Vet School?

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Vet School?

Post by Aggie19 » January 14th, 2022, 11:08 pm

This has been discussed in the past as a huge deal for the school, and potentially athletics through future donors, looks like it might be gaining some traction. Anybody know any more about this and the likelihood it will happen?

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/14/ ... mfort-pets
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Re: Vet School?

Post by Aggie84025 » January 14th, 2022, 11:58 pm

I read the article, pretty interesting stuff. I look forward to USU getting a Vet School in the next few years. Hopefully everything gets approved.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by NowhereLandAggie » January 15th, 2022, 1:38 am

Aggie19 wrote:
January 14th, 2022, 11:08 pm
This has been discussed in the past as a huge deal for the school, and potentially athletics through future donors, looks like it might be gaining some traction. Anybody know any more about this and the likelihood it will happen?

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/14/ ... mfort-pets
I asked Noelle Cockett about the proposed collaboration between USU and WSU before the legislature passed it. She was the Dean of the College of Agriculture and VP of Cooperative Extension at the time. She was obviously quite excited about it, and they had support from some of the rural legislators.

My guess is that there is still support because of the Vet shortage in rural areas. The biggest resistance came from a Utah County Professor that was mad about the fact this could detract from BYU's microbiology department. Her attempts to hold it up amounted to the most futile attempt at obstruction ever seen according to several observers. John Dougall also spoke against it saying we should be investing in the students instead.

I would think if they are going public like this, it probably has a pretty good chance and they are just looking for further public support.

Here was the reference to what was passed along to me.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10566&p=34950&hilit=Vet#p34950
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Re: Vet School?

Post by jpswensen » January 15th, 2022, 1:43 am

Our church congregations will get a lot smaller in Pullman without the influx of USU students every year. We consistently have 20-25 young family doing their final 2 years here. We occasionally get some that do all 4 years here.

I did read an article in the WSU Magazine about a year ago that the US has a shortage of veterinarians, so maybe there is enough demand to get both vet school there and here filled and we will still get a good number of USU grads.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by 72AgGrad » January 15th, 2022, 4:45 pm

I think it well past the time for USU to have a Vet school. In many other related fields, such as animal and dairy science, USU has been well known for a long time. Over the years, most of the vets I have dealt with have come from Colorado State, though my current dog doc came from WSU.

I can see no good reason for USU not to have a full on veterinary degree.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » January 15th, 2022, 6:06 pm

USU should not only have a vet school, but a medical school as well. The state of Utah is garbage when it comes to medical education. Of course there’s that old legislation about it that’s been mentioned on here in the past.



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Re: Vet School?

Post by jpswensen » January 15th, 2022, 6:54 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:06 pm
USU should not only have a vet school, but a medical school as well. The state of Utah is garbage when it comes to medical education. Of course there’s that old legislation about it that’s been mentioned on here in the past.
Washington State used to have a law on the books that UW could be the only state-sponsored medical school in the state. That law was recently changed and WSU now has a medical school with a primary focus of generating doctors interested in working in rural areas. Prior to the new WSU Medical campus in Spokane, there wasn't a single medical school campus between UW and Grand Forks, ND (though UW does still have the WWAMI program that includes schools in WA, WY, AK, MT, and ID).

Edit: There is a DO school in Yakima that started in 2008 that I didn't know about and a DO school in Boise that started in 2018.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by ViAggie » January 16th, 2022, 1:03 am

Stoked for this
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Re: Vet School?

Post by dirtnsnow » January 16th, 2022, 8:56 am

How about a law school specializing in environmental law?
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Re: Vet School?

Post by bwcrc » January 16th, 2022, 1:50 pm

dirtnsnow wrote:
January 16th, 2022, 8:56 am
How about a law school specializing in environmental law?
We already have enough attorneys (says one of the attorneys on the board). And I highly doubt the ewts would allow USU to add a law, medical, or other professional grad program that would compete with them. IIRC from other people on the board before, there was a large struggle for USU to expand some of its business and engineering programs to add graduate degrees. While yBU may try to keep USU down athletically, the ewts have done it both athletically and academically.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by dirtnsnow » January 16th, 2022, 4:55 pm

bwcrc wrote:
January 16th, 2022, 1:50 pm
dirtnsnow wrote:
January 16th, 2022, 8:56 am
How about a law school specializing in environmental law?
We already have enough attorneys (says one of the attorneys on the board). And I highly doubt the ewts would allow USU to add a law, medical, or other professional grad program that would compete with them. IIRC from other people on the board before, there was a large struggle for USU to expand some of its business and engineering programs to add graduate degrees. While yBU may try to keep USU down athletically, the ewts have done it both athletically and academically.
With the right approach, I think you could get the legislature to do it. Something about how small time Utah (the state itself) seems with only one university for those professions.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by Intermeddler » January 16th, 2022, 7:44 pm

