but it's not nec. the kind of publicity we want: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/utah-state ... 33161.html

I saw that… smh

Regardless of the bad press, It is sound advice. If it is advice that a young man needs to make him think about what he is doing and keep him out of potential hot water down the road (even if it was consensual at the time), is it a bad thing? He is right in saying the cards are stacked against the guy if the girl has feelings of guilt or regret later. Dudes should make sure they have all of the "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed before they seal the deal. Maybe the mistake the chief made was singling out Mormon girls because it isn't just limited to them.

Well they could have pulled that speech from 2005 through 2010 as well. It's the exact same one the police gave to us back then. Being of that faith I too counseled many of my team members about similar things. For the area I think it is good to know that. Now the other half of the article is more worrisome to me.

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Torrey Green's repeat offenses proved that the cards aren't stacked against someone at Utah State.

Please sandbox.

This wouldn't happen if hookup culture hadn't been accepted as the norm years ago. Alas, here we are. If I were trying to tell these guys how to be safe, I'd go in this order:

1. Don't rape anyone. If you rape someone, it will come to light and you will be kicked off the team and likely go to prison.
2. Don't have sex with a girl you barely know.
3. If you are going to have sex with a girl you barely know (also see: Rule #2), confirm consent.
4. Document confirmed consent. You know what's less sexy than having to document consent? Prison.
5. If alcohol is involved, documented consent still may not be enough. Ensure she isn't too drunk to consent.
6. Don't have sex with a girl you barely know.
7. Don't rape anyone, seriously. You will go to jail and ruin the future of at least two people.

YoungBloodAggie wrote: ↑

December 14th, 2021, 7:17 pm

This wouldn't happen if hookup culture hadn't been accepted as the norm years ago. Alas, here we are. If I were trying to tell these guys how to be safe, I'd go in this order:

1. Don't rape anyone. If you rape someone, it will come to light and you will be kicked off the team and likely go to prison.
2. Don't have sex with a girl you barely know.
3. If you are going to have sex with a girl you barely know (also see: Rule #2), confirm consent.
4. Document confirmed consent. You know what's less sexy than having to document consent? Prison.
5. If alcohol is involved, documented consent still may not be enough. Ensure she isn't too drunk to consent.
6. Don't have sex with a girl you barely know.
7. Don't rape anyone, seriously. You will go to jail and ruin the future of at least two people.

You are spot on. It really is not very complicated to stay out of trouble and not ruin your life or the life of someone else. Too many have to learn the hard way.

Nothing wrong with straight talk. Maybe it’s because I’ve had 3 daughters graduate from Utah State, but I like the idea of a campus that respects female safety. I’m not singling out the football team- I hope the police chief has the same talk to every male on campus.


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As a former LDS Bishop, I can tell you that this police chief, while well intentioned, is way off base in his approach. What he should be doing is telling football players (and all young men on campus for that matter) items 1-7 on YoungBloodAggie's list, especially items 1, 2, 6, and 7. and leave it at that, without castigating any race or religious creed. That's just not an appropriate way to go about this topic,

Consent is the bare minimum. Coach all young men that they should be looking for enthusiastic consent and participation. If there is any doubt, for any reason then err on the side of caution. There should never be a doubt for anyone involved or that knows those involved that both parties were enthusiastic participants.

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Agree with Aggies Forever. What he is saying could come across like "if you do this, you may get caught and blamed" rather than "you should not do this, it is wrong."

Very man-centric approach.

BigBlueAggie wrote: ↑

December 14th, 2021, 9:45 pm

Agree with Aggies Forever. What he is saying could come across like "if you do this, you may get caught and blamed" rather than "you should not do this, it is wrong."

Very man-centric approach.

Yep. The problem isn’t that it’s bad to teach players about consent, the problem is that the Chief sort of implied the allegations would be false but that the players’ goose would be cooked already anyway.

