Why silent protest was right, and critics are wrong

NIrishAg · Post by **NIrishAg** » December 1st, 2011, 9:53 am

isrred wrote:Of course it was "planned and deliberate". Do you think that we have SO much power that we can convince 3,000 students to sit and do nothing for the EXACT SAME amount of time without some sort of planning and deliberate coordination??

Where you are wrong is that it was not planned before getting slapped in the face with threat after threat after threat upon taking our seats at the game. Sure we were miffed about the apology, but people were over it. The "protest" wasn't decided or coordinated until a little before game time.

And back to my original response that in the past when the admin has made threats about specific chants the students just brushed it off and did them anyway as a unified section, knowing that if they stuck together there wasn't anything the admin could do short of throwing out the ENTIRE student section. Instead, the response was to collectively sit on their hands and hurt the team.

JonnyCienPesos · Post by **JonnyCienPesos** » December 1st, 2011, 9:56 am

In my opinion, the students just need to continue with the chants as a group. What are they going to do?...remove the entire student body?

Seldomseensmith · Post by **Seldomseensmith** » December 1st, 2011, 10:05 am

I love it how alumni are posting how much they support Aggie basketball and will continue to do so regardless. Well, it isn't alumni that have made the Spectrum a special place. A home court that almost any college basketball program would love to have. It's the students. The students who are rowdy, who take time to make signs, come up with cheers. It's student noise, student support, student time and energy that makes the Spectrum what it is. Oh, alumni may donate, they may show up, but they don't make the noise or make the Spectrum. Some have posted how the students are "immature". Well, DUH! They're college students, they haven't reached the point of being old, stodgy, and anal retentive like so many mature alumni. Once that enthusiasm is beaten down, once they feel like they're at odds with the admin, their support for Aggie basketball won't be the same. Some can call it immature and selfish, but it doesn't really matter what alumni, some posters on this board, or Albrecht think. The students, especially the rowdy ones, will find something better to spend their time on, go their own way, and some alumni and Albrecht can be content that the Spectrum is now under control and they won't be offended, or offend their big brothers at BYU any longer.

isrred · Post by **isrred** » December 1st, 2011, 10:10 am

Seldomseensmith wrote:I love it how alumni are posting how much they support Aggie basketball and will continue to do so regardless. Well, it isn't alumni that have made the Spectrum a special place. A home court that almost any college basketball program would love to have. It's the students. The students who are rowdy, who take time to make signs, come up with cheers. It's student noise, student support, student time and energy that makes the Spectrum what it is. Oh, alumni may donate, they may show up, but they don't make the noise or make the Spectrum. Some have posted how the students are "immature". Well, DUH! They're college students, they haven't reached the point of being old, stodgy, and anal retentive like so many mature alumni. Once that enthusiasm is beaten down, once they feel like they're at odds with the admin, their support for Aggie basketball won't be the same. Some can call it immature and selfish, but it doesn't really matter what alumni, some posters on this board, or Albrecht think. The students, especially the rowdy ones, will find something better to spend their time on, go their own way, and some alumni and Albrecht can be content that the Spectrum is now under control and they won't be offended, or offend their big brothers at BYU any longer.

And the students are your FUTURE donors and FUTURE alumni. Once you stop forcefully taking their money through the student athletics fee, how are you going to get them to continue to donate time, money, and support if you go out of your way to take the fun out of it? I have AMAZING memories that will last me a lifetime that center around my support of Aggie athletics, but if you stop creating those experiences and taking the fun out of it, who is going to be your stodgy, "mature", alumni and donors in the future?

brian5562 · Post by **brian5562** » December 1st, 2011, 10:14 am

I agree with what the students did. It was brief, legal, and sent a message. Many of these same students slept outside in the cold for multiple days to cheer on the Aggies vs. byu. Many of these same students took the time and money to travel and watch their Aggies on the road last year.

So many of us are concerned with the actions of others something we can't control. If it bothers you so much then buy a ticket go to the game and scream your head off, wear blue, anf stand and sing the fight song.

JonnyCienPesos · Post by **JonnyCienPesos** » December 1st, 2011, 10:16 am

Here's the other problem with this...while I think the administration shoud take back their demands, they can't now. In essence what they would now be saying is "go ahead and single out particular players and individuals," or "go ahead and use the word stupid." While I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that in this particular instance, the University can't say it's ok, now that they've brought it up.....they can't go back on it. It's a P.R. nightmare for them now.

pharquar · Post by **pharquar** » December 1st, 2011, 10:19 am

JonnyCienPesos wrote:Here's the other problem with this...while I think the administration shoud take back their demands, they can't now. In essence what they would now be saying is "go ahead and single out particular players and individuals," or "go ahead and use the word stupid." While I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that in this particular instance, the University can't say it's ok, now that they've brought it up.....they can't go back on it. It's a P.R. nightmare for them now.

