I would be for offering the Larsen. Is he exclusively a guard or could he play center like Tyler?


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Could we add Andrew Tovi to this list? Watching his Juco film, he looks like the big, physical, and aggressive lineman we need.

I know we weren't able to get him last year because of grades, but if we could get him to commit again, I think he would be a HUGE pick-up.

It was NOT grades with Tovi

***Kyle Whimpey*** wrote:As do I. I spoke with Tyler a few days ago and he said that this was on the horizon but did not say that it had happened yet. Did this happen in the last few days?

He said this on Twitter:

And everything he has posted since seems to indicate that Southern Utah is where he thinks he can play. I think that might be the best for him.

Mitch Orton from Cedar High Will be home from his mission Dec 9th. DE, DL, great attitude, leaned out, Dad says he has been accepted to USU. Coach Lamb is following him. Lamb worked him and his brother with the college kids when they were in High School and wanted him to come to SUU but now is still in contact with him now he is the defensive coach at BYU-P.

That's all I know.

antibluehair wrote:It was NOT grades with Tovi

Good to know. Do you think we have a shot at getting him to commit again this year?

I know there are the MW bashers myself included but one thing he cannot be criticized for is his dedication to recruiting. I follow lots of kids in the South Florida especially. We were fortunate to get R. Lewis

Got interrupted wanted to finish my post letting any of you who are interested peek into MW recruiting mind set at the moment. Say what you want about MW and indeed I am not fond...he does have an awareness of player and team deficiencies and needs and that is why I never get embroiled in the Hobbs vs Myers controversy...from a coaching perspective there is a reason why Hobb's is not the guy no matter how deficient you may think Myers is which personally I do not... he is average. Hobbs is not a QB.

Anyway I am sharing a chat with one of my recruiting pals who is an AC at a P-5 school who uses playing Notre Dame as a big recruiting chip. He knows Hartwell, Barnes, and Pumire and says Hartwell is head and shoulders above Barnes and that Barnes is having issues rubbing people the wrong way since he left and has similar "narcissistic" baggage as Pugmire. Said we should be doing cartwheels with Hartwell and to be patient. Also said Wells is a hard recruiter to compete against and is actually quite good given the lack of money USU's tradition of being a down program and coaching graveyard. Thinks he is a better recruiter than GA and that GA's focus and emphasis on local kids is not where it is at.

Apparently MW is miffed with the poor special teams play and return game in particular. Top priority for him is to get one or two playmakers like JoJo. Was not pleased having limited options like Andrew Rodriguez and Kennedy Williams and found no one else on the team despite careful evaluation...so he went and offered a kid in San Diego who big schools have been salivating over and my buddy is continuing to chase. The kid's name is Dominick Silvels from Patrick Henry H.S. Said he does not show great hands but could be "a great running back good size 6'3" 201 high end speed...can make people miss and is an extremely dangerous returner... Aggies offered and he is liking them...wants to get out of Cali." He also mentioned running across many coaches while recruiting n CA whose futures are in question and Wells being one of them. Said Wells was given clear statement that he has one year and if the team does not do better than 7-5 he is done. Coaching circles were said to be taken by how far his shining star has fallen and liken him to "Hawk (Dan Hawkins) who took a big dive after Boise and is now trying to resurrect at UC Davis."

#1 - Nobody, including your buddy and Matt Wells knows what kind of QB Hobbs is. His sample size is basically non-existent.

2- GA's approach worked with regards to recruiting. Matt Wells' hasn't. IMO it's dumb to say MW is a better recruiter and that his approach is better. The proof is in the pudding.


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I think there's a distinction between being a good recruiter and being a good evaluator. Often the two are used interchangeably. Right from the get go there have been reports that the Wells's are good recruiters. Good recruiters in that they go after their targets, sell them USU and have landed many of them. I even recall posts from recruits parents saying how impressed they were with the Wells brothers and the job they were doing recruiting.
However, in retrospect it looks like there has been a lot of whiffing when it comes to the recruits panning out and producing for the program. MW has recruited well but not the talent he thought he was after because he isn't good at evaluating that talent. JMO but what mediocre is reporting adds up and is not contradictory.


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We've had many coaches who have eschewed the local kids and with terrible results. We've had one coach who embraced local kids who LOVE football and developed them into all-conference, border-line NFL and NFL players with the best results in the history of the school. This is where it's at.

