I listened to ESPN radio most of the morning as I was driving around and running errands, and there was a common topic on each show. The mockery of the MWC. Countless times it was brought up how the MWC rigged the rpi by playing non-div 1 teams and avoiding bad div 1 teams on their schedule to increase their rpi. The MWC is also something like 15-37 in the tourney since it was started and a handful of those wins were BYU's. UNLV seniors also went 0-4 in the tourney all four years.

A lot of other things were said but my point is, most people see the MWC as very overrated right now. The radio guys were just ripping the MWC and talking about how they never win the ncaa tournament and aren't that good. I admit to being one of those buying what the MWC was selling. After watching the UNLV and New Mexico games yesterday though, I am in full belief that USU can compete in this conference. Years like this year..they would struggle, but we all know that. Years like we are accustomed to Stew having though, USU could absolutely compete.

I now find myself thinking MJA and others were right. Also, if the MWC is so tough and so talented, where are all the NBA guys? Sure Anthony Bennett is supposed to be a top 10 pick but that is based off potential and he is just a 1 and done freshmen anyways. Outside of him I couldn't find any MWC players supposed to be drafted in the first round any year. There were more NBA players in the WAC on a usual basis.

swishh_15 wrote:The MWC is also something like 15-37 in the tourney since it was started and a handful of those wins were BYU's.

A very small percentage of those wins were from BYU. Jimmer's senior year was the only season that BYU won an NCAA game while they were in the MWC. I don't remember how many that won that year but 2-3 isn't very many.

We won't have to wait long to find out. Nine months from now we'll have a much better idea as to how we'll stack up with other MWC teams. I haven't seen anything in the tourney or otherwise that disuades me from believing we''ll be anything more than a middling team next year. I hope I'm wrong -- but we shall see.

No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

.... we wil be competing with them. Have fun with Grand Canyon my friend.

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC.

We finished 5th with half our team tied behind our back.

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

What evidence makes you think these overrated MWC teams would do that to these WAC teams?

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

I'm going to disagree with you. The MWC has some good talent and they are flashy but they are far from unbeatable like you tend to claim. How would we do if we had to play these teams:
South Dakota State
Air Force
Colorado
Illinois Chicago
Cal
Harvard
Utah

Because they each beat at least 1 of the teams that finished top 5 in the MWC. We aren't going to go in and dominate the MWC but to say that we can't be competitive with any of them is an ignorant statement.

ProvoAggie wrote:

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

I'm going to disagree with you. The MWC has some good talent and they are flashy but they are far from unbeatable like you tend to claim. How would we do if we had to play these teams:
South Dakota State
Air Force
Colorado
Illinois Chicago
Cal
Harvard
Utah

Because they each beat at least 1 of the teams that finished top 5 in the MWC. We aren't going to go in and dominate the MWC but to say that we can't be competitive with any of them is an ignorant statement.

You do realize that 4 of the 7 teams you listed Are in the NCAA tourney, with 2 of them advancing to the third round. Two others are in the CIT tourney and have advanced to the 2nd round. The average RPI of those teams was 94. Of those 7 teams, only Utah went to no postseason tourney -- similar to USU. USU would have gone 2-5 against those teams on a neutral court. If the Utah game would have been played at the end of the year, then 1-6, with the lone win against Illinois-Chicago, which did beat CSU in Illinois in Early December.

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

Frankie, Where would NMSU have finished if they had lost Bhullar, Watson, and Mullings for most of the WAC season, had Sy out for the year before the season, and then had 2 top Freshman recruits quit in December. Thought so. Dead last by a long shot.

Out of all the genius posts you've made this one has got to be the stupidest.

utaggies wrote:

ProvoAggie wrote:

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

I'm going to disagree with you. The MWC has some good talent and they are flashy but they are far from unbeatable like you tend to claim. How would we do if we had to play these teams:
South Dakota State
Air Force
Colorado
Illinois Chicago
Cal
Harvard
Utah

Because they each beat at least 1 of the teams that finished top 5 in the MWC. We aren't going to go in and dominate the MWC but to say that we can't be competitive with any of them is an ignorant statement.

You do realize that 4 of the 7 teams you listed Are in the NCAA tourney, with 2 of them advancing to the third round. Two others are in the CIT tourney and have advanced to the 2nd round. The average RPI of those teams was 94. Of those 7 teams, only Utah went to no postseason tourney -- similar to USU. USU would have gone 2-5 against those teams on a neutral court. If the Utah game would have been played at the end of the year, then 1-6, with the lone win against Illinois-Chicago, which did beat CSU in Illinois in Early December.

