Really surprised BSU didn’t foul at end of regulation

jpswensen · Post by **jpswensen** » January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am

I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime

GeorgiaAggie · Post by **GeorgiaAggie** » January 29th, 2024, 8:07 am

You foul with a three point lead, not two. The previous Aggie possession is where BSU had a three point lead and possibly choose to foul. Uduje ended up making a two point basket anyway.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » January 29th, 2024, 8:20 am

BSU had us, but they couldn't finish it off by hitting their foul shots. I'm glad we hit our FTs at the end of the game to seal it.

AggieFBObsession · Post by **AggieFBObsession** » January 29th, 2024, 8:30 am

You're surprised by how BSU didn't foul out? Would it have anything to do with BSU getting homered by the refs by chance?

Aggie702 · Post by **Aggie702** » January 29th, 2024, 10:23 am

I don't think I've ever seen a team up 2 intentionally foul in an end game scenario. Yes when they are down 3 but not 2. Probably because of the risk of a 3 point play, or fouling is admitting you don't trust your defense to get a stop.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » January 29th, 2024, 10:29 am

YOu should never fould up only 2. If you are up 3 then i love the strategy of fouling with less than 15 seconds left.

jpswensen · Post by **jpswensen** » January 29th, 2024, 10:32 am

I know that the typical thought is not to foul up 2, butbut Martinez had him beat with no help defense. It was a layup. At least with a foul there is the chance he misses one.

Post by **aggies22** » January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime

Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.

AgTime · Post by **AgTime** » January 29th, 2024, 11:51 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime
Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.

Correct. Crazy lack of situational awareness.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » January 29th, 2024, 12:09 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 11:51 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime
Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.
Correct. Crazy lack of situational awareness.

Is it? Seems like the opposite to me. Worst case here, Ian scores and it goes to OT. In this scenario, Stanley's team enters OT with their top scorer. Best case, Ian misses and they win.

It's different if he fouls. Worst case, Ian gets the and-one, and the bozos lose right out. Best case: Martinez (a good FT shooter that is known to be clutch in high-pressure situations) goes to the line for a couple of FTs. It might tie the game. Or he might miss the second shot and Johnson/Great/whoever Coach Sprinkle has in gets a nice putback for the win.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like Stanley made the right call. It didn't turn out well, but it seems like the right one to me. He still put pressure on Ian; he wasn't letting him on by. If you'd have shown me a clip of Stanley pressuring Ian to the side, ending with where Ian jumped from for that layup, I would not have been confident we'd get that bucket.

AGGIEinIOWA · Post by **AGGIEinIOWA** » January 29th, 2024, 12:55 pm

What was Max Rice doing on that last play of regulation? Seemed like he had the best angle to get back on defense and stop an Aggie layup but he just kind of wanders around.

QuackAttackAggie · Post by **QuackAttackAggie** » January 29th, 2024, 1:47 pm

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:What was Max Rice doing on that last play of regulation? Seemed like he had the best angle to get back on defense and stop an Aggie layup but he just kind of wanders around.

His dad actually blamed Roddie for the basket saying he shouldn't have stepped up when the ft was taken and instead played defense.

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AgTime · Post by **AgTime** » January 29th, 2024, 2:00 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 12:09 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 11:51 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime
Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.
Correct. Crazy lack of situational awareness.
Is it? Seems like the opposite to me. Worst case here, Ian scores and it goes to OT. In this scenario, Stanley's team enters OT with their top scorer. Best case, Ian misses and they win.

It's different if he fouls. Worst case, Ian gets the and-one, and the bozos lose right out. Best case: Martinez (a good FT shooter that is known to be clutch in high-pressure situations) goes to the line for a couple of FTs. It might tie the game. Or he might miss the second shot and Johnson/Great/whoever Coach Sprinkle has in gets a nice putback for the win.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like Stanley made the right call. It didn't turn out well, but it seems like the right one to me. He still put pressure on Ian; he wasn't letting him on by. If you'd have shown me a clip of Stanley pressuring Ian to the side, ending with where Ian jumped from for that layup, I would not have been confident we'd get that bucket.

