WR question J Nathan

aggiesdidwhat · Post by **aggiesdidwhat** » September 27th, 2021, 12:52 am

Hey guys, there are a bunch of you that seem pretty knowledgeable about this sport. My wife has started watching football with me the last 6 or 7 years. She asked me a question, and I didn't know the answer. After multiple drops by Scarver and the tall kid Griff I believe is his name. She asked, "Why isn't the young man we met playing?" (Jordan Nathan, forgive me for my spelling if wrong) she brought up many catches where he got wrecked over the years but held on. Why isn't he involved more?? If not him, why not WR that can catch these seemingly easy passes?

As always, go Aggies!

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » September 27th, 2021, 7:31 am

I think overall McGriff has played pretty solid. Still has a few issues with dropped balls, but overall he has caught the ball a lot better than last year. He also has been key on a some long runs and screen passes with his blocking. As for Scarver, in my opinion he should only see the field sparingly or in blow outs. As a wide receiver he has been poor. Thompkins, Wright and Bowling all deserve their playing time. In my opinion Nathan and KVL should be splitting time as the 4th receiver. KVL had an awesome camp and has sparingly saw the field.

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » September 27th, 2021, 7:41 am

If there’s one nit to pick with BA so far, it’s player personnel decisions. I want to scream at my TV everytime Noa and Makakona get carries when, IMO, Tyler is clearly RB1 and Gentry is clearly RB2.

And definitely Nathan should be getting Scarver’s snaps. We have a huge sample size that tells us exactly what each of Nathan and Scarver are as WR.

aggiesdidwhat · Post by **aggiesdidwhat** » September 27th, 2021, 8:22 am

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 7:41 am
If there’s one nit to pick with BA so far, it’s player personnel decisions. I want to scream at my TV everytime Noa and Makakona get carries when, IMO, Tyler is clearly RB1 and Gentry is clearly RB2.

And definitely Nathan should be getting Scarver’s snaps. We have a huge sample size that tells us exactly what each of Nathan and Scarver are as WR.

Really well said. I feel the same way.

I'm not questioning our WR core. Just really a couple. But mostly Scarver. Seems we have better options. But just a thought from a fat man that doesn't have to do any of the hard work haha

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » September 27th, 2021, 8:23 am

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 7:41 am
If there’s one nit to pick with BA so far, it’s player personnel decisions. I want to scream at my TV everytime Noa and Makakona get carries when, IMO, Tyler is clearly RB1 and Gentry is clearly RB2.

And definitely Nathan should be getting Scarver’s snaps. We have a huge sample size that tells us exactly what each of Nathan and Scarver are as WR.

I agree that Makakona should not be seeing the field much, but I think Noa has played pretty well and been pretty effective. You are absolutely right that Tyler and Gentry are the 2 top RB's.

slcagg · Post by **slcagg** » September 27th, 2021, 8:28 am

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 8:23 am

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 7:41 am
If there’s one nit to pick with BA so far, it’s player personnel decisions. I want to scream at my TV everytime Noa and Makakona get carries when, IMO, Tyler is clearly RB1 and Gentry is clearly RB2.

And definitely Nathan should be getting Scarver’s snaps. We have a huge sample size that tells us exactly what each of Nathan and Scarver are as WR.
I agree that Makakona should not be seeing the field much, but I think Noa has played pretty well and been pretty effective. You are absolutely right that Tyler and Gentry are the 2 top RB's.

I think their is a clear number 1 rb in Calvin but think the number 2 rb is more of a committee between gentry and noa. Both have looked solid to me.

Just wait until the rb shows up though….Robert Briggs.

ineptimusprime · Post by **ineptimusprime** » September 27th, 2021, 8:29 am

Aggie84025 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 8:23 am

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 7:41 am
If there’s one nit to pick with BA so far, it’s player personnel decisions. I want to scream at my TV everytime Noa and Makakona get carries when, IMO, Tyler is clearly RB1 and Gentry is clearly RB2.

And definitely Nathan should be getting Scarver’s snaps. We have a huge sample size that tells us exactly what each of Nathan and Scarver are as WR.
I agree that Makakona should not be seeing the field much, but I think Noa has played pretty well and been pretty effective. You are absolutely right that Tyler and Gentry are the 2 top RB's.

It’s not so much that Noa’s bad, it’s just that Tyler and Gentry are clearly better and we are trying to put our best out there to win games.