What they need to do is say that it was a "communication error" or "misunderstanding". That's their old reliable they have used many times in the past. I highly recommend they use it again. I'm not even joking.

kofdog · Post by **kofdog** » December 1st, 2011, 10:21 am

That sign about martial law is right...My brother was ripping on a ref about a bad call and he watched the ref go over to the "staff" and point up at there section. The refs must have been told to let the staff know of rowdy people. Nothing came of it and he didn't think anything of it until he read the sagebrush spot this morning on the real reason they sat for 3 min. Who knows if that's what was going on, but I've never see refs do that at the spectrum before last night. He doesn't sit in the student section.

Is this what it's becoming now? The letter was lame but are they going to scare people away from coming because they can't disagree and yell at the refs? Or taunt other players? Isn't that the whole point of going to a game? The heckling? I worry

Post by **Aglicious** » December 1st, 2011, 10:29 am

I still don't get those that feel like this hurt the team. Show me some proof? Just because Pane wants to make a few comments to hide behind his poor play doesn't mean it is so. Does he get to use this now to serve as his excuse for his general poor play in nearly every game thus far? Just because Stew said the situation was "unfortunate" doesn't mean it affected the team. Stew has said more than once that we are not a very good team right now - and that is why we lost.

The score was 7-6 twenty seconds after the 17min mark of the game and 11-10 two full minutes after the students began to cheer. Denver ripped us a new one well after the protest was over when they went on a 20 to 4 run. No, sorry it was the players who did not live up to their end of things by giving the students something to cheer about. To hide behind what was going on in the stands is to admit that you don't have control of what's happening on the court...

bhsteele · Post by **bhsteele** » December 1st, 2011, 10:45 am

UtahStizzle wrote:
bhsteele wrote:I for one would rather have Aggie basketball than the spectum. Play the game on a park basketball court, and I will be there. It's because of the team that there is a reason to cheer. The players don't come to watch us, we go to watch them.
Yeah but the Spectrum is a big part of making USU basketball a successful program. Many, many programs out there win 10 games a year with crowds under 1,000 people a game. I wouldn't enjoy that and it wouldn't get us anywhere as an athletic institution.

You have a very valid point. I guess I care less about coordinating chants than I do watching the game and cheering for my ags. (I'm not insinuating anything about you caring more about coordinating chants and less about the ags, if that makes any sense.)

utaggies · Post by **utaggies** » December 1st, 2011, 11:30 am

+1. This I agree with.

I think there was a huge over-reaction by some students on Albrecht's letter. I believe there was also an over-reaction by Albrecht as to implementing certain rules. There is room for discussion on this that should now take place before this whole sorry episode spirals further out of control with students and administration trying to demonstrate to the other who's in control and who's important.

NIrishAg wrote:It was selfish and immature of the student section. Look, the letter was written because some of the students crossed the line of decency against BYU - it would have been better if USU had taken action at the BYU game against what they deemed as inappropriate rather than waiting until a couple weeks later. USU is a public university, the Spectrum is a public forum, this university represents this community, some of the signs attacking Davies were not representative of those things and were offensive in a public forum. Accept that we are not in California or New York - sexual innuendo and the F-bomb are not deemed to be socially acceptable here. Furthermore, the students aren't really upset that the university issued an apology - no, they are upset that they issued an apology to BYU. If we had been playing anyone else, this would have been a non-issue. But because it is BYU, suddenly USU is becoming moral police and are stooping to the actions of BYU. This protest is more about BYU than it is about USU, and its pathetic.

But I will compliment the students for sticking by their morals (however, dubious they may be). Congratulations on sucking the atmosphere out of the Spectrum. Congratulations for helping our team to one of the most embarrassing losses suffered in the Spectrum in a long time. Congratulations for showing that being petty and snarky is the easy road. You should all applaud yourselves, you are all true fans. Who knew that in the "We believe" chant the student section was referring to themselves as the winners, because it was apparent they didn't give a crap about the team winning.

So go ahead and flame away. Continue the little group-think session, keep patting each other on the back and take pride in your accomplishment. I'll keep being a fan and I'll keep cheering for the Ags, the students can go ahead and keep making statements and supporting our opponents; they seem to be good at that, their team is undefeated when using that strategy.

AgMan21 · Post by **AgMan21** » December 1st, 2011, 11:34 am

utaggies wrote:+1. This I agree with.

I think there was a huge over-reaction by some students on Albrecht's letter. I believe there was also an over-reaction by Albrecht as to implementing certain rules. There is room for discussion on this that should now take place before this whole sorry episode spirals further out of control with students and administration trying to demonstrate to the other who's in control and who's important.

