Kingsley Holliday has been arrested for rape, aggravated kidnapping, forcible sodomy and distribution of a controlled substance.

Yikes!

Obviously we have to let the justice system take its course but if convicted he ruined his life at such a young age as well as the life alleged victim(s). I will never comprehend how people cannot stay out of trouble especially given the golden opportunity/ticket these players receive.

May he spend the rest of his days getting the same treatment behind bars.

Glad to hit this year's quota for rapists so quickly, not even into fall camp. Great we can continue our long tradition.

I don't care if the Aggies never win another game, they gotta fix this problem. Better students, better coaches, better admin, better culture. Top priority for next AD is to stop this pattern.

(I can't express myself without swearing) stupid

Disgusting, sad, and completely embarrassing. I don't know how this garbage continues to happen at the rate that it does, but it needs to change. Whatever rules and trainings are in place and whatever character vetting we're doing with this team is not nearly enough. I'm sick and tired of this (I can't express myself without swearing).

I am just shocked that when our coaches ask potential recruits if they are rapists and sex addicts, they keep answering no. You would think the players would be more open and honest during the recruiting process.

If a player has prior convictions for this sort of stuff, then yes, stay far away. I am not sure how the staff is supposed to evaluate a player's future propensity for sexual assault without a pre-existing history to find.

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 8:41 am

If a player has prior convictions for this sort of stuff, then yes, stay far away. I am not sure how the staff is supposed to evaluate a player's future propensity for sexual assault without a pre-existing history to find.

We passed on a wide receiver that was once under investigation for a sex crime but had also been exonerated.

ususports wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 8:33 am

I am just shocked that when our coaches ask potential recruits if they are rapists and sex addicts, they keep answering no. You would think the players would be more open and honest during the recruiting process.

ineptimusprime wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 8:41 am

If a player has prior convictions for this sort of stuff, then yes, stay far away. I am not sure how the staff is supposed to evaluate a player's future propensity for sexual assault without a pre-existing history to find.

Agreed, the coaches are not looking for players with solely sketchy pasts to bring in. I imagine the coaching staff is very diligent in looking at players past and making sure they are going to be good citizens in the community. If a player screws up it is on them not the coaches.

Obviously the only acceptable number of cases like this is zero. That said, I'm thoroughly convinced USU isn't markedly worse in this respect to most other NCAA football teams. We just follow it much more closely so we're aware of every case.

Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate commradere, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

trevordude wrote:Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate commradere, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

We don't. You just don't follow the news of other programs as closely so it's a sort of confirmation bias.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reading the report, he was initially accused in September of 2022. Why was he associated with the team this long, and why wasn’t he off the team immediately. (Maybe he was I’m just unaware) if he was allowed to be on the team, it might be time for Blake to go.

Welp, he never played a down last season and has been removed from the team's website.

Bullnamed_gus wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 11:28 am

Reading the report, he was initially accused in September of 2022. Why was he associated with the team this long, and why wasn’t he off the team immediately. (Maybe he was I’m just unaware) if he was allowed to be on the team, it might be time for Blake to go.

I do not condone what the player allegedly did whatsoever. At the same time, I would disagree with immediately kicking someone off of the team due to an accusation alone. Depending on the reliability of the accusation and strength of evidence coming out, I could be totally fine with a suspension or being allowed to practice without playing in games when it is at the accusation/investigation stage. But once arrested and charged, I am generally okay with kicking someone off the team or, at the very least, a suspension from all team participation.

Sexual assaults by college athletes, especially football players, is not just a USU problem but tragically happens at every college and university, even at holier-than-thou yBu. We hear about it more at USU because we pay attention more to USU than any other school. Another thought as to why we hear about it more is the possibility that USU tries to do less to sweep it under the rug from public knowledge than other schools.

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 10:29 am

Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate commradere, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

A quick google search of Utah football:

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes ... -football/
https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/for ... lt-charges

Now we certainly do seem to have our fair share of incidents and Torrey Green was both despicable and high profile, but I don't know that the data supports that we have more than other programs.

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 10:29 am

Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate comradery, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

USU really doesn't have any more of a problem with this than anywhere else. Many schools go to great lengths to cover it up, many "handlers" even pay for silence before it becomes public and then sweep the problem away. USU is a public school in a small college town.

