting the lions share of the money? How much does this bump up coach Wells pay? Are all the USU coaches hiding behind children (T.V. Ads) for this money?



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by brownjeans » October 12th, 2018, 3:20 pm

I don't see a proposition 1.
https://elections.utah.gov/2018-election-information

If you're referring to "Nonbinding Opinion Question" our votes don't enact a law. Personally I don't like this law and will vote Against.

They're combining education and transportation. It smells to me like they're using children (education) as grease to get a roads bill passed.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by DaKineKane » October 12th, 2018, 3:52 pm

There are more students that attend the U. of Utah than all of the satellite campuses and Logan campus combined.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by TheAKAggie » October 12th, 2018, 5:36 pm

brownjeans wrote:I don't see a proposition 1.
https://elections.utah.gov/2018-election-information

If you're referring to "Nonbinding Opinion Question" our votes don't enact a law. Personally I don't like this law and will vote Against.

They're combining education and transportation. It smells to me like they're using children (education) as grease to get a roads bill passed.
Yes, the reasoning behind this is the Our Schools Now initiative, which put itself on hold to try and get the legislature to increase classroom funds. There was an income tax proposed, a sales tax income tax proposal, then the legislature said they have been pushing money towards roads instead of education, so if this passes it can go back to the classrooms.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by Jjoey53 » October 12th, 2018, 5:47 pm

Voted against everyone except the military service one. The Utah GOP act more like Dems everyday, they haven’t met a tax they didn’t like.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by BearLakeMonster » October 12th, 2018, 9:28 pm

None of the money will go to higher education at USU or UofU. It can only be used to pay teachers or manage class sizes. It will be paid for by a 10 cent per gallon increase in the state gas tax.

IMO, it's a terrible solution. Our Schools Now should have stuck with their initiative that would have increased the funding through sales and income taxes.

The gas tax puts the cost burden on the wrong population.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by dyedblue » October 12th, 2018, 10:20 pm

BearLakeMonster wrote:None of the money will go to higher education at USU or UofU. It can only be used to pay teachers or manage class sizes. It will be paid for by a 10 cent per gallon increase in the state gas tax.

IMO, it's a terrible solution. Our Schools Now should have stuck with their initiative that would have increased the funding through sales and income taxes.

The gas tax puts the cost burden on the wrong population.

Fact #1: 100% of all Utah income tax goes to education.

Fact #2: 45% of your property tax (average) goes to eduction. That is more than your county, city, fire and water districts, etc spend combined.

Fact #3: I paid more than $500 in fees for my two high school students. That is class fees, none of which are sports or activity related.

Where is all that money going? It certainly isn't into the teacher's pocket so where is it going? I feel our tax burden for education is sufficient and am reluctant to support increasing it until after a full accounting (audit) is completed and we can see exactly where the holes are and where the waste is.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by TheAKAggie » October 12th, 2018, 11:02 pm

dyedblue wrote:
BearLakeMonster wrote:None of the money will go to higher education at USU or UofU. It can only be used to pay teachers or manage class sizes. It will be paid for by a 10 cent per gallon increase in the state gas tax.

IMO, it's a terrible solution. Our Schools Now should have stuck with their initiative that would have increased the funding through sales and income taxes.

The gas tax puts the cost burden on the wrong population.

Fact #1: 100% of all Utah income tax goes to education.

Fact #2: 45% of your property tax (average) goes to eduction. That is more than your county, city, fire and water districts, etc spend combined.

Fact #3: I paid more than $500 in fees for my two high school students. That is class fees, none of which are sports or activity related.

Where is all that money going? It certainly isn't into the teacher's pocket so where is it going? I feel our tax burden for education is sufficient and am reluctant to support increasing it until after a full accounting (audit) is completed and we can see exactly where the holes are and where the waste is.


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It’s almost like a bunch of single income families are having a ton of kids or something.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by Jjoey53 » October 12th, 2018, 11:16 pm

Too many positions that are not teaching. Admin, counseling, HR, and others. Cuts should be made on non teaching spots.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by ustate98 » October 29th, 2018, 2:30 pm

I voted against it, we already pay 47.81 cents per gallon (18.40 Fed, 29.41 Utah), that's enough. Factor in how our gas prices are already high enough. My parents live in Missouri and their 87 octane (they don't have 85 octane, I think it's only higher elevation areas) is always about 50-60 cents cheaper per gallon that we pay for 87 octane.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by thegreendalegelf » October 30th, 2018, 2:44 pm

I like giving money to education. I also like giving people a reason to be more fuel conscious. Push people towards higher MPG and electrical vehicles. Good things on both sides.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by Jjoey53 » October 30th, 2018, 3:27 pm

thegreendalegelf wrote:I like giving money to education. I also like giving people a reason to be more fuel conscious. Push people towards higher MPG and electrical vehicles. Good things on both sides.