If we hadn't lost half of our team we would have been in the post season as well. Even losing half of our team we could have been in the CBI had we not said no. This year is a an anomaly but everyone keeps acting like we were playing with a full roster all year.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

ProvoAggie wrote:

utaggies wrote:

ProvoAggie wrote:

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

I'm going to disagree with you. The MWC has some good talent and they are flashy but they are far from unbeatable like you tend to claim. How would we do if we had to play these teams:
South Dakota State
Air Force
Colorado
Illinois Chicago
Cal
Harvard
Utah

Because they each beat at least 1 of the teams that finished top 5 in the MWC. We aren't going to go in and dominate the MWC but to say that we can't be competitive with any of them is an ignorant statement.

You do realize that 4 of the 7 teams you listed Are in the NCAA tourney, with 2 of them advancing to the third round. Two others are in the CIT tourney and have advanced to the 2nd round. The average RPI of those teams was 94. Of those 7 teams, only Utah went to no postseason tourney -- similar to USU. USU would have gone 2-5 against those teams on a neutral court. If the Utah game would have been played at the end of the year, then 1-6, with the lone win against Illinois-Chicago, which did beat CSU in Illinois in Early December.

If we hadn't lost half of our team we would have been in the post season as well. Even losing half of our team we could have been in the CBI had we not said no. This year is a an anomaly but everyone keeps acting like we were playing with a full roster all year.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I agree with you that the Aggies couldnhave played in a postseason tourney, had they wanted to. I believe we could have been in the CBI or the CIT. The average RPI of the former was 124. The average RPI of the latter was 153.

USU may have come into its own had Reed and Medlin not been injured. However, we were on a trajectory to finish with a conference record of 12-6 BEFORE their injuries. Maybe we would have done better than that but we were not world beaters even with them. It's hard saying whether Burger would have improved that projection. Certainly at the very least we would have had more horses in the stable allowing us to rotate players without wearing them out like we did.

ProvoAggie wrote:

utaggies wrote:

ProvoAggie wrote:

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

I'm going to disagree with you. The MWC has some good talent and they are flashy but they are far from unbeatable like you tend to claim. How would we do if we had to play these teams:
South Dakota State
Air Force
Colorado
Illinois Chicago
Cal
Harvard
Utah

Because they each beat at least 1 of the teams that finished top 5 in the MWC. We aren't going to go in and dominate the MWC but to say that we can't be competitive with any of them is an ignorant statement.

You do realize that 4 of the 7 teams you listed Are in the NCAA tourney, with 2 of them advancing to the third round. Two others are in the CIT tourney and have advanced to the 2nd round. The average RPI of those teams was 94. Of those 7 teams, only Utah went to no postseason tourney -- similar to USU. USU would have gone 2-5 against those teams on a neutral court. If the Utah game would have been played at the end of the year, then 1-6, with the lone win against Illinois-Chicago, which did beat CSU in Illinois in Early December.

If we hadn't lost half of our team we would have been in the post season as well. Even losing half of our team we could have been in the CBI had we not said no. This year is a an anomaly but everyone keeps acting like we were playing with a full roster all year.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Spot on Provo. Its getting rather annoying.

All I know is when BJC was in the WAC, they couldn't compete with us (as in they've never won a game in the Spectrum...ever). This notion we can't compete in a league where half our games will be in Logan and half the conference is the old WAC is just silly. It might take us a couple years, but we'll be right there (top third) sooner than many of you want to let yourselves believe.

Boise is basically the same team they were. This year's Boise team isn't better than the team they had a few years ago with the two good forwards (Nelson and Larry). They're better coached now, but Larry, Nelson and Coby Karl were great players. Then the year after Karl was gone they went 25-9, won the WACT and lost to Louisville in the first round as a 14-seed ('07-'08).

So here's Boise, with basically their second-best team in the past 10 years and they finished fifth and got in. As long as the past two years aren't the new USU normal, we'll be fine.

brownjeans wrote:Boise is basically the same team they were. This year's Boise team isn't better than the team they had a few years ago with the two good forwards (Nelson and Larry). They're better coached now, but Larry, Nelson and Coby Karl were great players. Then the year after Karl was gone they went 25-9, won the WACT and lost to Louisville in the first round as a 14-seed ('07-'08).