The coaching staffs have come and gone, some have been more of a "players coach" than others, but whether it has been GA1.0/2.0, Matt Wells, or Blake at the helm - one thing is for certain, none of them put up with this type of behavior for even a second. It's hard to point to it being a culture problem when the culture has been changed numerous times. The problem is a people problem, particularly a young people problem. Too many have a lack of both respect and basic human decency. That is not specific to USU.

Bullnamed_gus wrote:Reading the report, he was initially accused in September of 2022. Why was he associated with the team this long, and why wasn’t he off the team immediately. (Maybe he was I’m just unaware) if he was allowed to be on the team, it might be time for Blake to go.

The article said the perpetrator was unknown at the time. Wonder if it took a minute to get a DNA sample from a suspect and get confirmed a match. The police usually are pretty quick to make an arrest as soon as they get that DNA match.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Madmartigan wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 1:21 pm

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 10:29 am

Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate commradere, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

A quick google search of Utah football:

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes ... -football/
https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/for ... lt-charges

Now we certainly do seem to have our fair share of incidents and Torrey Green was both despicable and high profile, but I don't know that the data supports that we have more than other programs.

I agree about the assessment. I guess having 1 rapist a year in a group of 90 young men is normal for the state. Sad

Aglicious wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 1:36 pm

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 10:29 am

Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate comradery, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

USU really doesn't have any more of a problem with this than anywhere else. Many schools go to great lengths to cover it up, many "handlers" even pay for silence before it becomes public and then sweep the problem away. USU is a public school in a small college town.

The coaching staffs have come and gone, some have been more of a "players coach" than others, but whether it has been GA1.0/2.0, Matt Wells, or Blake at the helm - one thing is for certain, none of them put up with this type of behavior for even a second. It's hard to point to it being a culture problem when the culture has been changed numerous times. The problem is a people problem, particularly a young people problem. Too many have a lack of both respect and basic human decency. That is not specific to USU.

Another thing that I wonder, and this wondering may be based on flawed assumptions. Are football players more likely to commit acts of violence than other athletes in non-contact sports? It seems they seem to commit more, though this might be because football teams are comprised of many more players than almost any other sport. I also wonder if CTE plays a role in any of these crimes. End MM musings.

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 2:55 pm

Madmartigan wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 1:21 pm

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 10:29 am

Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate commradere, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

A quick google search of Utah football:

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes ... -football/
https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/for ... lt-charges

Now we certainly do seem to have our fair share of incidents and Torrey Green was both despicable and high profile, but I don't know that the data supports that we have more than other programs.

I agree about the assessment. I guess having 1 rapist a year in a group of 90 young men is normal for the state. Sad

Sadly, there are probably a lot of schools that would welcome a 1 in 90 rate based on what they currently experience. I would venture that the actual abuse rate is likely higher outside of Utah because drinking, partying, and sexual activity are much more prevalent among students outside of Utah. Combining those activities is a great recipe for trouble of various types. Add in that too many star athletes are coddled through high school without having to face consequences for what they do just because they are a star athlete and there is a huge risk for trouble once they are in the college environment.

bwcrc wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 3:30 pm

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 2:55 pm

Madmartigan wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 1:21 pm

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 10:29 am

Why do all the rapists come to USU and not the other neighboring programs? Why are we winning the rapist beehive boot?

I get the player is the criminally accountable person, but I don't think certain 17-18 year olds are pre-determined to become rapists in the next five years.

I think the culture, the program expectations, communication, teammate commradere, can help deter this behavior. Not a 100% fix all, but USU has more than other programs it seems.

A quick google search of Utah football:

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes ... -football/
https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/for ... lt-charges

Now we certainly do seem to have our fair share of incidents and Torrey Green was both despicable and high profile, but I don't know that the data supports that we have more than other programs.