You are free to donate as much as you like to the state. Just don’t make the rest of us do it. Vote no


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by NVAggie » October 31st, 2018, 7:40 am

The last gas tax increase by the state of Utah was touted the same way. They only include education so that it will tug on the heart strings. The last increase was mostly used for roads. No thank you.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by dhilk3785 » October 31st, 2018, 1:29 pm

I voted yes.

Per a September report from Channel 4 Good4Utah:

"If voters say yes, a 10-cent per gallon tax will be added to your fuel; three cents will go to roads, and seven cents would go straight to the Teacher and Student Success Account.

The TSSA will funnel $150 per student per school year to individual schools based on enrollment. Schools will only have access to the funds if they create a plan for the money that will directly lead to student academic success in the classroom, and is approved by their local school board."

https://www.good4utah.com/news/local-ne ... 1424059642


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by 2004AG » October 31st, 2018, 1:34 pm

dhilk3785 wrote:I voted yes.

Per a September report from Channel 4 Good4Utah:

"If voters say yes, a 10-cent per gallon tax will be added to your fuel; three cents will go to roads, and seven cents would go straight to the Teacher and Student Success Account.

The TSSA will funnel $150 per student per school year to individual schools based on enrollment. Schools will only have access to the funds if they create a plan for the money that will directly lead to student academic success in the classroom, and is approved by their local school board."

https://www.good4utah.com/news/local-ne ... 1424059642
Good intentions seem to have a way of not happening in the long run.

I voted no too.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by dyedblue » October 31st, 2018, 5:51 pm

There is no guarantee and the initial compromise said 8 to education 2 to roads. That changed quickly


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by TheAKAggie » October 31st, 2018, 5:56 pm

dyedblue wrote:There is no guarantee and the initial compromise said 8 to education 2 to roads. That changed quickly


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I wish our schools now would gave stuck to their guns and agreed to this.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by blueblood » October 31st, 2018, 7:08 pm

My issue is look who is behind it. Gail Miller and Scott Anderson (Zion’s Bank CEO). If they want to give more of their excess, they are free to give. But don’t do it with a progressive tax increase. The lower income people spend a much higher % of their income on the basic necessities. I’m sure that Gail and Scott only spend 0.00001% of their income on gas. A family with an income of $40,000 could spend 3-5% of their annual income on gas. An increase in the gas tax absolutely kills the lower income folks.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by GUS » October 31st, 2018, 7:32 pm

Jjoey53 wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 11:16 pm
Too many positions that are not teaching. Admin, counseling, HR, and others. Cuts should be made on non teaching spots.


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Nailed it. Just like UTA. They need to fix the problems before asking for more.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by Jjoey53 » October 31st, 2018, 9:11 pm

dhilk3785 wrote:I voted yes.

Per a September report from Channel 4 Good4Utah:

"If voters say yes, a 10-cent per gallon tax will be added to your fuel; three cents will go to roads, and seven cents would go straight to the Teacher and Student Success Account.

The TSSA will funnel $150 per student per school year to individual schools based on enrollment. Schools will only have access to the funds if they create a plan for the money that will directly lead to student academic success in the classroom, and is approved by their local school board."

https://www.good4utah.com/news/local-ne ... 1424059642

If you are so interested in giving the state money, I suggest you get your checkbook out and write a real big check to the State of Utah, but do not force the rest of us to pay for additional spending. I proudly voted no.

Btw, they just raised it a year ago.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by utaggies » November 1st, 2018, 2:33 pm

Jjoey53 wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 11:16 pm
Too many positions that are not teaching. Admin, counseling, HR, and others. Cuts should be made on non teaching spots.


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You are misinformed about the facts.

http://www.governing.com/topics/educati ... tates.html

Utah is #49 in the nation in per-student administrative/non-teaching costs.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by utaggies » November 1st, 2018, 2:42 pm

The most approrpriate way to augment Utah's education program would be through a head tax. But most Utahns are in the "get-something-for-nothing" frame of mind. We Aggies are like that, too. We want to field a MWC champion-caliber team year in and year out but do so by funding our program with a near the bottom budget.