Or Stanley makes a play and they win the game. Right then and there. Foul trouble is irrelevant at that moment because you can turn out the lights. Not to mention we all know how it ended, and the strategy didn’t work ultimately.

I guess I don’t understand the conservative long play when I can take the win right now approach.

It’s not like Ian wasn’t going to get to the basket. He’d already turned the corner, so it’s not as if you’re forcing him into some contested jump shot you hope he misses. Stanley basically shut it down (he literally leaned back)and gave us an uncontested layup to go to OT.

Omar has the athleticism (and was in good enough position) to contest that shot at the rim for a block/miss (best case) or make him hit free throws at worst. Real likelihood the zebras swallow their whistles in that situation anyway. If it comes to it, I’ll take 2 pressure-packed must makes every time in that situation (even if I’m sending Steph Curry to the line). And you can’t worry about the lower percentage chance of an and and-1 when the tradeoff is a victory.

This feels similar to the also conservative “UNLV should have fouled us intentionally”, being up 4 with under 10 seconds argument some of you were trotting out here. I’ll also note we had a 4-point lead with 10 seconds left in OT in Boise on Saturday and elected to play it out. Thankfully.

Real Life Aggie · Post by **Real Life Aggie** » January 29th, 2024, 2:11 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 2:00 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 12:09 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 11:51 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime
Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.
Correct. Crazy lack of situational awareness.
Is it? Seems like the opposite to me. Worst case here, Ian scores and it goes to OT. In this scenario, Stanley's team enters OT with their top scorer. Best case, Ian misses and they win.

It's different if he fouls. Worst case, Ian gets the and-one, and the bozos lose right out. Best case: Martinez (a good FT shooter that is known to be clutch in high-pressure situations) goes to the line for a couple of FTs. It might tie the game. Or he might miss the second shot and Johnson/Great/whoever Coach Sprinkle has in gets a nice putback for the win.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like Stanley made the right call. It didn't turn out well, but it seems like the right one to me. He still put pressure on Ian; he wasn't letting him on by. If you'd have shown me a clip of Stanley pressuring Ian to the side, ending with where Ian jumped from for that layup, I would not have been confident we'd get that bucket.
Or Stanley makes a play and they win the game. Right then and there. Foul trouble is irrelevant at that moment because you can turn out the lights. Not to mention we all know how it ended, and the strategy didn’t work ultimately.

I guess I don’t understand the conservative long play when I can take the win right now approach.

It’s not like Ian wasn’t going to get to the basket. He’d already turned the corner, so it’s not as if you’re forcing him into some contested jump shot you hope he misses. Stanley basically shut it down (he literally leaned back)and gave us an uncontested layup to go to OT.

Omar has the athleticism (and was in good enough position) to contest that shot at the rim for a block/miss (best case) or make him hit free throws at worst. Real likelihood the zebras swallow their whistles in that situation anyway. If it comes to it, I’ll take 2 pressure-packed must makes every time in that situation (even if I’m sending Steph Curry to the line). And you can’t worry about the lower percentage chance of an and and-1 when the tradeoff is a victory.

This feels similar to the also conservative “UNLV should have fouled us intentionally”, being up 4 with under 10 seconds argument some of you were trotting out here. I’ll also note we had a 4-point lead with 10 seconds left in OT in Boise on Saturday and elected to play it out. Thankfully.

He DID make a play. Just not a risky one that would have fouled him out and sent a good FT shooter to the line.

It's not a conservative approach; it's a well-reasoned one. Just because he didn't go all-or-nothing doesn't mean it was tepid. He pressured Ian to the side. The clock was running. He forced Ian to take a difficult shot. And he did it all while not fouling out and putting Ian at the charity stripe. The man did good work.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » January 29th, 2024, 2:26 pm

Ian made a very athletic move to the basket. Stanley actually forced him fairly close the baseline and made the angle to get the layup more difficult. The lay up Ian made was not super easy.

Post by **treesap32** » January 29th, 2024, 2:34 pm

Fouling in that situation gives Utah State a chance (or multiple chances) to win the game. How often to we see players purposefully foul guys going for a layup and the layup goes in? If you foul too hard or pull the player down it could also be called an intentional foul giving them two shots and the ball.