I’ve never understood why someone would get even close to the line on something like this. Gretsch is 100% right — enthusiastic consent should be the standard. I would go even further and say that it’s almost never a good idea to mix alcohol and sex.

It’s best to err on the side of caution not to avoid punishment for yourself, but to avoid lasting harm to another person.

Sorry I knew to many girls who would run around the Sigma nu house with their shirts off on Saturday then run to church on Sunday.

I mean he isn't wrong.

MWCFAN12 wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:25 am

Sorry I knew to many girls who would run around the Sigma nu house with their shirts off on Saturday then run to church on Sunday.

I mean he isn't wrong.

It’s not really about whether or not he is factually right or wrong about Mormon college girls’ sexual habits. It does not shock me at all that Mormon girls sleep around in college and regret it afterwards.

It would shock me if there’s a significant number of false sexual assault allegations at USU following the fact pattern described by the Chief.

The problem with his comments is that they suggest a culture of protecting the accused, and fit with the narrative that USU doesn’t take this stuff seriously.

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:43 am

MWCFAN12 wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:25 am

Sorry I knew to many girls who would run around the Sigma nu house with their shirts off on Saturday then run to church on Sunday.

I mean he isn't wrong.

It’s not really about whether or not he is factually right or wrong about Mormon college girls’ sexual habits. It does not shock me at all that Mormon girls sleep around in college and regret it afterwards.

It would shock me if there’s a significant number of false sexual assault allegations at USU following the fact pattern described by the Chief.

The problem with his comments is that they suggest a culture of protecting the accused, and fit with the narrative that USU doesn’t take this stuff seriously.

I agree. But you have no idea how much of that article is true. No idea what happen. Missing context. Only 1 side to the story. And her side to the story as some glaring holes in it.

Just cause USU could do things better doesn't mean that they are liable and at fault.

MWCFAN12 wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:50 am

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:43 am

MWCFAN12 wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:25 am

Sorry I knew to many girls who would run around the Sigma nu house with their shirts off on Saturday then run to church on Sunday.

I mean he isn't wrong.

It’s not really about whether or not he is factually right or wrong about Mormon college girls’ sexual habits. It does not shock me at all that Mormon girls sleep around in college and regret it afterwards.

It would shock me if there’s a significant number of false sexual assault allegations at USU following the fact pattern described by the Chief.

The problem with his comments is that they suggest a culture of protecting the accused, and fit with the narrative that USU doesn’t take this stuff seriously.

I agree. But you have no idea how much of that article is true. No idea what happen. Missing context. Only 1 side to the story. And her side to the story as some glaring holes in it.

Just cause USU could do things better doesn't mean that they are liable and at fault.

I’ve not meant to suggest USU is liable or at fault for anything, and I don’t have the information to even speak intelligently on that.

It’s just really bad optics is what I’m saying.

Did I miss the part of the article where BA was involved?

The easiest thing you can do in life is not rape someone.

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 7:58 am

One thing funny related to the USU Police and warnings is that on campus, you can skateboard to get from place to place, but you aren't allowed to stop places and do tricks on your skateboards, you have to keep all four wheels on the ground. But they give you a warning on the first offense, so technically, everyone has one warning to use and can do tricks and grind railings as much as they want until they use their one warning.

And I don't skateboard, so they can start citing on the first offense if they want.

Another thing that happens funny is people will try to give a false name the second time they are caught, but the fine for false info is alot higher than the fine for doing it a second time.

What the hell are you talking about?

YoungBloodAggie wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 8:00 am

GameFAQSAggie wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 7:58 am

One thing funny related to the USU Police and warnings is that on campus, you can skateboard to get from place to place, but you aren't allowed to stop places and do tricks on your skateboards, you have to keep all four wheels on the ground. But they give you a warning on the first offense, so technically, everyone has one warning to use and can do tricks and grind railings as much as they want until they use their one warning.