NIrishAg wrote:It was selfish and immature of the student section. Look, the letter was written because some of the students crossed the line of decency against BYU - it would have been better if USU had taken action at the BYU game against what they deemed as inappropriate rather than waiting until a couple weeks later. USU is a public university, the Spectrum is a public forum, this university represents this community, some of the signs attacking Davies were not representative of those things and were offensive in a public forum. Accept that we are not in California or New York - sexual innuendo and the F-bomb are not deemed to be socially acceptable here. Furthermore, the students aren't really upset that the university issued an apology - no, they are upset that they issued an apology to BYU. If we had been playing anyone else, this would have been a non-issue. But because it is BYU, suddenly USU is becoming moral police and are stooping to the actions of BYU. This protest is more about BYU than it is about USU, and its pathetic.

But I will compliment the students for sticking by their morals (however, dubious they may be). Congratulations on sucking the atmosphere out of the Spectrum. Congratulations for helping our team to one of the most embarrassing losses suffered in the Spectrum in a long time. Congratulations for showing that being petty and snarky is the easy road. You should all applaud yourselves, you are all true fans. Who knew that in the "We believe" chant the student section was referring to themselves as the winners, because it was apparent they didn't give a crap about the team winning.

So go ahead and flame away. Continue the little group-think session, keep patting each other on the back and take pride in your accomplishment. I'll keep being a fan and I'll keep cheering for the Ags, the students can go ahead and keep making statements and supporting our opponents; they seem to be good at that, their team is undefeated when using that strategy.

Best post I've seen so far. +1000

NIrishAg · Post by **NIrishAg** » December 1st, 2011, 11:43 am

Aglicious wrote:I still don't get those that feel like this hurt the team.

I don't understand this. Logically, if the students being silent didn't impact the game, then students cheering doesn't impact the game either, and therefore, there is no Spectrum magic, no Spectrum atmosphere. Or at least, it can't be attributed to the student section. And therefore there was no reason to protest. Who knows for sure how it affected the game, we would have to replay the game with cheering from the beginning. But it sure didn't help to let Denver get on a hot shooting streak and get comfortable while the students sat out the first couple minutes. Denver got comfortable fast and never looked back.

utaggies · Post by **utaggies** » December 1st, 2011, 12:26 pm

jpswensen wrote:
rAggie wrote:The student section in the Dee Glen Smith Spectrum IS bigger than the basketball team.
I wholeheartedly disagree, and this attitude will be the downfall of the Spectrum magic and you should probably have your USU fancard revoked. The second anyone makes the statement that the students are bigger than the team or the team is more important than the students, they have gotten off-track. The fans and the team are one and the same. Sometimes the team (in this case admins) do something that harms the symbiotic nature of fans and team, and sometimes the fans do something that damages this relationship (the silly silent protest), but the second you start thinking of the students and the team as separate entities, it is the beginning of the end.

I agree. The student section is not bigger than the university or the team. A similar sentiment was expressed by supporters of Woody Hayes, Joe Paterno and Bobby Knight right after they were terminated. Their positions held no sway in bringing those coaches back.

No one person or one group of people is bigger than the university. To think otherwise is not clear thinking.

hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » December 1st, 2011, 12:50 pm

Well said SSS.

And since nothing was officially announced to the students, and no official paper was passed around, it would be very easy for the AD to claim a miscommunication or misunderstanding. They need to come and say this, and end this before it gets worse.

pharquar · Post by **pharquar** » December 1st, 2011, 12:53 pm

hipsterdoofus21 wrote:Well said SSS.

And since nothing was officially announced to the students, and no official paper was passed around, it would be very easy for the AD to claim a miscommunication or misunderstanding. They need to come and say this, and end this before it gets worse.

They already have.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16893

While it is somewhat pathetic, I fully agree with them going this route. It's been their go-to excuse for blunders in the past.

UtahStizzle · Post by **UtahStizzle** » December 1st, 2011, 1:21 pm

pharquar wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:Well said SSS.
While it is somewhat pathetic, I fully agree with them going this route. It's been their go-to excuse for blunders in the past.

Ticket office uses the 'misinformation' route on a daily basis.

BigPermAg · Post by **BigPermAg** » December 1st, 2011, 1:45 pm

utaggies wrote:
jpswensen wrote:
rAggie wrote:The student section in the Dee Glen Smith Spectrum IS bigger than the basketball team.
I wholeheartedly disagree, and this attitude will be the downfall of the Spectrum magic and you should probably have your USU fancard revoked. The second anyone makes the statement that the students are bigger than the team or the team is more important than the students, they have gotten off-track. The fans and the team are one and the same. Sometimes the team (in this case admins) do something that harms the symbiotic nature of fans and team, and sometimes the fans do something that damages this relationship (the silly silent protest), but the second you start thinking of the students and the team as separate entities, it is the beginning of the end.
I agree. The student section is not bigger than the university or the team. A similar sentiment was expressed by supporters of Woody Hayes, Joe Paterno and Bobby Knight right after they were terminated. Their positions held no sway in bringing those coaches back.

No one person or one group of people is bigger than the university. To think otherwise is not clear thinking.