I fully agree that Boise should've fouled when up 3 or 4 with limited time left, but up two with a guy nearly to the hoop for a layup, there's no way I would opt to foul.

QuackAttackAggie · Post by **QuackAttackAggie** » January 29th, 2024, 2:34 pm

Aggie84025 wrote:Ian made a very athletic move to the basket. Stanley actually forced him fairly close the baseline and made the angle to get the layup more difficult. The lay up Ian made was not super easy.

I expected it to miss for sure. Full speed and a tough angle

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AGGIEinIOWA · Post by **AGGIEinIOWA** » January 29th, 2024, 3:00 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote:
AGGIEinIOWA wrote:What was Max Rice doing on that last play of regulation? Seemed like he had the best angle to get back on defense and stop an Aggie layup but he just kind of wanders around.
His dad actually blamed Roddie for the basket saying he shouldn't have stepped up when the ft was taken and instead played defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I kind of wonder why they had anyone lined up to rebound the free throw. I see lots of teams in that situation leave the key empty and just set up your 1/2 court or 3/4 court defense to slow them down and prevent an easy bucket at the buzzer.

Aggie702 · Post by **Aggie702** » January 29th, 2024, 3:18 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 1:47 pm

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:What was Max Rice doing on that last play of regulation? Seemed like he had the best angle to get back on defense and stop an Aggie layup but he just kind of wanders around.
His dad actually blamed Roddie for the basket saying he shouldn't have stepped up when the ft was taken and instead played defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the replay, looks like Roddie was gambling the outlet would go to Darius. He steps up to guard him, but Isaac tossed it to Ian instead. If that pass is to Darius, Roddie would've been in great position to slow him down. Instead it went to Ian who had a clear path down the court. Roddie couldn't get back in time. Max was already back and just stopped at the top of the key lol.

AggieFBObsession · Post by **AggieFBObsession** » January 29th, 2024, 3:22 pm

aggies22 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime
Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.

You could make a strong argument that Stanley bumped him on the way up.

Aggie702 · Post by **Aggie702** » January 29th, 2024, 3:25 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 2:00 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 12:09 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 11:51 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime
Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.
Correct. Crazy lack of situational awareness.
Is it? Seems like the opposite to me. Worst case here, Ian scores and it goes to OT. In this scenario, Stanley's team enters OT with their top scorer. Best case, Ian misses and they win.

It's different if he fouls. Worst case, Ian gets the and-one, and the bozos lose right out. Best case: Martinez (a good FT shooter that is known to be clutch in high-pressure situations) goes to the line for a couple of FTs. It might tie the game. Or he might miss the second shot and Johnson/Great/whoever Coach Sprinkle has in gets a nice putback for the win.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like Stanley made the right call. It didn't turn out well, but it seems like the right one to me. He still put pressure on Ian; he wasn't letting him on by. If you'd have shown me a clip of Stanley pressuring Ian to the side, ending with where Ian jumped from for that layup, I would not have been confident we'd get that bucket.
Or Stanley makes a play and they win the game. Right then and there. Foul trouble is irrelevant at that moment because you can turn out the lights. Not to mention we all know how it ended, and the strategy didn’t work ultimately.

I guess I don’t understand the conservative long play when I can take the win right now approach.

It’s not like Ian wasn’t going to get to the basket. He’d already turned the corner, so it’s not as if you’re forcing him into some contested jump shot you hope he misses. Stanley basically shut it down (he literally leaned back)and gave us an uncontested layup to go to OT.

Omar has the athleticism (and was in good enough position) to contest that shot at the rim for a block/miss (best case) or make him hit free throws at worst. Real likelihood the zebras swallow their whistles in that situation anyway. If it comes to it, I’ll take 2 pressure-packed must makes every time in that situation (even if I’m sending Steph Curry to the line). And you can’t worry about the lower percentage chance of an and and-1 when the tradeoff is a victory.

This feels similar to the also conservative “UNLV should have fouled us intentionally”, being up 4 with under 10 seconds argument some of you were trotting out here. I’ll also note we had a 4-point lead with 10 seconds left in OT in Boise on Saturday and elected to play it out. Thankfully.

