Duryea: no more neutral site games with BYU

Post by **treesap32** » May 20th, 2016, 5:16 pm

ususports wrote:
GUS wrote:How come we are playing in Provo two years in a row? They should be coming up to Logan this year.
I am going to speculate on my question I asked earlier in this thread. Maybe the rumors are true that Utah is coming to Logan this year, and so TD wanted BYU to come to Logan next year instead of this year. We might be replacing BYU's home game need in Provo left by Utah breaking their contract.

Either that or BYU negotiated to start the new home and home at their place if we wanted out of the vivint game...

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hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » May 20th, 2016, 6:56 pm

SectionBAggie wrote:
Tetonkatest wrote:Can someone explain to me why the home-home-neutral was advantageous to BYU and unfair to USU?
It's a little complicated but it went something like this. We were in multi-year H-H agreement with BYU. The 2004-05 game was scheduled for Provo. During the off-season (not sure which), BYU contacted our AD and asked for a favor. They had over-scheduled for football and needed to cancel a game. We were on schedule for a fball game in Logan that year. (without editorializing) We countered with an offer that they play us in bball as an offset to the revenue hit we would take by giving up the home fball game. They agreed. So that year we played them H-H in the same season.

In that 04-05 season Dave Rose went nuts in the public about how unfair it was that they had to play in Logan 3 years in a row - 03-04, 04-05, and 05-06. And he sold their negotiation as a great injustice such that the mindless SL media bought into it that somehow Stew was unwilling to play on a fair field. The FACT that BYU asked for and agreed to the arrangement was lost in the frenzy.

So when it was time to renew the playing schedule starting the 07-08 season, Rose and Holmoe refused to accept a H-H arrangement because of the injustice that they had brought upon themselves. The teams didn't play that season. USU tried to get the H-H-N arrangement to go Provo-Logan-SL in the interest of equality. But BYU refused to sign unless it went Provo-SL-Logan - which once signed prevented byu from coming to Logan for 07-08, 08-09 and 09-10.

So although there are those who argue that SL is not a neutral court, having been to the games I would be inclined to say that the y had no significant (if any) crowd advantage. The unfairness discussion is based on the fact that they asked for and got what they wanted with a caveat they agreed to, then turned it into a significant marketing advantage as far as painting USU is a bad light, wrapping it up with several years of not coming to Logan - a financial hit to our bottom line. Had they agreed to an on-going H-H setup, we would have hosted a game in 08-09. It never happened.

It wasn't the pro-byu crowd in SL that made it unfair. It was their re-writing of history to their advantage which irked most of us.

Any game outside of the Spectrum during those years was a disadvantage to USU. Instead of playing in front of 10k crazed fans who were right on top of the opponent before tip off and on, we had 6-7k fans on one half of the Smelta Center.

Donman · Post by **Donman** » May 20th, 2016, 8:40 pm

In addition BYU had TV

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Post by **ProvoAggie** » May 20th, 2016, 9:29 pm

hipsterdoofus21 wrote:Any game outside of the Spectrum during those years was a disadvantage to USU. Instead of playing in front of 10k crazed fans who were right on top of the opponent before tip off and on, we had 6-7k fans on one half of the Smelta Center.

On the flip side, any game outside of the Marriott Center should be a disadvantage for BYU shouldn't it? The crowds at ESA were pretty even.

2004AG · Post by **2004AG** » May 20th, 2016, 9:33 pm

ProvoAggie wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:Any game outside of the Spectrum during those years was a disadvantage to USU. Instead of playing in front of 10k crazed fans who were right on top of the opponent before tip off and on, we had 6-7k fans on one half of the Smelta Center.
On the flip side, any game outside of the Marriott Center should be a disadvantage for BYU shouldn't it? The crowds at ESA were pretty even.

Dave Rose obviously thought it gave him an advantage or he wouldn't have insisted on playing there.

Post by **ProvoAggie** » May 20th, 2016, 9:35 pm

2004AG wrote:
ProvoAggie wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:Any game outside of the Spectrum during those years was a disadvantage to USU. Instead of playing in front of 10k crazed fans who were right on top of the opponent before tip off and on, we had 6-7k fans on one half of the Smelta Center.
On the flip side, any game outside of the Marriott Center should be a disadvantage for BYU shouldn't it? The crowds at ESA were pretty even.
Dave Rose obviously thought it gave him an advantage or he wouldn't have insisted on playing there.