And I don't skateboard, so they can start citing on the first offense if they want.

Another thing that happens funny is people will try to give a false name the second time they are caught, but the fine for false info is alot higher than the fine for doing it a second time.

What the hell are you talking about?

He’s talking about skateboarding.

MWCFAN12 wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:25 am

Sorry I knew to many girls who would run around the Sigma nu house with their shirts off on Saturday then run to church on Sunday.

I mean he isn't wrong.

That isn't what he was saying. He is wrong. Running around with your shirt off, as you say it, has nothing to do with this at all. People making choices that aren't in line with the values they portray publicly is nothing new and honestly we all work on this one to some degree.

What he was saying is that this particular group is likely to give a false report. That is garbage.

GeoAg wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 8:20 am

MWCFAN12 wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:25 am

Sorry I knew to many girls who would run around the Sigma nu house with their shirts off on Saturday then run to church on Sunday.

I mean he isn't wrong.

That isn't what he was saying. He is wrong. Running around with your shirt off, as you say it, has nothing to do with this at all. People making choices that aren't in line with the value they portray publicly is nothing new and honestly we all work on this one to some degree.

What he was saying is that this particular group is likely to give a false report. That is garbage.

No excuse for the way he phrased it, but it's possible after a history of investigations over the years that they have found more false accusations come more often from LDS females

There is an issue with Title IX and due process. It's a big gap that needs to be reconciled but is incredibly difficult to do. We want to protect people from sex discrimination including and especially sexual assault but we also want to protect due process.

I can see what the USU Police chief may have meant. That there is shame about sex within the church and people should be aware that there could be issues where that shame turns to false accusations to relieve some of that shame.

I would be interested to know the fuller context- in a lot of these sit downs (like my org had with Budge of Logan PD) sometimes they are responding to certain questions. What if someone asked the police chief "Hey some of these LDS girls might do this" and his response was more on the lines of "There is some truth to false reports so what you can do about it now is to be careful with who you consent to have sex with. That can help you to avoid those false false accusations". Don't stick it into crazy is wise advice. However, I think the best route for the officer would be to not give wise advice because that isn't his job but instead just stick to "This is what we have to do if there is a report, this what the law is, etc."

Also, although there is a real issue with false claims based on regret- it certainly is not the primary issue. It is wise to be selective about sexual partners. But the biggest moral issue on this topic is the violent act of rape.

Although I think for most men "don't rape" is a given- lecturing me on "not raping" is the same as lecturing me on "not killing" or "the sky is blue" of course rape is evil. I know, and I think everyone knows rape is wrong. But we still have a massive problem with people being raped. If the officer didn't primarily focus on the real issue and instead focused on "false accusations" then I hope he resigns.

That article was terrible from the beginning. The first line states University of Utah's police chief.

Having said that it is probably good advice but should leave specific church out because accusations can come from anyone. As has been said above, protect yourself and don't leave any room for doubt.

AggiesForever wrote: ↑

December 14th, 2021, 7:37 pm

As a former LDS Bishop, I can tell you that this police chief, while well intentioned, is way off base in his approach. What he should be doing is telling football players (and all young men on campus for that matter) items 1-7 on YoungBloodAggie's list, especially items 1, 2, 6, and 7. and leave it at that, without castigating any race or religious creed. That's just not an appropriate way to go about this topic,

As a former LDS bishop outside of Utah, I think the chief's message was direct and clear and probably something most of the out-of-state or non-Mormon players would never have imagined, and thus needed to hear. He wouldn't have felt the need to give this message at a school that didn't have a predominantly Mormon student body. I couldn't see where he "castigated" anyone or any group -- just helped them understand the potential consequences of living among a self-described "peculiar people", and to govern themselves accordingly. The laughter and hollers that reportedly followed the message suggest to me that this seemed ridiculous to some players, as many of the things in both our beliefs and our practices seem ridiculous to outsiders.