Wrong utaggies. The student section has received more press than the bball teams great records over the past 10 years. Ask an audience of bball fans outside of Utah and I guarantee you will hear more talk by about a 10 to 1 margin about the fans (students) than you will about Brockeith Pane or Brady Jardine.

By the way we were in the game when the 3 minute protest was over, right? There was also a loooooooong period of silence in the second half. What was that about? Oh wait it was when we were getting our trash kicked and our PG wasn't playing team ball. Was that a protest too?????

msb · Post by **msb** » December 1st, 2011, 2:39 pm

Stan forgot which school he needs to be standing up for. Were we hard on BYU students? YES, ITS THE SPECTRUM. Its obvious by now that we are relativly calm towards opposing teams when compared to schools like Duke, or anything in the south. Did they deserve it? YES. They knew what they were getting into when they signed up for cougar basketball. I personally disagree with the apology, don't mix your religion with my basketball. ( I'm LDS by the way )
Second, the BIG problem comes when Stan/Scott gave anyone the opportunity to edit the crowd. I love Aggie basketball, and it hurt all of us to not cheer. but it needed to be done. if we let them take what we do best from us, Spectrum magic will be gone forever. Stan and Scott's actions hurt the crowd and we weren't able to put our normal energy into the game. For those that say the team is bigger than the spectrum, take a look at our away game record... The spectrum is magic because of the students, when the students are alienated by the administration, we might as well not play at home. We deserve the apology letter now.

AGGZILLA · Post by **AGGZILLA** » December 1st, 2011, 2:46 pm

AgMan21 wrote:
utaggies wrote:+1. This I agree with.

I think there was a huge over-reaction by some students on Albrecht's letter. I believe there was also an over-reaction by Albrecht as to implementing certain rules. There is room for discussion on this that should now take place before this whole sorry episode spirals further out of control with students and administration trying to demonstrate to the other who's in control and who's important.

NIrishAg wrote:It was selfish and immature of the student section. Look, the letter was written because some of the students crossed the line of decency against BYU - it would have been better if USU had taken action at the BYU game against what they deemed as inappropriate rather than waiting until a couple weeks later. USU is a public university, the Spectrum is a public forum, this university represents this community, some of the signs attacking Davies were not representative of those things and were offensive in a public forum. Accept that we are not in California or New York - sexual innuendo and the F-bomb are not deemed to be socially acceptable here. Furthermore, the students aren't really upset that the university issued an apology - no, they are upset that they issued an apology to BYU. If we had been playing anyone else, this would have been a non-issue. But because it is BYU, suddenly USU is becoming moral police and are stooping to the actions of BYU. This protest is more about BYU than it is about USU, and its pathetic.

But I will compliment the students for sticking by their morals (however, dubious they may be). Congratulations on sucking the atmosphere out of the Spectrum. Congratulations for helping our team to one of the most embarrassing losses suffered in the Spectrum in a long time. Congratulations for showing that being petty and snarky is the easy road. You should all applaud yourselves, you are all true fans. Who knew that in the "We believe" chant the student section was referring to themselves as the winners, because it was apparent they didn't give a crap about the team winning.

So go ahead and flame away. Continue the little group-think session, keep patting each other on the back and take pride in your accomplishment. I'll keep being a fan and I'll keep cheering for the Ags, the students can go ahead and keep making statements and supporting our opponents; they seem to be good at that, their team is undefeated when using that strategy.

Best post I've seen so far. +1000

Post of the year... TY for restoring my faith in the fans on this board, NIrish

frankiedoeshollywood · Post by **frankiedoeshollywood** » December 1st, 2011, 3:59 pm

NIrishAg wrote:It was selfish and immature of the student section. Look, the letter was written because some of the students crossed the line of decency against BYU - it would have been better if USU had taken action at the BYU game against what they deemed as inappropriate rather than waiting until a couple weeks later. USU is a public university, the Spectrum is a public forum, this university represents this community, some of the signs attacking Davies were not representative of those things and were offensive in a public forum. Accept that we are not in California or New York - sexual innuendo and the F-bomb are not deemed to be socially acceptable here. Furthermore, the students aren't really upset that the university issued an apology - no, they are upset that they issued an apology to BYU. If we had been playing anyone else, this would have been a non-issue. But because it is BYU, suddenly USU is becoming moral police and are stooping to the actions of BYU. This protest is more about BYU than it is about USU, and its pathetic.

But I will compliment the students for sticking by their morals (however, dubious they may be). Congratulations on sucking the atmosphere out of the Spectrum. Congratulations for helping our team to one of the most embarrassing losses suffered in the Spectrum in a long time. Congratulations for showing that being petty and snarky is the easy road. You should all applaud yourselves, you are all true fans. Who knew that in the "We believe" chant the student section was referring to themselves as the winners, because it was apparent they didn't give a crap about the team winning.