So here's Boise, with basically their second-best team in the past 10 years and they finished fifth and got in. As long as the past two years aren't the new USU normal, we'll be fine.

It cuts both ways. Nevada throttle us last year and won the WAC championship. They lost two seniors and returned everyone else including the conference POTY. They finished last in the MWC.

I think the Aggies will be competitive. But I think the jury is still out about how well they'll do. Talk to me next January.

utaggies wrote:

brownjeans wrote:Boise is basically the same team they were. This year's Boise team isn't better than the team they had a few years ago with the two good forwards (Nelson and Larry). They're better coached now, but Larry, Nelson and Coby Karl were great players. Then the year after Karl was gone they went 25-9, won the WACT and lost to Louisville in the first round as a 14-seed ('07-'08).

So here's Boise, with basically their second-best team in the past 10 years and they finished fifth and got in. As long as the past two years aren't the new USU normal, we'll be fine.

It cuts both ways. Nevada throttle us last year and won the WAC championship. They lost two seniors and returned everyone else including the conference POTY. They finished last in the MWC.

I think the Aggies will be competitive. But I think the jury is still out about how well they'll do. Talk to me next January.

Nevada throttled us? We lost 53-52 on the road and 78-71 at home with our worst team in the last decade. Nevada lost Czyz and Hunt, 2 very good post players, and literally had no one to replace them. Czyz and Hunt averaged a combined 24.1 ppg/16.2 rpg/2.7 bpg. This year they started Kevin Panzer and Cole Huff in their place, who averaged a combined 9.1 ppg/7.6 rpg/0.8 bpg

People think that just because Nevada only lost 2 players from last years team, and struggled so badly this year in the MWC that it signals the same fate for us. Did you watch them play this year? Their big men weren't even Big Sky level. They had no one to replace the 2 players they lost, and really outside of Story and Burton their team was terrible. Story and Burton were able to carry them at times if they got hot (combined to average 33 ppg), but that Nevada team wouldn't have even finished top 5 in the WAC this year... Nevada was rated worse in Sagarin than 5 WAC teams and 4 points worse than our depleted team.

Stop with the facts! It's way better to wallow in pity about our future.

That San Diego State win last night did a lot for the MWC I think. It needed it, and hey I am cheering hard for the MWC! I want this conference to have respect so it can get 4-5 teams in nearly every year. I think that game also should help improve that perception. But when you league champ loses to Harvard in a game of that magnitude..I'm still buying usu can absolutely compete.

I'm also not buying into this Nevada dominating the WAC and then being horrible in the MWC stuff. This year's Nevada team was not even good in the preseason. They lost to UC Irvine (rpi 125), Marshall (rpi 208), Drake (rpi 143), Pacific (rpi 97), and Oregon (rpi 48). They went 9-5 and had only 1 win over a team with an rpi in the top 150, which was a 3 point win over Washington (rpi 88).

Nevada started a slow fade when Fox left. These aren't the Wolf Pack you are looking for.

It has been hashed and rehashed -- and then re-rehashed.
* BSU and NM have pretty much their entire NCAA team returning and are stocked
* UNLV and SDS lose a couple of players each froM their NCAA teams but have shown the ability to reload satisfactorily
* CSU loses everyone
* Wyoming loses a couple but the Cowboys were not all that good this year anyway
* Nevada loses only 1 significant player but he (Story) was their best player. There is a question about Burton returning, too. But they couldn't do worse than they did this year.
* SJS? Meh
* Fresno St. loses a couple, but should be better
* AFA loses everyone, but these guys shouldn't be competing anyway ---- but they manage to do so regardless

Pre-season prognosticators will likely have USU finishing no better than 5th and likely 6th or 7th, where we will vie with Nevada, Fresno St., Wyoming and CSU. Will we be competitive? There's no question in my mind. Will we receive an NCAA invite? Unlikely. Our freshmen big men will most likely redshirt. Harris is a big question mark. Do we expect him to better than a healthy Reed? I don't. Otherwise we've essentially got the roster back that we had at the beginning of the year -- and we certainly were not world-beaters then, although our 14-1 record looked mighty gaudy.