Could have been but that isn't the only reason. As I mentioned earlier, the Marriott Center isn't available in part of December which forces them to play their each year. They've really struggled to get any one to play them there and especially quality teams. They need to play someone there and if it isn't us then it's probably going to be someone from the Big Sky.

OKAggie · Post by **OKAggie** » May 21st, 2016, 8:33 am

ProvoAggie wrote:
2004AG wrote:
ProvoAggie wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:Any game outside of the Spectrum during those years was a disadvantage to USU. Instead of playing in front of 10k crazed fans who were right on top of the opponent before tip off and on, we had 6-7k fans on one half of the Smelta Center.
On the flip side, any game outside of the Marriott Center should be a disadvantage for BYU shouldn't it? The crowds at ESA were pretty even.
Dave Rose obviously thought it gave him an advantage or he wouldn't have insisted on playing there.
Could have been but that isn't the only reason. As I mentioned earlier, the Marriott Center isn't available in part of December which forces them to play their each year. They've really struggled to get any one to play them there and especially quality teams. They need to play someone there and if it isn't us then it's probably going to be someone from the Big Sky.

Weird. What outranks BYU basketball in the Marriott Center?

Post by **ProvoAggie** » May 21st, 2016, 8:35 am

OKAggie wrote:
ProvoAggie wrote:
2004AG wrote:
ProvoAggie wrote:
hipsterdoofus21 wrote:Any game outside of the Spectrum during those years was a disadvantage to USU. Instead of playing in front of 10k crazed fans who were right on top of the opponent before tip off and on, we had 6-7k fans on one half of the Smelta Center.
On the flip side, any game outside of the Marriott Center should be a disadvantage for BYU shouldn't it? The crowds at ESA were pretty even.
Dave Rose obviously thought it gave him an advantage or he wouldn't have insisted on playing there.
Could have been but that isn't the only reason. As I mentioned earlier, the Marriott Center isn't available in part of December which forces them to play their each year. They've really struggled to get any one to play them there and especially quality teams. They need to play someone there and if it isn't us then it's probably going to be someone from the Big Sky.
Weird. What outranks BYU basketball in the Marriott Center?

They do some events there around Christmas. I know that Christmas Around The World takes it away for a little while.

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corio · Post by **corio** » May 21st, 2016, 10:07 am

ProvoAggie wrote:I didn't hate the games as much as everyone else on here does. I wish that we could have won at least one of them but ultimately they were a fun atmosphere and it's a shorter drive from Provo for me. That being said, I'm okay with them going away as well. There is definitely value in having the games played on campus.

+1 I feel like it was fun to watch the student sections battle it out. Probably because USU won those most of the time. Is it a moral victory? Yes. But it is a fun one.

GUS · Post by **GUS** » May 21st, 2016, 11:28 am

It's clear from the scores there that it was easier for byu to win in slc against the Aggies than in Logan. Another gripe I had about playing in slc was that the music played in the arena was byu's fight songs not USU's. I felt more like a home game for byu than a neutral game.

hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » May 21st, 2016, 12:11 pm

GUS wrote:It's clear from the scores there that it was easier for byu to win in slc against the Aggies than in Logan. Another gripe I had about playing in slc was that the music played in the arena was byu's fight songs not USU's. I felt more like a home game for byu than a neutral game.

This

Post by **ProvoAggie** » May 21st, 2016, 12:27 pm

I remember the games in Salt Lake showing both teams intros and playing both teams fight songs. It may have seemed more like a BYU home game because USU really needs to step up their game (pre-game intros) but overall it seemed pretty even in that regard. The fans were also pretty evenly divided and the USU fans were often times louder. Unfortunately we couldn't get a win but it would have happened eventually.

Post by **treesap32** » May 21st, 2016, 6:51 pm

They also started off with a prayer last time I went even though BYU claimed it was a neutral game.