So go ahead and flame away. Continue the little group-think session, keep patting each other on the back and take pride in your accomplishment. I'll keep being a fan and I'll keep cheering for the Ags, the students can go ahead and keep making statements and supporting our opponents; they seem to be good at that, their team is undefeated when using that strategy.

Group-think sucks! Unless it is my group....then...uh...yeah...it is the right way to think. :wtf:

Post by **AggiesForever** » December 1st, 2011, 4:09 pm

Aglicious wrote:I still don't get those that feel like this hurt the team. Show me some proof? Just because Pane wants to make a few comments to hide behind his poor play doesn't mean it is so. Does he get to use this now to serve as his excuse for his general poor play in nearly every game thus far? Just because Stew said the situation was "unfortunate" doesn't mean it affected the team. Stew has said more than once that we are not a very good team right now - and that is why we lost.

The score was 7-6 twenty seconds after the 17min mark of the game and 11-10 two full minutes after the students began to cheer. Denver ripped us a new one well after the protest was over when they went on a 20 to 4 run. No, sorry it was the players who did not live up to their end of things by giving the students something to cheer about. To hide behind what was going on in the stands is to admit that you don't have control of what's happening on the court...

While I support the students right to do what they did 100 percent, it had no bearing on how our team played.

Our team played like they did because they are an incredibly selfish and out of control lot right now. There is no symmetry to the offense, just a bunch of "shooters" dribbling the ball until they can get "their" shot. That's the difference between this team and past teams right now is several people think getting "their" shot is more important than the team.

Denver showed the current version of Aggies how to pass, how to shoot, in short how to make an offense sizzle. When our team begins to emulate more of what Denver is doing, we will begin to win more, as well. No more, no less.

Post by **treesap32** » December 1st, 2011, 4:14 pm

AggiesForever wrote:
Aglicious wrote:I still don't get those that feel like this hurt the team. Show me some proof? Just because Pane wants to make a few comments to hide behind his poor play doesn't mean it is so. Does he get to use this now to serve as his excuse for his general poor play in nearly every game thus far? Just because Stew said the situation was "unfortunate" doesn't mean it affected the team. Stew has said more than once that we are not a very good team right now - and that is why we lost.

The score was 7-6 twenty seconds after the 17min mark of the game and 11-10 two full minutes after the students began to cheer. Denver ripped us a new one well after the protest was over when they went on a 20 to 4 run. No, sorry it was the players who did not live up to their end of things by giving the students something to cheer about. To hide behind what was going on in the stands is to admit that you don't have control of what's happening on the court...
While I support the students right to do what they did 100 percent, it had no bearing on how our team played.

Our team played like they did because they are an incredibly selfish and out of control lot right now. There is no symmetry to the offense, just a bunch of "shooters" dribbling the ball until they can get "their" shot. That's the difference between this team and past teams right now is several people think getting "their" shot is more important than the team.

Denver showed the current version of Aggies how to pass, how to shoot, in short how to make an offense sizzle. When our team begins to emulate more of what Denver is doing, we will begin to win more, as well. No more, no less.

I'm firmly with AggiesForever on this one. While they were running a different brand of offense, Denver truly showed us how to play unselfish "Aggie Basketball" last night. Unfortunately we haven't been able to fully do that yet this year. I think it will come though...

rockandrolle · Post by **rockandrolle** » December 1st, 2011, 4:19 pm

rAggie wrote: Let me say first I cannot possibly support more the act of silent protest. Kudos to the student section. You generated talk, and that is fantastic.

Let me be among the first to say what might be difficult for some to accept: The student section in the Dee Glen Smith Spectrum IS bigger than the basketball team. I'm not talking in physical size or presence. I am saying that Utah State basketball has national notoriety for one thing, and that is for the student section. If you search "Utah State Basketball" on YouTube, you are going to see videos with millions of hits, and they are all for the antics of the student section. An argument can be made that the student section has generated more national press for the program than anything the team has done of late. Certainly, more positive press has been generated by the student section than has been generated by the team picking up marquee or tournament wins.

Congratulations to the student section for having the balls to stand up against the administrators, if even for just three minutes. We can only hope that someone like Stew Morrill figures out what happened, that the student section he loves was neutered, and he raises holy hell about it. If not, and these kinds of weak restrictions continue, then let Stan Albrecht and Scott Barnes have the half-empty, quiet, weak, unintimidating student section they deserve and watch Utah State basketball slip into mediocrity.

In your words "I cannot support LESS your post". Claiming that the student section is bigger than the team makes you sound ridiculous. Look at it like this. Team-Students=Still my favorite team ever. Students-Team=NOTHING! Students need to recognize their place and embrace it.