Brownjeans - Agree one should never overlook local talent we have had some great ones Merlin and Phil Olsen Chris Cooley the Vigil brothers but there must be a reason that most coaches recruit heavily in TX, FLA, AZ and CA...we have had our share of failures more than one would wish to count taking local kids especially at the skill positions. Chuckie versus Travis Cox? Jose Fuentes vs, Jeff Crosbie? I suspect the long and short of it is...it depends and probably is a wash. I would say that the local homegrown guys with proven talent seem to be tougher than outside recruits with comparable talent which in my mind puts them a notch above. However, for the most part I would be hesitant to build a program on the Thompson brothers, Josh Flores, D.J. Nelson, Alex Huerta and the list realistically goes on and on. It is a difficult answer and is probably again a wash as indicated below two local kids one is a star and the other not.

Great example of a local kid recruit - "With Emmett White graduating after two prolific seasons, the Aggies could easily be feeling sorry for themselves. After all, White rushed for 1,322 yards in 2000 when he led the nation in all-purpose running and 1,361 yards last year when he again led the nation in all-purpose yards before getting injured in the season finale."

Not so good example of local kid recruit - "Dennehy expected a three-way battle this spring between David Fiefia, Roger Fernandez and Richard Watson. However, Fiefia, the former Deseret News Mr. Football at Hunter High in 1998, has moved to the front with Fernandez pushing him and Watson a ways back."

Local players need to be the meat and potatoes of USU's football team. Then season them with special talents from elsewhere. And all players need to love football enough to work hard at it. No matter what someone did in the past, no matter how highly thought of, no matter the number of stars, competition has to be king. Players have to be put it the best possible position to succeed with their talents. Remember how often Gary moved players to different positions and coached them up?

IMO, we're not following the recipe anymore. Coach Wells either doesn't know how to cook with that recipe, or he thinks he knows a better way. Either way he's failing.

Brownjeans:

Remember how often Gary moved players to different positions and coached them up? Agree! I do that is what made him such an excellent coach! Masterful at it.

IMO, we're not following the recipe anymore. Coach Wells either doesn't know how to cook with that recipe, or he thinks he knows a better way. Either way he's failing: Agree!!! Regardless of outside or local he does not seem to know how to develop the talent he gets.

In my opinion, we are lumping at least 3 different things together and calling it recruiting: 1) Talent evaluation, 2) Recruiting, and 3) Player Development. Without all three, results on the field are going to be bad. I believe where we have really been lacking the most is the player development.

MW has consistently had better recruiting classes than GA, which makes him a 'better recruiter'. However, recruitment is just the starting point. It's like getting out of the MTC and 'knowing' the language. I can get the refrigerator salesman to bring me one of those high-tech, do-it-all refrigerators, but unless I know how to get the most out of it and use all the bells and whistles, I'll be lucky if I can plug it in and have it keep my food cold.

We need a good talent developer at the QB and Oline positions. These are the most important to our team, because our guys are always going to be undersized, under-recruited, and in our case, under-disciplined. Those are the glaring holes on this team. We're consistently able to make good receivers (who saw Tarver doing so well this year?), DB's, LB's and Safeties. Where we've had the most problems are those two position groups. (Besides special teams.) It's the head coach's job to find those teachers. Just getting these players onto campus isn't good enough. I was at a football event tonight and the team chemistry is there, the tools are there, but some guys are undersized, and we haven't seemed to have the coaching in place to minimize the flaws and maximize the heart or dormant athleticism that needs to be brought forth. I still have hopes for these players. They're all good kids who just need a little leadership and teaching.

Ahbye wrote:MW has consistently had better recruiting classes than GA, which makes him a 'better recruiter'. However, recruitment is just the starting point. It's like getting out of the MTC and 'knowing' the language. I can get the refrigerator salesman to bring me one of those high-tech, do-it-all refrigerators, but unless I know how to get the most out of it and use all the bells and whistles, I'll be lucky if I can plug it in and have it keep my food cold.

We need a good talent developer at the QB and Oline positions. These are the most important to our team, because our guys are always going to be undersized, under-recruited, and in our case, under-disciplined. Those are the glaring holes on this team. We're consistently able to make good receivers (who saw Tarver doing so well this year?), DB's, LB's and Safeties. Where we've had the most problems are those two position groups. (Besides special teams.) It's the head coach's job to find those teachers. Just getting these players onto campus isn't good enough. I was at a football event tonight and the team chemistry is there, the tools are there, but some guys are undersized, and we haven't seemed to have the coaching in place to minimize the flaws and maximize the heart or dormant athleticism that needs to be brought forth. I still have hopes for these players. They're all good kids who just need a little leadership and teaching.