Here's the replay of that play for anyone that wants to revisit:

I've watched it a couple times and right as Ian gets past Omar, Omar seems to almost stumble or take a step that gets him slightly off balance for half a second (I think as a result of Ian sticking a hand out to create space and making brief contact with Omar) such that he couldn't gather himself to properly contest. I think if he doesn't have that awkward step there he goes to contest it. Once he stumbled he elected to back off.

Post by **aggies22** » January 29th, 2024, 4:01 pm

Aggie702 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 3:25 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 2:00 pm

Real Life Aggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 12:09 pm

AgTime wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 11:51 am

aggies22 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 10:43 am

jpswensen wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 7:59 am
I was for sure that once Martinez was inside the 3pt that the BSU guy would foul to deny the layup. Martinez is a good FT shooter, but there is chance he misses one and they win the game. Even if he makes 2 it is still going to overtime
Stanley let Ian skate to the basket because he had 4 fouls.
Correct. Crazy lack of situational awareness.
Is it? Seems like the opposite to me. Worst case here, Ian scores and it goes to OT. In this scenario, Stanley's team enters OT with their top scorer. Best case, Ian misses and they win.

It's different if he fouls. Worst case, Ian gets the and-one, and the bozos lose right out. Best case: Martinez (a good FT shooter that is known to be clutch in high-pressure situations) goes to the line for a couple of FTs. It might tie the game. Or he might miss the second shot and Johnson/Great/whoever Coach Sprinkle has in gets a nice putback for the win.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like Stanley made the right call. It didn't turn out well, but it seems like the right one to me. He still put pressure on Ian; he wasn't letting him on by. If you'd have shown me a clip of Stanley pressuring Ian to the side, ending with where Ian jumped from for that layup, I would not have been confident we'd get that bucket.
Or Stanley makes a play and they win the game. Right then and there. Foul trouble is irrelevant at that moment because you can turn out the lights. Not to mention we all know how it ended, and the strategy didn’t work ultimately.

I guess I don’t understand the conservative long play when I can take the win right now approach.

It’s not like Ian wasn’t going to get to the basket. He’d already turned the corner, so it’s not as if you’re forcing him into some contested jump shot you hope he misses. Stanley basically shut it down (he literally leaned back)and gave us an uncontested layup to go to OT.

Omar has the athleticism (and was in good enough position) to contest that shot at the rim for a block/miss (best case) or make him hit free throws at worst. Real likelihood the zebras swallow their whistles in that situation anyway. If it comes to it, I’ll take 2 pressure-packed must makes every time in that situation (even if I’m sending Steph Curry to the line). And you can’t worry about the lower percentage chance of an and and-1 when the tradeoff is a victory.

This feels similar to the also conservative “UNLV should have fouled us intentionally”, being up 4 with under 10 seconds argument some of you were trotting out here. I’ll also note we had a 4-point lead with 10 seconds left in OT in Boise on Saturday and elected to play it out. Thankfully.
Here's the replay of that play for anyone that wants to revisit:

I've watched it a couple times and right as Ian gets past Omar, Omar seems to almost stumble or take a step that gets him slightly off balance for half a second (I think as a result of Ian sticking a hand out to create space and making brief contact with Omar) such that he couldn't gather himself to properly contest. I think if he doesn't have that awkward step there he goes to contest it. Once he stumbled he elected to back off.

I don't think Stanley ever intended to fully defend Ian's drive.

AgTime · Post by **AgTime** » January 29th, 2024, 4:06 pm

Watching again, I agree it looks like Stanley stumbled. I’ll also say Ian’s athleticism is so elite it seems to sneak up on defenders. I’m now of the opinion, he’d blown by Omar to the point a contest at the rim was not in the cards.

nswaggie · Post by **nswaggie** » January 29th, 2024, 4:23 pm

Aggie702 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 3:18 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 1:47 pm

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:What was Max Rice doing on that last play of regulation? Seemed like he had the best angle to get back on defense and stop an Aggie layup but he just kind of wanders around.
His dad actually blamed Roddie for the basket saying he shouldn't have stepped up when the ft was taken and instead played defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On the replay, looks like Roddie was gambling the outlet would go to Darius. He steps up to guard him, but Isaac tossed it to Ian instead. If that pass is to Darius, Roddie would've been in great position to slow him down. Instead it went to Ian who had a clear path down the court. Roddie couldn't get back in time. Max was already back and just stopped at the top of the key lol.