I was talking to ProvoAggie and heard something faint over the loud speaker and realized some guy was out on the court praying. He was about halfway through his prayer by the time I even noticed. Weirdest thing ever. I think at least half of the Aggie fans didn't even know the prayer happened.

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dyedblue · Post by **dyedblue** » May 21st, 2016, 7:00 pm

The prayer was so awkward. BYU fans around me were so incensed that we showed no respect. None of us had a clue what was going on, it was not something that should have happened. Aside from that I didn't like the atmosphere and it was not a neutral game.

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ChicagoAggie · Post by **ChicagoAggie** » May 21st, 2016, 7:44 pm

dyedblue wrote:The prayer was so awkward. BYU fans around me were so incensed that we showed no respect. None of us had a clue what was going on, it was not something that should have happened. Aside from that I didn't like the atmosphere and it was not a neutral game.

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I think many on this board would have been fine with the prayer had they known it was part of the Mormon tradition??

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Post by **treesap32** » May 21st, 2016, 7:53 pm

ChicagoAggie wrote:
dyedblue wrote:The prayer was so awkward. BYU fans around me were so incensed that we showed no respect. None of us had a clue what was going on, it was not something that should have happened. Aside from that I didn't like the atmosphere and it was not a neutral game.

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I think many on this board would have been fine with the prayer had they known it was part of the Mormon tradition??

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It's not a Mormon tradition. It's a BYU home game tradition. So apparently it was a BYU home game.

ChicagoAggie · Post by **ChicagoAggie** » May 21st, 2016, 8:01 pm

treesap32 wrote:
ChicagoAggie wrote:
dyedblue wrote:The prayer was so awkward. BYU fans around me were so incensed that we showed no respect. None of us had a clue what was going on, it was not something that should have happened. Aside from that I didn't like the atmosphere and it was not a neutral game.

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I think many on this board would have been fine with the prayer had they known it was part of the Mormon tradition??

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It's not a Mormon tradition. It's a BYU home game tradition. So apparently it was a BYU home game.

And are you saying that most Utah State Mormons have a problem with the prayer??

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dyedblue · Post by **dyedblue** » May 21st, 2016, 8:03 pm

Yes. I did and I'm Mormon. Should not have happened. Should have at least been better announced.

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ChicagoAggie · Post by **ChicagoAggie** » May 21st, 2016, 8:05 pm

dyedblue wrote:Yes. I did and I'm Mormon. Should not have happened. Should have at least been better announced.

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I agree with you. And it should never happen at all in any governmental affair. Sorry to troll

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Post by **treesap32** » May 21st, 2016, 8:08 pm

I am Mormon and I don't say a prayer over a loud speaker to God immediately before playing sports. I pray in privacy or with my family or in church.

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dyedblue · Post by **dyedblue** » May 21st, 2016, 8:10 pm

I also hated getting yelled at for being some kind of heathen for cheering during the start of the prayer. Just not the right setting for a prayer.

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Jjoey52 · Post by **Jjoey52** » May 21st, 2016, 10:35 pm

I was there last time and this is the first time I heard of a prayer being said. I am as big on prayer as anyone but not at a neutral court setting.

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Maverik_Aggie · Post by **Maverik_Aggie** » May 21st, 2016, 11:01 pm

thansen wrote:I'm glad that we will only play home and home. I don't mind playing "neutral" games when they truly are "neutral" but I don't consider playing against Utah and BYU in SLC a "neutral" game. If they don't want to play home and home then I'm fine with not playing them at all. I wish that we would do the same in football.

It makes sense that Utah does not want to play home and home against us given that they have not won a single game in the Spectrum against us this Century. The last time they won in the Spectrum was 20 years ago. In fact, the last time (the only time) Coach KrystkoWACK (Crooked Larry) came to the Spectrum was in 2010 and we beat them 79-62. Utah knows that they will have a hell of a time getting a win in Logan and that's why they don't want to play us here. Having said all of this I have to admit that I'm baffled that Crooked Larry wouldn't want to take advantage of the home and home with us given that: we have not had a good team since the 2010-2011; our home winning record isn't what it use to be; and the Spectrum is not as loud or scary to play in as it used to be.

I've always had a dislike for BYU (mostly due to their exemplary sportsmanship and their ) but my dislike for Utah and Crooked Larry continues to grow.