Agree with your assessment. Some leadership and confidence would go a long way with this team. Hopefully, we can make the necessary adjustments.

Ahbye wrote:MW has consistently had better recruiting classes than GA, which makes him a 'better recruiter'. However, recruitment is just the starting point. It's like getting out of the MTC and 'knowing' the language. I can get the refrigerator salesman to bring me one of those high-tech, do-it-all refrigerators, but unless I know how to get the most out of it and use all the bells and whistles, I'll be lucky if I can plug it in and have it keep my food cold.

We need a good talent developer at the QB and Oline positions. These are the most important to our team, because our guys are always going to be undersized, under-recruited, and in our case, under-disciplined. Those are the glaring holes on this team. We're consistently able to make good receivers (who saw Tarver doing so well this year?), DB's, LB's and Safeties. Where we've had the most problems are those two position groups. (Besides special teams.) It's the head coach's job to find those teachers. Just getting these players onto campus isn't good enough. I was at a football event tonight and the team chemistry is there, the tools are there, but some guys are undersized, and we haven't seemed to have the coaching in place to minimize the flaws and maximize the heart or dormant athleticism that needs to be brought forth. I still have hopes for these players. They're all good kids who just need a little leadership and teaching.

I don't think it is true that Wells recruiting has been better on paper than GAs. I'll take a look and see.

Kyle, if you see this I am interested in what you think about Chandler Dolphin out of Alta. I actually like him over some of our OLs currently on the team.

I may be wrong, I just remember being triple digits with GA. MW isn't much better, but he seems to get more three stars than GA did. I'd be interested to see the actual numbers.

GeoAg wrote:
I don't think it is true that Wells recruiting has been better on paper than GAs. I'll take a look and see.

The info below is is pasted from a post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42189

I know recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to 2 and 3 star guys, but looking back at the past several years of recruiting rankings, I don't think my hypothesis is correct. The following rankings are from 247 Sports and are where our February signing classes were ranked nationally:

Year: National Recruiting Class Strength
2008: 111
2009: 107
2010: 108
2011: 111
2012: 107
2013: 107
2014: 112
2015: 70
2016: 92

Floppy Hat wrote:

GeoAg wrote:
I don't think it is true that Wells recruiting has been better on paper than GAs. I'll take a look and see.

The info below is is pasted from a post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42189

I know recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to 2 and 3 star guys, but looking back at the past several years of recruiting rankings, I don't think my hypothesis is correct. The following rankings are from 247 Sports and are where our February signing classes were ranked nationally:

Year: National Recruiting Class Strength
2008: 111
2009: 107
2010: 108
2011: 111
2012: 107
2013: 107
2014: 112
2015: 70
2016: 92

Interesting how much our better rankings seem to coincide with poor play. I'll take a look at rivals and scout as well unless somebody beats me to it.

GeoAg wrote:

Floppy Hat wrote:

GeoAg wrote:
I don't think it is true that Wells recruiting has been better on paper than GAs. I'll take a look and see.

The info below is is pasted from a post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42189

I know recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to 2 and 3 star guys, but looking back at the past several years of recruiting rankings, I don't think my hypothesis is correct. The following rankings are from 247 Sports and are where our February signing classes were ranked nationally:

Year: National Recruiting Class Strength
2008: 111
2009: 107
2010: 108
2011: 111
2012: 107
2013: 107
2014: 112
2015: 70
2016: 92

Interesting how much our better rankings seem to coincide with poor play. I'll take a look at rivals and scout as well unless somebody beats me to it.

Player development is so much more important than recruiting stars.

Sent from an original NES.

UtahStizzle wrote:

GeoAg wrote:

Floppy Hat wrote:

GeoAg wrote:
I don't think it is true that Wells recruiting has been better on paper than GAs. I'll take a look and see.

The info below is is pasted from a post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42189

I know recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to 2 and 3 star guys, but looking back at the past several years of recruiting rankings, I don't think my hypothesis is correct. The following rankings are from 247 Sports and are where our February signing classes were ranked nationally:

Year: National Recruiting Class Strength
2008: 111
2009: 107
2010: 108
2011: 111
2012: 107
2013: 107
2014: 112
2015: 70
2016: 92

Interesting how much our better rankings seem to coincide with poor play. I'll take a look at rivals and scout as well unless somebody beats me to it.

Player development is so much more important than recruiting stars.