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » September 27th, 2021, 8:51 am

I’m good with scarcer being on the field occasionally because he is crazy fast and sees the field as well as anyone. But he should not have the ball thrown at him. Maybe pitched, maybe handed-off, but not thrown at.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » September 27th, 2021, 9:13 am

I've never understood the Scarver love at WR. He just isn't very good and never has been. He definitely rocks at returning kicks. He doesn't change the game at WR. He currently has two catches for fourteen yards this year. He isn't even a homerun threat with those stats. I'm pretty sure Nathan and VL can cover those stats.

BeNo · Post by **BeNo** » September 27th, 2021, 9:21 am

I think it also has to do with putting playmakers in position where they have the highest probability to make a play. Nathan is very good from the slot position. I have not seen him play from the slot this year.

Elkaggie · Post by **Elkaggie** » September 27th, 2021, 9:50 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 8:51 am
I’m good with scarcer being on the field occasionally because he is crazy fast and sees the field as well as anyone. But he should not have the ball thrown at him. Maybe pitched, maybe handed-off, but not thrown at.

If you aren’t going to throw the ball to him he shouldn’t be on the field. Why don’t we at least try a deep ball to him once a game?

flying_scotsman2.0 · Post by **flying_scotsman2.0** » September 27th, 2021, 9:58 am

Elkaggie wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 9:50 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 8:51 am
I’m good with scarcer being on the field occasionally because he is crazy fast and sees the field as well as anyone. But he should not have the ball thrown at him. Maybe pitched, maybe handed-off, but not thrown at.
If you aren’t going to throw the ball to him he shouldn’t be on the field. Why don’t we at least try a deep ball to him once a game?

Sure, once or twice a game. But why not try to run a reverse with him at some point? Let him use his skillset.

Elkaggie · Post by **Elkaggie** » September 27th, 2021, 10:06 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 9:58 am

Elkaggie wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 9:50 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 8:51 am
I’m good with scarcer being on the field occasionally because he is crazy fast and sees the field as well as anyone. But he should not have the ball thrown at him. Maybe pitched, maybe handed-off, but not thrown at.
If you aren’t going to throw the ball to him he shouldn’t be on the field. Why don’t we at least try a deep ball to him once a game?
Sure, once or twice a game. But why not try to run a reverse with him at some point? Let him use his skillset.

Amen.

Post by **aggies22** » September 27th, 2021, 10:14 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 9:58 am

Elkaggie wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 9:50 am

flying_scotsman2.0 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 8:51 am
I’m good with scarcer being on the field occasionally because he is crazy fast and sees the field as well as anyone. But he should not have the ball thrown at him. Maybe pitched, maybe handed-off, but not thrown at.
If you aren’t going to throw the ball to him he shouldn’t be on the field. Why don’t we at least try a deep ball to him once a game?
Sure, once or twice a game. But why not try to run a reverse with him at some point? Let him use his skillset.

Perhaps? Boise wasn't shy about running reverses to Shakir. Whatever happened to the "jet sweep" that was so popular for a few years?

newhouse9 · Post by **newhouse9** » September 27th, 2021, 10:46 am

I'm likely wrong on this, but I see Savon as a really fast guy, who isn't that "quick." He doesn't seem twitchy at all to me, like Thompkins. I sure hope he gets a chance to pop some returns...those are so doggone fun and exciting, and he's great at returning kickoffs.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 27th, 2021, 10:47 am

Getting open, whether it is a simple underneath route or deep, requires much more than just speed. Otherwise, we'd just walk over to the track team and recruit the top 100 m sprinters.

DT is very fast, but so is every corner back in the nation. When he gets open deep is usually the combination of the route design, such as holding the safety with another route, and DT using guile and skill to get the DB to move one way or the other, or get him flat footed if just for a split second. In fact at Air Force, his bomb from Peasely was the result of getting him isolated on a safety if I recall correctly.

Scarver hasn't shown the ability to do any of this. He's just fast and just like having a QB who can fling it 65 yards, if he can't read a defense or throw accurately, then it really doesn't matter how strong his arm is.

hickaggie · Post by **hickaggie** » September 27th, 2021, 10:56 am

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 10:47 am
Getting open, whether it is a simple underneath route or deep, requires much more than just speed. Otherwise, we'd just walk over to the track team and recruit the top 100 m sprinters.

DT is very fast, but so is every corner back in the nation. When he gets open deep is usually the combination of the route design, such as holding the safety with another route, and DT using guile and skill to get the DB to move one way or the other, or get him flat footed if just for a split second. In fact at Air Force, his bomb from Peasely was the result of getting him isolated on a safety if I recall correctly.