I cant stand Krysko. What I hate the most about the U is they have a horrible attitude about being in the pac 12. I can't stand em! I hate BYU and Utah equally. For in-state games it's fair to do home and homes. Very simple. The U is just too stuck up for us. Screw them! I hope we never play them in anything. It's obvious they know when they come to Logan they know it's a much harder game than playing us in SLC. At least something I can respect of Coach Rose and TD is that they will do a home and home, which is the RIGHT thing to do. TD looks to be getting us good recruits, out of the gossner tournament (a joke of a tournament if we ever wanted out program to get better) and into a better invitational in Mexico

Maverik_Aggie · Post by **Maverik_Aggie** » May 21st, 2016, 11:02 pm

dyedblue wrote:Yes. I did and I'm Mormon. Should not have happened. Should have at least been better announced.

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+1

dyedblue · Post by **dyedblue** » May 21st, 2016, 11:07 pm

Jjoey52 wrote:I was there last time and this is the first time I heard of a prayer being said. I am as big on prayer as anyone but not at a neutral court setting.

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Pretty well discussed here.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30208&hilit=Prayer

Jjoey52 · Post by **Jjoey52** » May 22nd, 2016, 8:28 am

Dyed blue, just looked it over. I was not on the board at that time. Thx for the link.

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Imakeitrain · Post by **Imakeitrain** » May 22nd, 2016, 10:26 pm

The one ESA game I went to, I thought our fans were a bit louder. That being said:

The purpose of college basketball isn't to be "neutral", it's all about the crazy home courts on campus. Having a neutral site game for an in-state rivalry is less beneficial to everyone. In a 6 year period, you'd have 3 home games as opposed to 2- and this would also apply to BYU.

It's also frustrating that BYU fans will complain about everything that 18-22 year old fans do at every school in the country. If UNC/Duke were played at a neutral site, do you think there would be "F bombs", "middle fingers", etc? Yes. It's part of what intense rivalries are. The problem with BYU is, is that their fans cannot leave that stuff on the court. They let that stuff fester for years, and then make things extremely personal. For years they talked about the "double bird" at the football game. You know the saying "they're like a plunger, they keep bringing up old..."

thansen · Post by **thansen** » May 23rd, 2016, 8:34 am

Imakeitrain wrote:The one ESA game I went to, I thought our fans were a bit louder. That being said:

The purpose of college basketball isn't to be "neutral", it's all about the crazy home courts on campus. Having a neutral site game for an in-state rivalry is less beneficial to everyone. In a 6 year period, you'd have 3 home games as opposed to 2- and this would also apply to BYU.

It's also frustrating that BYU fans will complain about everything that 18-22 year old fans do at every school in the country. If UNC/Duke were played at a neutral site, do you think there would be "F bombs", "middle fingers", etc? Yes. It's part of what intense rivalries are. The problem with BYU is, is that their fans cannot leave that stuff on the court. They let that stuff fester for years, and then make things extremely personal. For years they talked about the "double bird" at the football game. You know the saying "they're like a plunger, they keep bringing up old..."

I think it's interesting how quickly BYU fans dismiss the unsportsman like conduct of their own players and fans (i.e. JD Falslev and other BYU players dropping the F-bomb; Jackson Emery sucker punching Brandon Taylor then yelling at him as he ran past him while he was laying on the floor; BYU Football players punching opposing players in the family jewells; Kai Nacua throwing a sucker punch to the back of an opposing player's head as he was being restrained by a coach; the Memphis Brawl; BYU fans throwing things at referees;Harvey Langi punching LaJuan Hunt; Bronson Kaufusi grabbing onto and rolling the leg of a Nebraska player after he was tackled and laying on the ground; etc.) and then complain about opposing teams fans and demand apologies.

aggiesdotcom · Post by **aggiesdotcom** » May 23rd, 2016, 9:44 am

thansen wrote:
Imakeitrain wrote:The one ESA game I went to, I thought our fans were a bit louder. That being said:

The purpose of college basketball isn't to be "neutral", it's all about the crazy home courts on campus. Having a neutral site game for an in-state rivalry is less beneficial to everyone. In a 6 year period, you'd have 3 home games as opposed to 2- and this would also apply to BYU.