bwcrc wrote:
January 16th, 2022, 1:50 pm
dirtnsnow wrote:
January 16th, 2022, 8:56 am
How about a law school specializing in environmental law?
We already have enough attorneys (says one of the attorneys on the board). And I highly doubt the ewts would allow USU to add a law, medical, or other professional grad program that would compete with them. IIRC from other people on the board before, there was a large struggle for USU to expand some of its business and engineering programs to add graduate degrees. While yBU may try to keep USU down athletically, the ewts have done it both athletically and academically.
Agreed. USU couldn’t support a law school. However, the infusion of national firms opening offices in SLC has really absorbed a lot of Utah and BYU grads. For the first time since I’ve been in law school or practicing, it is a student favorable market in our area but even with that I don’t think there’s demand for more law students in Utah. BYU and Utah are graduating about 250 a year between them right now. Add to that a lot of LDS people who want to come back and it would be hard for USU to penetrate the legal market even with the influx of new firms.

A vet school on the other hand is desperately needed and would be perfect for USU



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Re: Vet School?

Post by LKGates » January 17th, 2022, 12:48 am

jpswensen wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:54 pm
flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:06 pm
USU should not only have a vet school, but a medical school as well. The state of Utah is garbage when it comes to medical education. Of course there’s that old legislation about it that’s been mentioned on here in the past.
Washington State used to have a law on the books that UW could be the only state-sponsored medical school in the state. That law was recently changed and WSU now has a medical school with a primary focus of generating doctors interested in working in rural areas. Prior to the new WSU Medical campus in Spokane, there wasn't a single medical school campus between UW and Grand Forks, ND (though UW does still have the WWAMI program that includes schools in WA, WY, AK, MT, and ID).

Edit: There is a DO school in Yakima that started in 2008 that I didn't know about and a DO school in Boise that started in 2018.
A big limiting factor for any healthcare professions school; medical, dental, nursing, and even veterinary, is a sufficiently large patient base. Logan simply doesn't have it. That's why the nursing program is a cooperative program with Weber State, to give the students access to the hospital in Ogden. Even the vet school proposal is going to rely on dispersing the students around the state for their clinicals.

By the way, the reason that Spokane could work as a base for a medical school is that it already was a regional center for tertiary care, with two huge hospitals, Holy Family at almost 700 beds, and Deaconess at almost 400 beds. By comparison, University of Utah hospital is about 760 beds. Spokane had a level 1 trauma center (highest ranking), and a heart transplant program even before it had a medical school.

And that whole thing about "focusing on producing primary care physicians" is complete bravo sierra. When you graduate from WSU medical school, they don't put a little sticker on your diploma that says "the school has a special emphasis on primary care, so don't take this kid in a neurosurgery program". An MD degree is completely fungible. Once you have it, you can go anywhere and do anything, as long as you can convince someone to take you. Kids make their decisions based on many factors, including how much you enjoy the particular specialty and potential income. Me, personally, if they'd told me that I had to do family medicine, general internal medicine, or general pediatrics, I'd have quit and switched to a PhD in biochemistry. Not that there is anything intrinsically wrong with those programs, but primary care just didn't and doesn't appeal to me. And often times, you don't figure that out until you're three years into medical school, so it doesn't work to say "well, we're going to attract medical school applicants who want to do primary care up front". They may think they want to do that, but they don't really know until they've gotten their feet wet.

Sorry for the rambling post.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by GordoAggie » January 17th, 2022, 6:23 pm

Nursing is no longer coop with Weber.
We have had our own program for a few years.
My daughter graduated in the first usu only class.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by TheAKAggie » January 17th, 2022, 7:09 pm

LKGates wrote:
jpswensen wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:54 pm
flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:06 pm
USU should not only have a vet school, but a medical school as well. The state of Utah is garbage when it comes to medical education. Of course there’s that old legislation about it that’s been mentioned on here in the past.
Washington State used to have a law on the books that UW could be the only state-sponsored medical school in the state. That law was recently changed and WSU now has a medical school with a primary focus of generating doctors interested in working in rural areas. Prior to the new WSU Medical campus in Spokane, there wasn't a single medical school campus between UW and Grand Forks, ND (though UW does still have the WWAMI program that includes schools in WA, WY, AK, MT, and ID).

Edit: There is a DO school in Yakima that started in 2008 that I didn't know about and a DO school in Boise that started in 2018.
A big limiting factor for any healthcare professions school; medical, dental, nursing, and even veterinary, is a sufficiently large patient base. Logan simply doesn't have it. That's why the nursing program is a cooperative program with Weber State, to give the students access to the hospital in Ogden. Even the vet school proposal is going to rely on dispersing the students around the state for their clinicals.