Sent from an original NES.

Yep. When everyone wonders what blueprint Boise followed, it was recruiting potential and frame and coaching it up. However, no amount of good coaching can overcome poor work habits or a bad attitude. Our players need to re-prioritize their lives to where football is a close second only to school. I'm pretty sure if playing time was pulled, we'd see some attitude changes. Someone needs to get sent home just to send a message.

Ahbye wrote: Yep. When everyone wonders what blueprint Boise followed, it was recruiting potential and frame and coaching it up. However, no amount of good coaching can overcome poor work habits or a bad attitude. Our players need to re-prioritize their lives to where football is a close second only to school. I'm pretty sure if playing time was pulled, we'd see some attitude changes. Someone needs to get sent home just to send a message.

Work habits, attitude, and a love for football is something that must be recruited for as well.

brownjeans wrote:

Ahbye wrote: Yep. When everyone wonders what blueprint Boise followed, it was recruiting potential and frame and coaching it up. However, no amount of good coaching can overcome poor work habits or a bad attitude. Our players need to re-prioritize their lives to where football is a close second only to school. I'm pretty sure if playing time was pulled, we'd see some attitude changes. Someone needs to get sent home just to send a message.

Work habits, attitude, and a love for football is something that must be recruited for as well.

Yep. I totally agree. I'd also add an insistence on complete and total accountability from everyone. That starts in the summer when people set foot on campus. "We're going to work, we're going to focus, and if you don't want to do that, turn around and go home." I'd say that's actually the biggest issue I've seen permeate the program during its decline. We no longer have a Vigil screaming at people, exerting "positive" peer pressure. The rest of the players are too accepting of the BS of others.

Ahbye wrote:

UtahStizzle wrote:

GeoAg wrote:

Floppy Hat wrote:

GeoAg wrote:
I don't think it is true that Wells recruiting has been better on paper than GAs. I'll take a look and see.

The info below is is pasted from a post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42189

I know recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to 2 and 3 star guys, but looking back at the past several years of recruiting rankings, I don't think my hypothesis is correct. The following rankings are from 247 Sports and are where our February signing classes were ranked nationally:

Year: National Recruiting Class Strength
2008: 111
2009: 107
2010: 108
2011: 111
2012: 107
2013: 107
2014: 112
2015: 70
2016: 92

Interesting how much our better rankings seem to coincide with poor play. I'll take a look at rivals and scout as well unless somebody beats me to it.

Player development is so much more important than recruiting stars.

Sent from an original NES.

Yep. When everyone wonders what blueprint Boise followed, it was recruiting potential and frame and coaching it up. However, no amount of good coaching can overcome poor work habits or a bad attitude. Our players need to re-prioritize their lives to where football is a close second only to school. I'm pretty sure if playing time was pulled, we'd see some attitude changes. Someone needs to get sent home just to send a message.

You guys do know that many if not most of those 2015 and 2016 recruits have yet to see the field? My biggest concern is not talent. One concern I have is scheme. Clune was a major drop off from Aranda and Orlando. I saw some promise with Maile and think he will be very good. Our offense only works with the right players. We don't have Chuckie as QB, Kerwinn Williams at running back and other players that made that system work. Secondly, the whole Josh Heupel experiment was a huge failure and I hope we don't make the same mistake with the rumored me OC. Wells taking over this year was a shear resource issue that Aggie Atheltics must deal with. What pisses me off about Wells is his complete stubbornness in adapting to the talent he does have. Secondly. He has a great offensive mind in Canales. He needs to tap into that.

My other concern is the lack of a kick (I can't express myself without swearing) and take name attitude. That is all on Wells. Myers is not this type of player either. This is why Logan High people tout DJ. He may lack the skill but he has the kick (I can't express myself without swearing) and take name leadership we have been missing. It is also why his brother did so well at Cougarland. I watched Love at fall scrimmage and I think he may have it. Columbi may as well. I also hope Wells new assistants in Maile and Canales can change this culture, and quickly. Otherwise we will see the same play as the last two years.

I realize they haven't set foot on the field. What I look at is the fact that neither Kent Myers or the O-line made any progress over the last few years. These are guys who have been on the field, who have had access to summer programs and nutrition. They only way you don't get better with all that we have here is if you don't care. There's no other explanation. It's the same stupid mistakes and the same limited skillset they started out with as freshmen. They started raw and finished raw.