It's also frustrating that BYU fans will complain about everything that 18-22 year old fans do at every school in the country. If UNC/Duke were played at a neutral site, do you think there would be "F bombs", "middle fingers", etc? Yes. It's part of what intense rivalries are. The problem with BYU is, is that their fans cannot leave that stuff on the court. They let that stuff fester for years, and then make things extremely personal. For years they talked about the "double bird" at the football game. You know the saying "they're like a plunger, they keep bringing up old..."
I think it's interesting how quickly BYU fans dismiss the unsportsman like conduct of their own players and fans (i.e. JD Falslev and other BYU players dropping the F-bomb; Jackson Emery succor punching Brandon Taylor then yelling at him as he ran past him while he was laying on the floor; BYU Football players punching opposing players in the family jewells; Kai Nacua throwing a succor punch to the back of an opposing player's head as he was being restrained by a coach; the Memphis Brawl; BYU fans throwing things at referees;Harvey Langi punching LaJuan Hunt; Bronson Kaufusi grabbing onto and rolling the leg of a Nebraska player after he was tackled and laying on the ground; etc.) and then complain about opposing teams fans and demand apologies.

The fans should know better and behave exactly how the opposing fans would want them to behave. Players are simple representatives of their institution and can get caught up in the emotional burden of that representation.

Jjoey52 · Post by **Jjoey52** » May 23rd, 2016, 11:21 am

Seems like you are trying to justify their behavior. BYU claims they are on a higher level than the schools they play. This arrogance draws even more attention to their fans and players obnoxious, boorish and sometimes violent behavior.

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Rabidchild · Post by **Rabidchild** » May 23rd, 2016, 5:37 pm

We should just go back to playing them home-home each season. I.e., one game in Logan and one game in Provo every year. There are several great reasons to do this, and no legitimate negatives that I can see.

hipsterdoofus21 · Post by **hipsterdoofus21** » May 24th, 2016, 10:50 am

Rabidchild wrote:We should just go back to playing them home-home each season. I.e., one game in Logan and one game in Provo every year. There are several great reasons to do this, and no legitimate negatives that I can see.

Agreed. Would also like to do this with Weber and Utah too.

Post by **ProvoAggie** » May 24th, 2016, 11:45 am

hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
Rabidchild wrote:We should just go back to playing them home-home each season. I.e., one game in Logan and one game in Provo every year. There are several great reasons to do this, and no legitimate negatives that I can see.
Agreed. Would also like to do this with Weber and Utah too.

I agree. Right now we are filling out our schedule with teams we have no interest in. This would provide 6 games each year (3 at home) with pretty high fan interest and decent RPIs most years.

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Post by **treesap32** » May 24th, 2016, 12:44 pm

hipsterdoofus21 wrote:
Rabidchild wrote:We should just go back to playing them home-home each season. I.e., one game in Logan and one game in Provo every year. There are several great reasons to do this, and no legitimate negatives that I can see.
Agreed. Would also like to do this with Weber and Utah too.

We get a total of 9 non-conference games and 1 exempt tournament per season in addition to our 18 game conference schedule. If we scheduled an in-season home and home with BYU and Weber that would use up 4 of those slots right off the bat leaving 5 available for other games. I'm guessing it would look something like this most years:

1 - BYU Home
2 - BYU Away
3 - Weber Home
4 - Weber Away
5 - MW / MVC Challenge Opponent
6 - Utah Valley
7 - Division II cupcake
8 - Big West / WCC Opponent like Irvine, Santa Clara, UCSB, etc
9 - Money game or 2/1 game against P5 school like Duke, Mississippi State, or USC
10 - Exempt Tournament

I'd be ok with that schedule. I don't know if Weber of BYU would be interested. I think Weber would.

If you tossed Utah in (which will never happen) we'd pretty much have our schedule complete every year without any effort on our part (except for identifying a Sacrificial Division II lamb to bring in to the Spectrum).

dyedblue · Post by **dyedblue** » May 24th, 2016, 12:48 pm

I like it Tree, you just need to add in a return game each year for the 2-1.

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