OKAggie wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 9:56 am

AggiesForever wrote: ↑

December 14th, 2021, 7:37 pm

As a former LDS Bishop, I can tell you that this police chief, while well intentioned, is way off base in his approach. What he should be doing is telling football players (and all young men on campus for that matter) items 1-7 on YoungBloodAggie's list, especially items 1, 2, 6, and 7. and leave it at that, without castigating any race or religious creed. That's just not an appropriate way to go about this topic,

As a former LDS bishop outside of Utah, I think the chief's message was direct and clear and probably something most of the out-of-state or non-Mormon players would never have imagined, and thus needed to hear. He wouldn't have felt the need to give this message at a school that didn't have a predominantly Mormon student body. I couldn't see where he "castigated" anyone or any group -- just helped them understand the potential consequences of living among a self-described "peculiar people", and to govern themselves accordingly. The laughter and hollers that reportedly followed the message suggest to me that this seemed ridiculous to some players, as many of the things in both our beliefs and our practices seem ridiculous to outsiders.

I agree with this take, and would just advise everyone to wait for context before making conclusions one way or the other.
I also think having this discussion prior to the season is a sign that they are trying to address the issue of rape with regards to the football team. Seems like many want to only throw the transgressions of prior regimes out as evidence that the football team and university don't care about these victims. People lost their jobs over the Torrey Green situation. New protocols have been put in place. It's a work in progress about a concern (rape) that often involves more gray area than black and white facts when it comes to college kids.

GaryTakeTheWheel wrote: ↑

December 14th, 2021, 5:27 pm

Torrey Green's repeat offenses proved that the cards aren't stacked against someone at Utah State.

Please sandbox.

Agreed, can we merge with the other thread and move it, I'm sorry I posted here to begin with.

Has anyone seen an article with a link to the actual complaint in the lawsuit? I've not seen it linked in any of the articles. I'd be interested in reading it.

What I would love to see is the football team take it upon themselves to flip the script. Instead of being a group of young men frequently coming under suspicion, what if they became vocal champions of the victims, and in preventing sexual assault in the first place? Is that not a culture that could be instilled in that group? Could they not be taught how to do this, rather than just being taught how to stay out of trouble? What if young women on campus, instead of being wary of being around this group of people, sought them out when in trouble? I mean, I know I'm a hopeless idealist. But I just think that if you worked to instill that kind of culture you could overcome a lot of the issues being brought up.

BigBlueDart wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 12:45 pm

What I would love to see is the football team take it upon themselves to flip the script. Instead of being a group of young men frequently coming under suspicion, what if they became vocal champions of the victims, and in preventing sexual assault in the first place? Is that not a culture that could be instilled in that group? Could they not be taught how to do this, rather than just being taught how to stay out of trouble? What if young women on campus, instead of being wary of being around this group of people, sought them out when in trouble? I mean, I know I'm a hopeless idealist. But I just think that if you worked to instill that kind of culture you could overcome a lot of the issues being brought up.

That would be great, but unfortunately you're dealing with an age group constantly engaged in a hormonal game of chess.

hipsterdoofus21 wrote: ↑

December 15th, 2021, 1:24 pm

That would be great, but unfortunately you're dealing with an age group constantly engaged in a hormonal game of chess.

Acknowledged, but also perhaps why it would be all the more important to instill a culture of championing the victimized as it would help balance out those hormones.

It's majorly frustrating to me that the school and the team that we all love keeps coming up in these types of headlines, and more than anything the comments made by this officer show that there's still plenty of work to do.

What kind of message are you sending when a discussion about the dangers of sexual assault devolves into stereotyping women based on their religion and pointing fingers at which type of girl is more likely to falsely report a rape? I just don't get how that fits into the conversation, which should be a very cut and dry one.

If we can't trust our officers to be able to discuss these things in a mature, adult way with student-athletes, how on earth can we trust them to handle cases when they actually do come up?