Scarver hasn't shown the ability to do any of this. He's just fast and just like having a QB who can fling it 65 yards, if he can't read a defense or throw accurately, then it really doesn't matter how strong his arm is.

What is disappointing about this is that Scarver has shown that he has smooth vertical change of direction ability and elite speed so even if his cuts aren't as precise and hard as you would like he still should be effective with accurate routes, a nice swim move against press, and good head fake techniques at getting open deep especially when Tomkins draws basically bracketed coverage. It seemed like he was open a lot in limited play in the Love years but dropped several TDs.

GrandPoubah · Post by **GrandPoubah** » September 27th, 2021, 12:11 pm

I'm no expert on WRs, but I see that Scarver puts a LB or a DB on their backs 3-4 times a game and generally is locked up on blocks. Perhaps that is the reason?

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 27th, 2021, 12:44 pm

GrandPoubah wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 12:11 pm
I'm no expert on WRs, but I see that Scarver puts a LB or a DB on their backs 3-4 times a game and generally is locked up on blocks. Perhaps that is the reason?

That's good for a running play but what about passing plays where he can't catch the ball or get open consistently?

GrandPoubah · Post by **GrandPoubah** » September 27th, 2021, 12:55 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 12:44 pm

GrandPoubah wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 12:11 pm
I'm no expert on WRs, but I see that Scarver puts a LB or a DB on their backs 3-4 times a game and generally is locked up on blocks. Perhaps that is the reason?
That's good for a running play but what about passing plays where he can't catch the ball or get open consistently?

I don't disagree with you at all, but that would require substitutions. Currently, with coaches philosophy on the pace of our offense, how often do we sub? Maybe this will require a change, but I think because we don't sub, we go with a guy who we feel is the best every down receiver.

inconspicuous · Post by **inconspicuous** » September 27th, 2021, 1:06 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 12:44 pm

GrandPoubah wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 12:11 pm
I'm no expert on WRs, but I see that Scarver puts a LB or a DB on their backs 3-4 times a game and generally is locked up on blocks. Perhaps that is the reason?
That's good for a running play but what about passing plays where he can't catch the ball or get open consistently?

One thing that he does do is stretch the field even if he does not get open he will create space in the Defense for others to make plays, if you couple that with solid blocking (not just on runs but also downfield after a catch) this can certainly be a factor why the coaching staff is using him.
Not saying I agree or disagree just adding some context.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 27th, 2021, 1:18 pm

inconspicuous wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 1:06 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 12:44 pm

GrandPoubah wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 12:11 pm
I'm no expert on WRs, but I see that Scarver puts a LB or a DB on their backs 3-4 times a game and generally is locked up on blocks. Perhaps that is the reason?
That's good for a running play but what about passing plays where he can't catch the ball or get open consistently?
One thing that he does do is stretch the field even if he does not get open he will create space in the Defense for others to make plays, if you couple that with solid blocking (not just on runs but also downfield after a catch) this can certainly be a factor why the coaching staff is using him.
Not saying I agree or disagree just adding some context.

Even with his speed he doesn't get open and his hands are suspect. It has been this way for four years now. Defenses know this. If he can't get open then defenses will continue to cover him with one man and roll coverage toward Thompkins and Bowling making it harder for them to get open which is what BSU did the entire second half. I don't know about KVL but Nathan is just as fast as Scarver and has shown he can catch the ball while getting whacked over the middle.

CaptainChaos · Post by **CaptainChaos** » September 27th, 2021, 1:21 pm

I don't feel like WR is the position group to nitpick anyway...!? Sure our passing game in the redzone was not strong, but our entire offense in the redzone was not strong. We needed to break free on some plays but Boise had the speed in the backend to not allow this to happen. I think there are plenty of areas to improve, but I don't think we start with nitpicking what players are starting in arguably the strongest position group. I think we have larger issues to address like execution and discipline.

AggieFBObsession · Post by **AggieFBObsession** » September 27th, 2021, 1:32 pm

CaptainChaos wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 1:21 pm
I don't feel like WR is the position group to nitpick anyway...!? Sure our passing game in the redzone was not strong, but our entire offense in the redzone was not strong. We needed to break free on some plays but Boise had the speed in the backend to not allow this to happen. I think there are plenty of areas to improve, but I don't think we start with nitpicking what players are starting in arguably the strongest position group. I think we have larger issues to address like execution and discipline.

How about not getting penalized in the red zone for starters?

bull · Post by **bull** » September 27th, 2021, 2:40 pm

Yep it’s unanimous-Nathan over Scarver, and Tyler Jr should be getting way more reps. Who’s going to tell Blake?