Students overreacted to an usher or two and the result was a complete abandonment of our team for 3 min. What a bad-a$$ crowd. I've been an Aggie fan all my life. I literally cannot imagine an agenda powerful enough to stop me from clapping and cheering for my Ags from start to finish. Fortunately, I don't believe the true, life-long, student Ag fans think they are "bigger than the team," rather only a few loud-mouth TEMPS.

jpswensen · Post by **jpswensen** » December 1st, 2011, 4:28 pm

NIrishAg wrote:
Aglicious wrote:I still don't get those that feel like this hurt the team.
I don't understand this. Logically, if the students being silent didn't impact the game, then students cheering doesn't impact the game either, and therefore, there is no Spectrum magic, no Spectrum atmosphere. Or at least, it can't be attributed to the student section. And therefore there was no reason to protest. Who knows for sure how it affected the game, we would have to replay the game with cheering from the beginning. But it sure didn't help to let Denver get on a hot shooting streak and get comfortable while the students sat out the first couple minutes. Denver got comfortable fast and never looked back.

+infinity

I like logic over conjecture every day of the week.

rockandrolle · Post by **rockandrolle** » December 1st, 2011, 4:46 pm

isrred wrote:
NIrishAg wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:NIrishAg, it wasn't the apology and it wasn't about BYU. It was the new rules and threats that pushed the issue. And many people, the students included agree that maybe it wasn't the best way to handle it. But they were acting in the moment after getting slapped in the face by the school they love and support.
It was planned and deliberate, it wasn't acting in the moment. And USU has said before that they aren't going to permit the Stupid chant, and all of the students did it and the admin does nothing, because they realize it was dumb and can't throw out all of the students. The students should have responded similarly here.
Of course it was "planned and deliberate". Do you think that we have SO much power that we can convince 3,000 students to sit and do nothing for the EXACT SAME amount of time without some sort of planning and deliberate coordination??

Where you are wrong is that it was not planned before getting slapped in the face with threat after threat after threat upon taking our seats at the game... Sure we were miffed about the apology, but people were over it. The "protest" wasn't decided or coordinated until a little before game time.

...But it was planned before getting informed...Your overreaction to a couple ushers was much worse and selfish than the "overreaction" to a couple loud-mouth students at the BYU game. Impressive.

Hipster, I'll confess that I'm bummed out by your posts on this subjects. You are one of the most logical, respectable, and reasonable posters on the board. This whole thing freakin licks!

rockandrolle · Post by **rockandrolle** » December 1st, 2011, 5:09 pm

Aglicious wrote:I still don't get those that feel like this hurt the team. Show me some proof? Just because Pane wants to make a few comments to hide behind his poor play doesn't mean it is so. Does he get to use this now to serve as his excuse for his general poor play in nearly every game thus far? Just because Stew said the situation was "unfortunate" doesn't mean it affected the team. Stew has said more than once that we are not a very good team right now - and that is why we lost.

The score was 7-6 twenty seconds after the 17min mark of the game and 11-10 two full minutes after the students began to cheer. Denver ripped us a new one well after the protest was over when they went on a 20 to 4 run. No, sorry it was the players who did not live up to their end of things by giving the students something to cheer about. To hide behind what was going on in the stands is to admit that you don't have control of what's happening on the court...

So whose point are you trying to strengthen? Doesn't the OP say the student section is bigger than the team? That is your evidence that their actions affect the team. It seems like you are arguing in favor of the protest by invalidating the OP...

Seriously though, there obviously is no hard proof that it affected the team. To be honest, it is stupid that you are calling in to question whether or not Pane was actually affected by it or not. THE FREAKING PURPOSE OF THE CROWD IS TO SUPPORT HIM AND THE OTHER PLAYERS!! But just for the fun of it i'll give you come circumstantial evidence...33 game winning streak broken the night the students decided to "occupy whine-street". Next, I played competitive basketball myself not too long ago, and one thing I know from experience is that getting into the rhythm of the game and feeling comfortable early is really important. The players came out expecting something from the crowd that helps them get rolling. I can imagine it was foreign, confusing, and strange for the players. They were all probably wondering what the hell was going on.

Either way, the students got what they wanted. The spotlight, attention, and focus was on them. Nice work fellas.

N3lyak · Post by **N3lyak** » December 1st, 2011, 5:17 pm

rockandrolle wrote:So whose point are you trying to strengthen? Doesn't the OP say the student section is bigger than the team? That is your evidence that their actions affect the team. It seems like you are arguing in favor of the protest by invalidating the OP...

Seriously though, there obviously is no hard proof that it affected the team. To be honest, it is stupid that you are calling in to question whether or not Pane was actually affected by it or not. THE FREAKING PURPOSE OF THE CROWD IS TO SUPPORT HIM AND THE OTHER PLAYERS!! But just for the fun of it i'll give you come circumstantial evidence...33 game winning streak broken the night the students decided to "occupy whine-street". Next, I played competitive basketball myself not too long ago, and one thing I know from experience is that getting into the rhythm of the game and feeling comfortable early is really important. The players came out expecting something from the crowd that helps them get rolling. I can imagine it was foreign, confusing, and strange for the players. They were all probably wondering what the hell was going on.