By the way, the reason that Spokane could work as a base for a medical school is that it already was a regional center for tertiary care, with two huge hospitals, Holy Family at almost 700 beds, and Deaconess at almost 400 beds. By comparison, University of Utah hospital is about 760 beds. Spokane had a level 1 trauma center (highest ranking), and a heart transplant program even before it had a medical school.

And that whole thing about "focusing on producing primary care physicians" is complete bravo sierra. When you graduate from WSU medical school, they don't put a little sticker on your diploma that says "the school has a special emphasis on primary care, so don't take this kid in a neurosurgery program". An MD degree is completely fungible. Once you have it, you can go anywhere and do anything, as long as you can convince someone to take you. Kids make their decisions based on many factors, including how much you enjoy the particular specialty and potential income. Me, personally, if they'd told me that I had to do family medicine, general internal medicine, or general pediatrics, I'd have quit and switched to a PhD in biochemistry. Not that there is anything intrinsically wrong with those programs, but primary care just didn't and doesn't appeal to me. And often times, you don't figure that out until you're three years into medical school, so it doesn't work to say "well, we're going to attract medical school applicants who want to do primary care up front". They may think they want to do that, but they don't really know until they've gotten their feet wet.

Sorry for the rambling post.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by Yossarian » January 17th, 2022, 8:37 pm

How about a pharmacy school? Are they generally linked to medical schools or are they independent?

USU did have some unique programs. The outdoor rec technology and development program is the only one of its kind in the country.

I would like to see them continue pushing entrepreurship programs, too.

Also, at one time USU was starting a nuclear engineering program. I don't know if that ever got off the ground. I think it is going to be a big part of the future and it would be good for USU to get ahead of the curve and lead this industry.


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Re: Vet School?

Post by travelingagg » January 18th, 2022, 12:15 pm

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:06 pm
USU should not only have a vet school, but a medical school as well. The state of Utah is garbage when it comes to medical education. Of course there’s that old legislation about it that’s been mentioned on here in the past.
Utah is consistently ranking among the healthiest states in America's Health Rankings, most recently ranking 7th in the U.S. However, Utah has been among the five worse performing states by the measure of access to primary care providers. Utah needs more primary care providers, and taking steps to graduate more MDs and DOs in the PC provider space could help.
https://assets.americashealthrankings.o ... report.pdf


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Re: Vet School?

Post by Yossarian » January 18th, 2022, 12:59 pm

travelingagg wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 12:15 pm
flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:06 pm
USU should not only have a vet school, but a medical school as well. The state of Utah is garbage when it comes to medical education. Of course there’s that old legislation about it that’s been mentioned on here in the past.
Utah is consistently ranking among the healthiest states in America's Health Rankings, most recently ranking 7th in the U.S. However, Utah has been among the five worse performing states by the measure of access to primary care providers. Utah needs more primary care providers, and taking steps to graduate more MDs and DOs in the PC provider space could help.
https://assets.americashealthrankings.o ... report.pdf
All the increased population growth (and cars, houses, factories, etc. that come with it) along the Wasatch Front can't be helping Utah's health. That winter inversion is one of the main things that keeps me from wanting to move there. If I was to move back to Utah, I would avoid the Wasatch Front.


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Re: Vet School?

Post by flying_scotsman2.0 » January 18th, 2022, 1:16 pm

travelingagg wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 12:15 pm
flying_scotsman2.0 wrote:
January 15th, 2022, 6:06 pm
USU should not only have a vet school, but a medical school as well. The state of Utah is garbage when it comes to medical education. Of course there’s that old legislation about it that’s been mentioned on here in the past.
Utah is consistently ranking among the healthiest states in America's Health Rankings, most recently ranking 7th in the U.S. However, Utah has been among the five worse performing states by the measure of access to primary care providers. Utah needs more primary care providers, and taking steps to graduate more MDs and DOs in the PC provider space could help.
https://assets.americashealthrankings.o ... report.pdf
I agree, but graduating more students is not enough. The two DO schools in the state have essentially tripled the medical graduates in Utah. However, the research has shown that physicians are more likely to stay in the state where they complete residency training.

Where I think USU should fall in all of this is as a medical school with a focus on primary care and rural medicine. @LKGates is 100% right, you can’t grant a degree with the stipulation that the graduate go into either primary care or rural medicine. But with some state funding and choice partnerships, USU could be a vessel to greatly improve medical education in Utah. Be innovative. Partner with IHC and send students for main clinical rotations to McKay-Dee, iMed, and Utah Valley Hospital. Make a strong partnership with Logan regional to expand its services and incorporate students. It could be the Logan Regional/USU Hospital. With growth over time it could become a strong academic center. Then partner with rural community hospitals to train students and eventually residents. USU has satellite campuses all over the state, use them. Third- and fourth-year medical students no longer need to be near campus with the virtual learning environment were in.