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 27th, 2021, 5:05 pm

CaptainChaos wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 1:21 pm
I don't feel like WR is the position group to nitpick anyway...!? Sure our passing game in the redzone was not strong, but our entire offense in the redzone was not strong. We needed to break free on some plays but Boise had the speed in the backend to not allow this to happen. I think there are plenty of areas to improve, but I don't think we start with nitpicking what players are starting in arguably the strongest position group. I think we have larger issues to address like execution and discipline.

Four games into the season and two WR's are virtually invisible despite the attention Thompkins and to a lesser extent, Bowling, command. Teams will simply roll coverage over to DT, like Boise did, and force the non-producing receivers to do something they've yet to do, produce.

CaptainChaos · Post by **CaptainChaos** » September 27th, 2021, 5:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 5:05 pm

CaptainChaos wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 1:21 pm
I don't feel like WR is the position group to nitpick anyway...!? Sure our passing game in the redzone was not strong, but our entire offense in the redzone was not strong. We needed to break free on some plays but Boise had the speed in the backend to not allow this to happen. I think there are plenty of areas to improve, but I don't think we start with nitpicking what players are starting in arguably the strongest position group. I think we have larger issues to address like execution and discipline.
Four games into the season and two WR's are virtually invisible despite the attention Thompkins and to a lesser extent, Bowling, command. Teams will simply roll coverage over to DT, like Boise did, and force the non-producing receivers to do something they've yet to do, produce.

Even if this was our biggest problem there are things we could do like throw to the TE like they've done, or throw it to the back out of the backfield. I just think we have bigger problems then getting certain players off the field in our strongest position group. I don't see how changing Scarver for Nathan gets us a win against Boise. Lining Nathan up as our punter on the fake might have helped, but I disagree that the receiving corps is our problem right now. I don't see the benefit in stirring folks up and calling out specific players from this position group.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » September 27th, 2021, 6:03 pm

CaptainChaos wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 5:19 pm

FloridaAggie13 wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 5:05 pm

CaptainChaos wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 1:21 pm
I don't feel like WR is the position group to nitpick anyway...!? Sure our passing game in the redzone was not strong, but our entire offense in the redzone was not strong. We needed to break free on some plays but Boise had the speed in the backend to not allow this to happen. I think there are plenty of areas to improve, but I don't think we start with nitpicking what players are starting in arguably the strongest position group. I think we have larger issues to address like execution and discipline.
Four games into the season and two WR's are virtually invisible despite the attention Thompkins and to a lesser extent, Bowling, command. Teams will simply roll coverage over to DT, like Boise did, and force the non-producing receivers to do something they've yet to do, produce.
Even if this was our biggest problem there are things we could do like throw to the TE like they've done, or throw it to the back out of the backfield. I just think we have bigger problems then getting certain players off the field in our strongest position group. I don't see how changing Scarver for Nathan gets us a win against Boise. Lining Nathan up as our punter on the fake might have helped, but I disagree that the receiving corps is our problem right now. I don't see the benefit in stirring folks up and calling out specific players from this position group.

Agreed, we don't use the TE nearly enough. That alone could have helped keep the safeties from rolling onto DT and Bowling and you can bet future opponents will do the same. But the other two WR's are flat out non-existent and have been all year. Scarver has had four years and he still can't catch or get open consistently. I think he is a fantastic kick returner but a below average receiver.

TrueAG · Post by **TrueAG** » September 27th, 2021, 7:49 pm

Fielding punts inside the 5 is the only question about Nathan I am interested in.

Elkaggie · Post by **Elkaggie** » September 27th, 2021, 9:14 pm

BA said in the radio today that he should have let it bounce.

Blue Sage · Post by **Blue Sage** » September 27th, 2021, 11:13 pm

TrueAG wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 7:49 pm
Fielding punts inside the 5 is the only question about Nathan I am interested in.

Thought Nathan had a VERY nice return. Would love to see him on the field more!

BeNo · Post by **BeNo** » September 28th, 2021, 8:56 am

Blue Sage wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 11:13 pm

TrueAG wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2021, 7:49 pm
Fielding punts inside the 5 is the only question about Nathan I am interested in.
Thought Nathan had a VERY nice return. Would love to see him on the field more!

fake punt was 1000X more egregious than fielding the pump inside the 5.

newhouse9 · Post by **newhouse9** » September 28th, 2021, 10:44 am

I believe that most of our receivers would beat Scarver in a 10 yard race from a stop. Those first 10 yards are important in route running.

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