I am optimistic about our future. I believe Stew will get back on track in his recruiting after a couple of down years. We can't help but get more stable regarding injuries and dropouts because it couldn't be worse than these last two years. In 3 years I think we'll be back to the NCAAs and competing at the top level of the conference. If we are doing so next year no one on this board will be more pleased than me.

I'm a little more bullish on this team than most of you. Our backcourt may not be the high flying types like the top Mountain West teams but Medlin and Butterfield with serviceable and experienced back-ups should be as goood a wing combo of anyone in the league. If Doc's ankles get fixed he is going to be solid and Roland seemed to get the hang of things at the end and will make a nice back up. With Berger, Moore, and Jean we have good size and experience with our backups.

The wild card will be the front court but Shaw should be a stud, Stone makes a bigger difference than we give him credit for, and if Clifford can play the way he's capable he will be more than a serviceable back-up. Davis seems like Stew's type and should provide some relief for Shaw on the Offensive end. If Harris could get healthy we would be solid.

That's a lot of ifs but we saw that UNLV and New Mexico can be beat by good system teams. Montgomery was Stew's mentor and Harvard played a lot like us.

I guess what I'm saying is on paper we got three very good scorers, a solid PG, and a lot of experienced depth who have played big minutes this year in Stew's system. We'll also be starting 3 seniors with 3 senior back-ups. If and that's a big if, things come together without the injuries we could be competing for top 4 and I think we'll get an NCAA bid. We have enough offensive firepower that our power forward just needs to be a good passer and rebounder and be able to put up 8-10 points a night and Davis seems to fit the bill.

I know there's plenty of counter points to be made her but I feel pretty good about this team. The next year is a different story as we'll lose 6 seniors and our top three scorers.

hickaggie wrote:I'm a little more bullish on this team than most of you. Our backcourt may not be the high flying types like the top Mountain West teams but Medlin and Butterfield with serviceable and experienced back-ups should be as goood a wing combo of anyone in the league. If Doc's ankles get fixed he is going to be solid and Roland seemed to get the hang of things at the end and will make a nice back up. With Berger, Moore, and Jean we have good size and experience with our backups.

The wild card will be the front court but Shaw should be a stud, Stone makes a bigger difference than we give him credit for, and if Clifford can play the way he's capable he will be more than a serviceable back-up. Davis seems like Stew's type and should provide some relief for Shaw on the Offensive end. If Harris could get healthy we would be solid.

That's a lot of ifs but we saw that UNLV and New Mexico can be beat by good system teams. Montgomery was Stew's mentor and Harvard played a lot like us.

I guess what I'm saying is on paper we got three very good scorers, a solid PG, and a lot of experienced depth who have played big minutes this year in Stew's system. We'll also be starting 3 seniors with 3 senior back-ups. If and that's a big if, things come together without the injuries we could be competing for top 4 and I think we'll get an NCAA bid. We have enough offensive firepower that our power forward just needs to be a good passer and rebounder and be able to put up 8-10 points a night and Davis seems to fit the bill.

I know there's plenty of counter points to be made her but I feel pretty good about this team. The next year is a different story as we'll lose 6 seniors and our top three scorers.

Good take

Also - having back the team we had at the start of the season I think is pretty good considering the experience they got to make them better next year. We are getting the same players, but the all have much more experience under their belts.

Chupamedia wrote:Also - having back the team we had at the start of the season I think is pretty good considering the experience they got to make them better next year. We are getting the same players, but the all have much more experience under their belts.

Exactly. People are overlooking that, IMO. Look at how much better the new guys played (ie. not Medlin and Reed) after they got comfortable, some confidence, and experience in the system. In the past, Stew's best players and teams were due to experience, and the last 2 seasons we've had very few returning players. Next year we will have plenty of returning experience.

As long as those guys who come back learn to set better screens and our shooters work harder to get open looks, we should do a lot better.

While I agree we have some talented players and I am excited about the upside of Doc and Moore these players haven't proven they can beat anybody who is any good. I hope that changes

NewMexicoStateOwnsUtahSt wrote:No way you guys can compete with those teams right now. You guys finished 5th in a very bad WAC. UNM, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Boise State would of trashed Louisiana Tech, Denver, NMSU, and UTA. So what makes you think you will suddenly compete with them when you couldn't even compete in the WAC. Come on, be realistic. Sheezzz.

Frank:
When the year starts we will be playing with the MWC and you of course, will be playing with yourself.