I agree about the assessment. I guess having 1 rapist a year in a group of 90 young men is normal for the state. Sad

Sadly, there are probably a lot of schools that would welcome a 1 in 90 rate based on what they currently experience. I would venture that the actual abuse rate is likely higher outside of Utah because drinking, partying, and sexual activity are much more prevalent among students outside of Utah. Combining those activities is a great recipe for trouble of various types. Add in that too many star athletes are coddled through high school without having to face consequences for what they do just because they are a star athlete and there is a huge risk for trouble once they are in the college environment.

by Aggie84025 » Yesterday, 9:23 pm

Obviously we have to let the justice system take its course but if convicted he ruined his life at such a young age as well as the life alleged victim(s). I will never comprehend how people cannot stay out of trouble especially given the golden opportunity/ticket these players receive.

Yeah, as noted, they often get in trouble because of the golden opportunity they receive. These are boys who, often from a young age, have been told that they are special. Parents, coaches, and administrators have run cover for them for most of their adolescent lives. Coaching staffs have recruited them by hooking them up with current players who take them to boozy, druggy parties, sometimes with official or unofficial athletic department "hostesses" (I'm reasonably sure that this doesn't happen at USU, but I'm absolutely positive it happens at almost every SEC school, and most other P5 conference schools.). And even if you tell them, "This is not tolerated here. If you do it, we will find out, and you will go to prison.", it's almost the mirror image of the NFL dream. Even though the odds are overwhelmingly against them, in their heart of hearts, every player thinks he can make it to the NFL. By the same token, they're all thinking, "I won't get caught..." Their frontal lobes don't fully mature until they are 25. They have incredibly poor decision making ability, and terrible impulse control to start with, and now it's been further corrupted by the "golden boy" syndrome.

I think you have to take off the kid gloves. Throw the fear of God into them. Point out specific instances of recent players who have been caught, and are now in prison. If possible, have videos from those players, explaining their circumstances, saying prison is really bad, and urging them to behave. Assure them that if they misbehave, they will be caught, and the least bad thing that will happen is their playing career will be over.

Even then, you're not going to eliminate the problem, because people, and especially star athletes under the age of 25, are no damned good.

bwcrc wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 12:36 pm

Bullnamed_gus wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 11:28 am

Reading the report, he was initially accused in September of 2022. Why was he associated with the team this long, and why wasn’t he off the team immediately. (Maybe he was I’m just unaware) if he was allowed to be on the team, it might be time for Blake to go.

I do not condone what the player allegedly did whatsoever. At the same time, I would disagree with immediately kicking someone off of the team due to an accusation alone. Depending on the reliability of the accusation and strength of evidence coming out, I could be totally fine with a suspension or being allowed to practice without playing in games when it is at the accusation/investigation stage. But once arrested and charged, I am generally okay with kicking someone off the team or, at the very least, a suspension from all team participation.

Sexual assaults by college athletes, especially football players, is not just a USU problem but tragically happens at every college and university, even at holier-than-thou yBu. We hear about it more at USU because we pay attention more to USU than any other school. Another thought as to why we hear about it more is the possibility that USU tries to do less to sweep it under the rug from public knowledge than other schools.

In spite of my "take no prisoners" inclination toward sexual assault by players, they still have to have due process, and a presumption of innocence. Remember the Duke Lacrosse team, and the bogus Rolling Stone/University of Virginia gang rape story. While false accusations are a tiny fraction of all accusations, they do happen. No one should want an innocent young man's life ruined by a false accusation.

shoresy wrote: ↑

July 10th, 2023, 10:45 pm

Disgusting, sad, and completely embarrassing. I don't know how this garbage continues to happen at the rate that it does, but it needs to change. Whatever rules and trainings are in place and whatever character vetting we're doing with this team is not nearly enough. I'm sick and tired of this (I can't express myself without swearing).

I’m curious why this player was not dismissed back in September. Par for hartwell and all his cover ups

Article about Georgia letting 11 players stay on the team with allegations

Could be bogus story, but it's out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is awful for the victims and embarrassing for players, coaches, and fans. USU now has a reputation for being Rape U.

It’s crazy over the 20 or so I’ve paid attention to aggie sports, the difference in criminal activity betwern football and basketball (and yes I understand football has like 8 basketball rosters)

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 2:55 pm

I agree about the assessment. I guess having 1 rapist a year in a group of 90 young men is normal for the state. Sad

I wish alleged sex crime offenders in USU FB were only 1 in 90. Like any university for every big case like this that gets coverage there are several incidents that either go unresolved and unnamed or get swept under the rug. USU is under a lot of scrutiny right now which both Hartwell and Cockett found out the hard way. I suppose the timing of yet another high profile case means it's less likely Bovee gets the AD job, but we'll find out in early Aug as Cantwell intends to move quickly.