Then think of the research possibilities. USU could be a leader in space medical research with a potential manned mission to Mars and the Space dynamics lab, imagine USU helping to lead space medicine research. Or the applications a top engineering department could do with a medical school and hundreds of research-driven students to provide cheap labor.

Yeah, students would go into the specialty of their choice, as they should be able to, but think how these programs could strengthen rural health in Utah in addition to providing more physicians to a state with a growing population and current physician shortage.
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Re: Vet School?

Post by Mr. Sneelock » January 18th, 2022, 1:39 pm

We definitely don't need another law school in Utah.


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Re: Vet School?

Post by Yossarian » January 18th, 2022, 1:55 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 1:39 pm
We definitely don't need another law school in Utah.
I am aware of the UofU's law school and the J. Reuben Clark Law School at BYU. Are there any others?

Also - does the Clark law school at BYU have the same ecclesiastical endorsement and honor code requirements as the main school? If so, I agree that the state could benefit from another law school option.


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Re: Vet School?

Post by NVAggie » January 18th, 2022, 1:55 pm

Lawyers just trying to protect their interests.



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Re: Vet School?

Post by Mr. Sneelock » January 18th, 2022, 1:59 pm

Yossarian wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 1:55 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 1:39 pm
We definitely don't need another law school in Utah.
I am aware of the UofU's law school and the J. Reuben Clark Law School at BYU. Are there any others?

Also - does the Clark law school at BYU have the same ecclesiastical endorsement and honor code requirements as the main school? If so, I agree that the state could benefit from another law school option.
There are no others, but the Utah market is flooded with new lawyers every spring. I just don't think the market size can support it. There are also a lot of lawyers from schools around the country that want to come back to Utah. Nobody straight out of school is coming for my job or anything, so I am definitely not saying this from a place of self-interest . Just as an insider in the profession I definitely don't think we need another law school pumping out lawyers in the Utah market. The market just isn't big enough (yet).
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Re: Vet School?

Post by Intermeddler » January 18th, 2022, 3:17 pm

Mr. Sneelock wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 1:59 pm
Yossarian wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 1:55 pm
Mr. Sneelock wrote:
January 18th, 2022, 1:39 pm
We definitely don't need another law school in Utah.
I am aware of the UofU's law school and the J. Reuben Clark Law School at BYU. Are there any others?

Also - does the Clark law school at BYU have the same ecclesiastical endorsement and honor code requirements as the main school? If so, I agree that the state could benefit from another law school option.
There are no others, but the Utah market is flooded with new lawyers every spring. I just don't think the market size can support it. There are also a lot of lawyers from schools around the country that want to come back to Utah. Nobody straight out of school is coming for my job or anything, so I am definitely not saying this from a place of self-interest . Just as an insider in the profession I definitely don't think we need another law school pumping out lawyers in the Utah market. The market just isn't big enough (yet).
Emphasis on yet. Between KE, GT, Wilson, and a couple others there could be demand for 50-100 more lawyers every year. Of course, I still don't think that would justify another school, but the SLC legal market is crazy right now. Maybe BYU bumps their class size back to 150 from 120 and more grads stay in Utah.



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Re: Vet School?

Post by bwcrc » January 18th, 2022, 6:02 pm

I had a friend at USU (2002-2003 timeframe) whose sister graduated from law school at UPenn and the school was pissed she went back to Utah because her starting salary was so low and in a bad way impacted the average for them. Around this same time, the court clerk for the court in Logan who I got to know during my internship said he had offers from firms offering about $30k a year to start, and the firms were acting like there were doing him a favor with the salary. Not sure if Utah is still so cheap with salaries, but I think it is more common for those who have a family connection to Utah to go back after law school. Of those I was in law school with that were from Utah, the vast majority immediately went back to Utah after graduating. So while business in Utah is booming and the population is growing, I doubt there will be a problem of not having enough lawyers.



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Re: Vet School?

Post by WAAggie » January 18th, 2022, 6:11 pm

Daughters applying to med schools. Utah is quite expensive, (out of state) and ranked well and selective. The town of Roslyn in WA is famous due to a tv show that required a md to go to a “Alaska rural practice”

Son is in law school, in NH and found that Law firms are Leary of byu lawyers wanting to soon go back home to the state if Utah where they can be near family/culture.


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Re: Vet School?

Post by Papajsmurf » January 21st, 2022, 3:23 pm

In Gov Cox state of the state address he said he wanted to almost double what was spent last year on edu. I know what he want and what is appropriated is two different things, but could this be some of the funding?



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