I'm all for increasing our education expenditures, be that through a gas tax increase, head tax, income tax increase or other means. Period.

And no, I am not a teacher and no I do not have any children in the school system.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by USUaggie » November 1st, 2018, 4:37 pm

Something for nothing? We need to tax drivers of electric cars. They should pay a surcharge when they purchase the vehicle instead of getting a tax break since they are not paying the gas tax for roads. Or charge a per mile tax. If we are all driving electric cars in 10 to 20 years we need to figure out how to pay for the infrastructure.

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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by utaggies » November 1st, 2018, 4:58 pm

USUaggie wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 4:37 pm
Something for nothing? We need to tax drivers of electric cars. They should pay a surcharge when they purchase the vehicle instead of getting a tax break since they are not paying the gas tax for roads. Or charge a per mile tax. If we are all driving electric cars in 10 to 20 years we need to figure out how to pay for the infrastructure.

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I agree.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by dyedblue » November 1st, 2018, 7:12 pm

What are school fees if not a head tax?


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by utaggies » November 1st, 2018, 7:59 pm

dyedblue wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 7:12 pm
What are school fees if not a head tax?


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School fees are collected for elective participatory activities of students. These include sports, cheer leading, band, drill team, student government, performing arts, etc. They don't go to cover the costs of a basic education. The average fee collected last year per student was $250. That amount is less than 4% of the average per-pupil expenditure for primary and secondary education in Utah.

Why not have families that have more than 3 children in the public school system pay increasingly more for the state to educate those additional children?

In Utah we believe in the concept of "user pays" until it comes to public education. I believe the public has a responsibility to help pay for the cost of educating the state's children. But those that contribute more to the burden should help bear the greater cost.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by dyedblue » November 1st, 2018, 8:13 pm

My kids don't participate in any of those activities... The fees are for basic classes they are taking. I have no problem helping pay for my kid's education, but 48% property tax, 100% income tax, and $500 in fees should cover a lot of the costs. Right?


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by TheAKAggie » November 1st, 2018, 8:52 pm

dyedblue wrote:My kids don't participate in any of those activities... The fees are for basic classes they are taking. I have no problem helping pay for my kid's education, but 48% property tax, 100% income tax, and $500 in fees should cover a lot of the costs. Right?


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Is the fee the teacher saying “please give $x.xx for supplies”? Or the school saying “pay $x.xx or your child can’t attend”?


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by dyedblue » November 1st, 2018, 8:55 pm

I think I have been pretty clear, it is a list of fees - cash - money to attend and take classes. This is high school, not elementary school.

I'm not talking Kleenex and crayons.


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by TheAKAggie » November 1st, 2018, 10:07 pm

dyedblue wrote:I think I have been pretty clear, it is a list of fees - cash - money to attend and take classes. This is high school, not elementary school.

I'm not talking Kleenex and crayons.


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But what kind of fees?!?


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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by utaggies » November 1st, 2018, 11:53 pm

I doubt your kids are being charged for taking a math or English class, unless there was some kind of travel activity associated with the class or if the class was an advanced placement or college credit class. Here's the audit that was recently done on fees charged by school districts:

https://schools.utah.gov/file/746e31d4- ... d652dc3616

Please identify the specific class your kids were charged a fee for and the fee charged and then we can talk specifics instead of generalities.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by bullshot » November 6th, 2018, 8:10 am

Utah has the highest birth rate in the nation by a long shot, plus our seniors live much longer than the national average. A few minor factors, but still worth noting are that Utah has a very low amount of students in private schools, high autism and asthma rates compared to other states, and we are still last in per pupil spending. As long as “children” are a spiritual decision and not an economic consideration for our legislature nothing will change. A head tax would help, but it ain’t happening here anytime soon.



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by brownjeans » November 6th, 2018, 8:20 am

I'd feel better about paying more taxes for public education if public education provided equal access. This would require all schools to be funded equally based on enrollment. It would also require all extra donations to be put into a pool and divided equally based on enrollment (ending direct, private donations to a specific school).



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by NVAggie » November 6th, 2018, 9:31 am

So some rich guy can't put in a new football field material on his own dime?



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Re: Questions about Prop 1

Post by 2004AG » November 6th, 2018, 9:36 am

brownjeans wrote:I'd feel better about paying more taxes for public education if public education provided equal access. This would require all schools to be funded equally based on enrollment. It would also require all extra donations to be put into a pool and divided equally based on enrollment (ending direct, private donations to a specific school).
Ya and all the extra donations would dry up to zero.


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