Wonder if Isaac saw Roddie, and opted to go to Ian or if we just lucked out. Ian is probably our best option for coast to coast baskets with Darius and Falsev right there as well.

AGGIEinIOWA · Post by **AGGIEinIOWA** » January 29th, 2024, 4:26 pm

Falslev is also an amazing finisher.

Coloraggie · Post by **Coloraggie** » January 29th, 2024, 5:26 pm

nswaggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 4:23 pm

Aggie702 wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 3:18 pm

QuackAttackAggie wrote: ↑
January 29th, 2024, 1:47 pm

AGGIEinIOWA wrote:What was Max Rice doing on that last play of regulation? Seemed like he had the best angle to get back on defense and stop an Aggie layup but he just kind of wanders around.
His dad actually blamed Roddie for the basket saying he shouldn't have stepped up when the ft was taken and instead played defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On the replay, looks like Roddie was gambling the outlet would go to Darius. He steps up to guard him, but Isaac tossed it to Ian instead. If that pass is to Darius, Roddie would've been in great position to slow him down. Instead it went to Ian who had a clear path down the court. Roddie couldn't get back in time. Max was already back and just stopped at the top of the key lol.
Wonder if Isaac saw Roddie, and opted to go to Ian or if we just lucked out. Ian is probably our best option for coast to coast baskets with Darius and Falsev right there as well.

To me it looked like Johnson got the board and was double teamed and just trying to get it out. He couldn't see Brown because Degenhart was between them. He just barely squeezed it out to Ian who was the only one he could see.

Post by **treesap32** » January 30th, 2024, 9:09 am

Wow, horrible, horrible defense by Max Rice. Despite being furthest back on defense with the ability to stop the ball, he didn't even pay any attention to the ball at all and just stood there waiting for Great Osobor to come down the court. Really odd.

Post by **AGinNEIowa** » January 30th, 2024, 11:11 am

treesap32 wrote: ↑
January 30th, 2024, 9:09 am
Wow, horrible, horrible defense by Max Rice. Despite being furthest back on defense with the ability to stop the ball, he didn't even pay any attention to the ball at all and just stood there waiting for Great Osobor to come down the court. Really odd.

I just went and rewatched that play - Roddie Anderson also was just sauntering down the court guarding no body. He ended up about at the block opposite side of Martinez when the shot went up. Seems to me like had he hustled, he could have met IM and contested the shot a bit as well.

just really weird D all around, allowing an easy layup.

FloridaAggie13 · Post by **FloridaAggie13** » January 31st, 2024, 7:10 am

treesap32 wrote: ↑
January 30th, 2024, 9:09 am
Wow, horrible, horrible defense by Max Rice. Despite being furthest back on defense with the ability to stop the ball, he didn't even pay any attention to the ball at all and just stood there waiting for Great Osobor to come down the court. Really odd.

I watched it again after reading your comment and initially thought he was guarding against a kick out pass or at least looking for someone to box out. He did neither. Just kind of sauntered around. . I get it that he's not going to try to contest the shot at the basket, risking an and-one that costs them the game, but at least guard a perimeter player.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » January 31st, 2024, 7:53 am

I watched it again. Boise shouldn't have fouled. They should have gotten back on defense better.

Aggie84025 · Post by **Aggie84025** » January 31st, 2024, 1:38 pm

NVAggie wrote: ↑
January 31st, 2024, 7:53 am
I watched it again. Boise shouldn't have fouled. They should have gotten back on defense better.

In that situation for Boise i wonder if it would be better to not have anyone in the box to rebound. Put 2 or 3 people at half court to slow down the dribble or pass and the other 2 or 3 closer to the basket and in defensive position.

NVAggie · Post by **NVAggie** » January 31st, 2024, 2:29 pm

They took a gamble that they could get the rebound or slow the outlet pass. Isaac found Ian pretty quickly and it was off to the races. I think I would have pulled everyone back on defense.

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