As for scheme, I thought the scheme worked great--until Davonte Mays went down. The alarming part was that there was no backup plan, no adjustment, just a reversion to a platoon of running backs who are eerily similar to the past several years. When you can run the ball and people are afraid of those runners, they scheme for it. When Mays went down, they had to scheme for KM, but that's not hard. It got to the point where a DC would pin the ears back and dare us to pass. All they'd have to do was wait for the inevitable same stupid mistakes by KM or the OL, which were a sure bet, and they'd win the game. It's the ultimate "run-out-the-clock" scenario. Even the bad teams could beat us by just waiting us out; for the false start, or the late-game fumble or interception. The fact we had no answer or didn't try to have a different mindset or scheme is appalling. Do I think MW can turn it around? Maybe. However, when we punted with 6 minutes left at BYU while waiving a white flag kind of told me exactly who we were this year: A bunch of coaches and players that were too cowardly in earlier games to take the next step and go out and win a game when it was close. Instead we gave up. We lost the season early, and were relieved to finally have it over. Yep, the BYU game was probably over. But you never concede defeat until it's over on the clock. It's such a bad message to send to the team and fans. It's the attitude of USU football for so many years. Either you expect to win every game, and get pissed and motivated when you don't, or you punt the ball away at midfield towards the end of a rivalry game and run away. I guess that's what pissed me off the most this season. The relief I saw on the team's faces that it was over and they didn't have to deal with it anymore. A direct slap to the face of all those who've contributed and worked to get them that palace over there. If I was the AD, all practices would be outside until further notice. The girls basketball team gets priority over the weight room because they try harder. No more Nike swag until further notice. You don't get to wear the colors until you earn them. Etc.

I don't mean to be petty, but I want to remind everyone that the purpose of this feed was about pontential recruits that would help make Utah State Football a competitive program again, especially the players that are being overlooked.

If you want to compare Well's success with recruiting with GA's, compare Kent Myers vs the other qb's, or talk about the current culture that you see with our current team, please make a separate feed/topic.

Have we offered Colin Larsen yet? Any info on that?

You guys remember back when Kyle Whimpey would post in the Kyle Whimpey thread? Yeah. Those were good times.

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AggieUprising50 wrote:I don't mean to be petty, but I want to remind everyone that the purpose of this feed was about pontential recruits that would help make Utah State Football a competitive program again, especially the players that are being overlooked.

If you want to compare Well's success with recruiting with GA's, compare Kent Myers vs the other qb's, or talk about the current culture that you see with our current team, please make a separate feed/topic.

I don't see that it is off topic, because it's about recruiting that evolved into player development. If you stifle free-flowing conversation, next thing you know, you're NMSU's board. That place is the Las Cruces of the internet.

UtahStizzle wrote:

GeoAg wrote:

Floppy Hat wrote:

GeoAg wrote:
I don't think it is true that Wells recruiting has been better on paper than GAs. I'll take a look and see.

The info below is is pasted from a post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42189

I know recruiting rankings don't tell the whole story, especially when it comes to 2 and 3 star guys, but looking back at the past several years of recruiting rankings, I don't think my hypothesis is correct. The following rankings are from 247 Sports and are where our February signing classes were ranked nationally:

Year: National Recruiting Class Strength
2008: 111
2009: 107
2010: 108
2011: 111
2012: 107
2013: 107
2014: 112
2015: 70
2016: 92

Interesting how much our better rankings seem to coincide with poor play. I'll take a look at rivals and scout as well unless somebody beats me to it.

Player development is so much more important than recruiting stars.

Sent from an original NES.

At this level I agree. P5s that get 4 and 5 star guys, less so.

Article on (state of) Utah's top uncommitted players:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all

Utah State mentioned on a few of the "Top Teams" lists.

brownjeans wrote:

Ahbye wrote: Yep. When everyone wonders what blueprint Boise followed, it was recruiting potential and frame and coaching it up. However, no amount of good coaching can overcome poor work habits or a bad attitude. Our players need to re-prioritize their lives to where football is a close second only to school. I'm pretty sure if playing time was pulled, we'd see some attitude changes. Someone needs to get sent home just to send a message.

Work habits, attitude, and a love for football is something that must be recruited for as well.

This is hearsay but I have no reason to doubt it. I have a cousin whose neighbor atends USU. (S)He had a class with several football players including one of our QBs. Apparently, the FB players sat in the back and played on their iPads all semester rather than actually paying attention and putting in effort. IMHO, the attitude you have in the classsrom translates into the FB program too. This also leads to the question as to how they passed the class?