Either way, the students got what they wanted. The spotlight, attention, and focus was on them. Nice work fellas.

Thanks. That means a lot coming from you.

frankiedoeshollywood · Post by **frankiedoeshollywood** » December 1st, 2011, 5:19 pm

rockandrolle wrote:
Aglicious wrote:I still don't get those that feel like this hurt the team. Show me some proof? Just because Pane wants to make a few comments to hide behind his poor play doesn't mean it is so. Does he get to use this now to serve as his excuse for his general poor play in nearly every game thus far? Just because Stew said the situation was "unfortunate" doesn't mean it affected the team. Stew has said more than once that we are not a very good team right now - and that is why we lost.

The score was 7-6 twenty seconds after the 17min mark of the game and 11-10 two full minutes after the students began to cheer. Denver ripped us a new one well after the protest was over when they went on a 20 to 4 run. No, sorry it was the players who did not live up to their end of things by giving the students something to cheer about. To hide behind what was going on in the stands is to admit that you don't have control of what's happening on the court...
So whose point are you trying to strengthen? Doesn't the OP say the student section is bigger than the team? That is your evidence that their actions affect the team. It seems like you are arguing in favor of the protest by invalidating the OP...

Seriously though, there obviously is no hard proof that it affected the team. To be honest, it is stupid that you are calling in to question whether or not Pane was actually affected by it or not. THE FREAKING PURPOSE OF THE CROWD IS TO SUPPORT HIM AND THE OTHER PLAYERS!! But just for the fun of it i'll give you come circumstantial evidence...33 game winning streak broken the night the students decided to "occupy whine-street". Next, I played competitive basketball myself not too long ago, and one thing I know from experience is that getting into the rhythm of the game and feeling comfortable early is really important. The players came out expecting something from the crowd that helps them get rolling. I can imagine it was foreign, confusing, and strange for the players. They were all probably wondering what the hell was going on.

Either way, the students got what they wanted. The spotlight, attention, and focus was on them. Nice work fellas.

Not logical. The team also plays games on the road. They have won games on the road. They have won plenty of games on the road in venues much more quiet than the Spectrum last night.

I guess I don't understand how people can't seem to make the connection that the protest was IN SUPPORT of the team. The students don't cheer for themselves. They cheer for the team. And the way they have grown accustomed to expressing themselves was severely limited last night, thereby limiting what they could do for the team, and using your circumstantial evidence, affecting the team. The protest was to protect (and I hate using the word "right", because it isn't a right, but humor me) the right to support the team in the way that they have always been allowed to do and create one of the best atmospheres in sport.

This had nothing to do with being selfish. It had to do with being able to support the team. If you you are going to go down a logical path, you have to finish the journey.

With the exception of Wild Bill, I can not think of one fan that ever received anything for cheering their guts out other than the satisfaction of getting in the opponents heads, supporting our team, and being entertained.

And the circumstantial evidence on the other side suggests it worked perfectly. It has been covered by several media outlets and led to a meeting between the affected parties where it will all be washed away as a miscommunication because the administration realized they can't take that element of the Spectrum for granted.

sancho839 · Post by **sancho839** » December 1st, 2011, 5:25 pm

if you believe this whole "miscommunication" thing, you might want to wear a helmet in your everyday life.

we were told the same set of rules by at least three different people. AT DIFFERENT TIMES. it wasn't just one dude saying "listen to me or i'll kick you out cause i can." i even heard two ushers talking and saying "hey, did you give them a rundown of the new rules?"

and all three of those people said they didn't like the idea of making us "calm down" that much but they had to do it.

come on.

isrred · Post by **isrred** » December 1st, 2011, 5:29 pm

sancho839 wrote:if you believe this whole "miscommunication" thing, you might want to wear a helmet in your everyday life.

we were told the same set of rules by at least three different people. AT DIFFERENT TIMES. it wasn't just one dude saying "listen to me or i'll kick you out cause i can." i even heard two ushers talking and saying "hey, did you give them a rundown of the new rules?"

and all three of those people said they didn't like the idea of making us "calm down" that much but they had to do it.

come on.

^This. It wasn't a rogue usher. I understand the PR angle of being able to blame it on one power-hungry staffer who misunderstood things, but it just isn't so.

Specifically concerning the "pointing" when it was brought up, I asked THREE different people at THREE separate times when it was brought up "what is so wrong with pointing??" and they all pretty much said "we dunno, we didn't come up with it. We're just doing our job".

jpswensen · Post by **jpswensen** » December 1st, 2011, 5:37 pm

frankiedoeshollywood wrote: Not logical. The team also plays games on the road. They have won games on the road. They have won plenty of games on the road in venues much more quiet than the Spectrum last night.