LKGates wrote: ↑

July 11th, 2023, 5:04 pm

Coaching staffs have recruited them by hooking them up with current players who take them to boozy, druggy parties, sometimes with official or unofficial athletic department "hostesses" (I'm reasonably sure that this doesn't happen at USU, but I'm absolutely positive it happens at almost every SEC school, and most other P5 conference schools.).

At a former airline, we stayed at the same hotel in Los Angeles that USC would stay at the night before their home games. I hate to make assumptions based upon appearances, but it certainly seemed to most of us airline crew members that a lot of professional women accompanied the team members at the hotel.

Small update today: https://www.usu.edu/today/story/stateme ... nt-athlete

Not a lot of new info but summary is:

• This was an off-campus incident involving Holliday who was a walk-on
• USU was only made aware of the arrest on Monday
• USU was not previously made aware of any allegations or pending charges
• USU Athletics dismissed Holliday from the team immediately on Monday July 10th
• USU suspended Holliday as a student two days later on July 12th

So while the accusations may have been last September, North Park Police did not notify anyone at USU of the accusations until they had completed their investigation and were ready to move forward on Monday with an arrest and the charges.

Aglicious wrote: ↑

July 13th, 2023, 5:10 pm

Small update today: https://www.usu.edu/today/story/stateme ... nt-athlete

Not a lot of new info but summary is:

• This was an off-campus incident involving Holliday who was a walk-on
• USU was only made aware of the arrest on Monday
• USU was not previously made aware of any allegations or pending charges
• USU Athletics dismissed Holliday from the team immediately on Monday July 10th
• USU suspended Holliday as a student two days later on July 12th

So while the accusations may have been last September, North Park Police did not notify anyone at USU of the accusations until they had completed their investigation and were ready to move forward on Monday with an arrest and the charges.

So Our FB coaches knew nothing about this?? That is a terrible statement that I don't believe even for a second. He is still on the team. Scolly or walkon. Terrible blackeye in my opinion. Sounds like it finally came out and the coaches covered their butts by dumping his (I can't express myself without swearing).

trevordude wrote: ↑

July 10th, 2023, 10:37 pm

Glad to hit this year's quota for rapists so quickly, not even into fall camp. Great we can continue our long tradition.

I don't care if the Aggies never win another game, they gotta fix this problem. Better students, better coaches, better admin, better culture. Top priority for next AD is to stop this pattern.

(I can't express myself without swearing) stupid

My wife who doesn’t care about football noticed the large amount of cases compared to the other in state schools. If she noticed it, it is a major problem needing a fix,

Agezzz wrote: ↑

July 13th, 2023, 7:19 pm

Aglicious wrote: ↑

July 13th, 2023, 5:10 pm

Small update today: https://www.usu.edu/today/story/stateme ... nt-athlete

Not a lot of new info but summary is:

• This was an off-campus incident involving Holliday who was a walk-on
• USU was only made aware of the arrest on Monday
• USU was not previously made aware of any allegations or pending charges
• USU Athletics dismissed Holliday from the team immediately on Monday July 10th
• USU suspended Holliday as a student two days later on July 12th

So while the accusations may have been last September, North Park Police did not notify anyone at USU of the accusations until they had completed their investigation and were ready to move forward on Monday with an arrest and the charges.

So Our FB coaches knew nothing about this?? That is a terrible statement that I don't believe even for a second. He is still on the team. Scolly or walkon. Terrible blackeye in my opinion. Sounds like it finally came out and the coaches covered their butts by dumping his (I can't express myself without swearing).

So you don't believe the North Park Police when they said they did not inform any USU official of the allegations until their announcement on Monday?

You also expect the coaches to somehow be aware of every situation and detail in the life of 100 student athletes outside of their time on campus?

Let's just say for a moment that you are right and that the police did notify the school, the football staff, and the AD of the accusations prior to Monday. What are they to do? They can't act on accusations. Both the AD and school admin acted once there was something to act upon. Why is that seen as a black eye?