I guess I don't understand how people can't seem to make the connection that the protest was IN SUPPORT of the team. The students don't cheer for themselves. They cheer for the team. And the way they have grown accustomed to expressing themselves was severely limited last night, thereby limiting what they could do for the team, and using your circumstantial evidence, affecting the team. The protest was to protect (and I hate using the word "right", because it isn't a right, but humor me) the right to support the team in the way that they have always been allowed to do and create one of the best atmospheres in sport.

This had nothing to do with being selfish. It had to do with being able to support the team. If you you are going to go down a logical path, you have to finish the journey.

With the exception of Wild Bill, I can not think of one fan that ever received anything for cheering their guts out other than the satisfaction of getting in the opponents heads, supporting our team, and being entertained.

And the circumstantial evidence on the other side suggests it worked perfectly. It has been covered by several media outlets and led to a meeting between the affected parties where it will all be washed away as a miscommunication because the administration realized they can't take that element of the Spectrum for granted.

I think you need to take a course in logic (or at least read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies). In the short space of a few paragraph's you fell victim to at least affirming a disjunct and denying the antecedent and I'll bet I could find some others.

rockandrolle · Post by **rockandrolle** » December 1st, 2011, 6:01 pm

frankiedoeshollywood wrote:
Not logical. The team also plays games on the road. They have won games on the road. They have won plenty of games on the road in venues much more quiet than the Spectrum last night.

I guess I don't understand how people can't seem to make the connection that the protest was IN SUPPORT of the team. The students don't cheer for themselves. They cheer for the team. And the way they have grown accustomed to expressing themselves was severely limited last night, thereby limiting what they could do for the team, and using your circumstantial evidence, affecting the team. The protest was to protect (and I hate using the word "right", because it isn't a right, but humor me) the right to support the team in the way that they have always been allowed to do and create one of the best atmospheres in sport.

This had nothing to do with being selfish. It had to do with being able to support the team. If you you are going to go down a logical path, you have to finish the journey.

With the exception of Wild Bill, I can not think of one fan that ever received anything for cheering their guts out other than the satisfaction of getting in the opponents heads, supporting our team, and being entertained.

And the circumstantial evidence on the other side suggests it worked perfectly. It has been covered by several media outlets and led to a meeting between the affected parties where it will all be washed away as a miscommunication because the administration realized they can't take that element of the Spectrum for granted.

How was their right to cheer for their team limited? Their right to cheer for their team was not limited at all. All that was limited was harassing the other team. I'd also like to ask who limited the ability to harass? Was it Stan, Scott, the WAC?

Tell me exactly why you feel so wronged. What was taken from you and who took it?

frankiedoeshollywood · Post by **frankiedoeshollywood** » December 1st, 2011, 6:04 pm

jpswensen wrote:
frankiedoeshollywood wrote: Not logical. The team also plays games on the road. They have won games on the road. They have won plenty of games on the road in venues much more quiet than the Spectrum last night.

I guess I don't understand how people can't seem to make the connection that the protest was IN SUPPORT of the team. The students don't cheer for themselves. They cheer for the team. And the way they have grown accustomed to expressing themselves was severely limited last night, thereby limiting what they could do for the team, and using your circumstantial evidence, affecting the team. The protest was to protect (and I hate using the word "right", because it isn't a right, but humor me) the right to support the team in the way that they have always been allowed to do and create one of the best atmospheres in sport.

This had nothing to do with being selfish. It had to do with being able to support the team. If you you are going to go down a logical path, you have to finish the journey.

With the exception of Wild Bill, I can not think of one fan that ever received anything for cheering their guts out other than the satisfaction of getting in the opponents heads, supporting our team, and being entertained.

And the circumstantial evidence on the other side suggests it worked perfectly. It has been covered by several media outlets and led to a meeting between the affected parties where it will all be washed away as a miscommunication because the administration realized they can't take that element of the Spectrum for granted.
I think you need to take a course in logic (or at least read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies). In the short space of a few paragraph's you fell victim to at least affirming a disjunct and denying the antecedent and I'll bet I could find some others.

No, I did not. But you are good at finding big words on wikipedia. So you get an internet star for that. Or do you?

rockandrolle · Post by **rockandrolle** » December 1st, 2011, 6:27 pm

Frankie, listen to yourself...you sound like a child.

"...But you are good at finding big words on wikipedia. So you get an internet star for that. Or do you?" I swear I overheard a 12 year old girl say this exact same line the other day.

This is what I get when I read your argument. "Why can't you old mature people understand that we sat quietly in our seats like a bunch of babies, not giving a damn what is happening with the team on the court, for THE BENEFIT of the team, Duh! What is, like, so hard about like, getting that through your old heads? We are out there protesting for the "right" to cheer for our team by harassing the other players. Merely cheering for our own guys is not the best way to support the team. They are at their best when we focus on making unnecessary personal attacks on the opponents...Geez, you guys are so dumb...whatev"

Upcoming Events

Event Results